Full concept MODIFICATION of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat that touches every game aspect including textures, sfx, music, weapons, A.I., items, weather, mutants, difficulty and much much more!

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Know your ammo
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Erik313
Erik313

So it's kind of like Metro 2033 then?

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trojanuch Creator
trojanuch

Similar to some degree but in Metro bullets only differ in damage - with 'pre-war' ones being generally much more stronger vs everything.

Our system is somewhat more complex as we have two equally important factors: 'armor penetration' which sth else that 'damage' (there are two also different 'protection' types vs them present) and we balance our ammo using the combination of these two.

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WastedSky
WastedSky

Please add more snipers are just a few in misery /:

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DeltaForce95
DeltaForce95

i hope you do realize that "carbine" rounds and "pistol rounds" both use lead thus are equally effective against animals
if it wasn't so many folks wouldn't use 5.56 and .308 to hunt pigs in the south

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SlayerX3
SlayerX3

Well placed shots
Seldom use of automatic fire
Shooting only when you are sure the shots will hit
Have no more than 3 guns on your inventory each for a specific purposes depending of you game style (Sniper Rifle, Pistol and either Assault Rifle or Shotgun for me)
Scavenge ammo whenever possible, even for guns you aren't using, they might become useful later
If you can't find the ammo you need, buy it whenever possible.
Ammo worth more than money in the Zone, money can only buy you things, bullets lets you either survive or give you more things to get money.

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trojanuch Creator
trojanuch

Yep - thats basically it.

Looks like you will have a heads-up in our gameplay :)

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5thHorseman
5thHorseman

The logic is undeniable.

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Dave.
Dave.

I hope it will be still fun to play with less ammo..a more challenging zone is perfectly fine but it should not be unfair.

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N.Aaroe Author
N.Aaroe

There is not less ammunition ressources in version 2.0 than what was available in version 1.1

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bloodsuckersnsnorks
bloodsuckersnsnorks

That also goes to my concern about the zombies. During my last play-through a lone zombie with a ak74u can solo a chimera yet still have enough to take me on afterwards. Not to mention the above photo shows that the human body can be disabled with a few well placed shots even if the guy in question feels no pain. Just food for thought :/

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trojanuch Creator
trojanuch

Current zombie setting can be viewed in this movie:
Moddb.com

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AoXo
AoXo

"There is not less ammunition ressources in version 2.0 than what was available in version 1.1"

Well that's a shame. I know it makes no sense for NPC's to be unloading mag after mag on you and then die with only a handfull of rounds left, but the idea of scavenging, especially if there is more emphasis on round types and enemy armour, seems really negelected here. I would find it way more exciting if I had to VERY carefully choose who I engage based on their weapons and mine.

For example, if I see a guy carrying a gun that uses ammo different to my own, why would I target him? Or, perhaps I am not attached to my gun and would prefer to ditch my own for his in the hopes he is using a gun with more common ammo.

It seems to me, once again, that ammo will either be really common (thanks to everyone having guns), or really expensive (thanks to traders having so little stock at such high prices). It's like there's no middle ground where I actually get to make a choice. Even if I have the money there's little stock, and ignoring that I can probbaly very easily find it by killing people.

*Shrugs*

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trojanuch Creator
trojanuch

Aaroe's stated that its not less than in v1.1 - he never said wheter its going to be larger :)

Its all depended on type: 'soft' ammo is in fact affordable and available in reasonable quantity. Its also effective vs most mutants and lighter-armored NPCs.

AP ammo on the contrary is expensive and available in much lower supply but we consider it sort of a 'specialized tool' for efficient vs NPC combat. You'll often want to load this 6 AP bullets you have to your weapon - as they can drop you 2 enemies fast with well placed shots (and dropping enemies fast is generally good as you can get behind the cover again).

On top of all that - trader supply system is progressive so you get to purchase more of every commodity in later stages of the game when things get more tense (besides you need to be able to gather a good stock for Pripyat mission).

Oh - and btw - NPCs do no longer shoot thousands of ammo rounds all around - beside hunter teams they ignore mutants at longer distances and only attack if a pack gets too close (so they are much more defensively oriented in this regard). We've also tweaked mutant AI so that they behave more like in SoC - being able to get scared and run away if wounded or overpowered (this is of course depended on species).

This leads to a situation in which often one or two bullets are fired (either by you or NPCs) just to scare the pig or two off so that you can proceed with your main objective for a given trip.

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Drag0
Drag0

I'd solve this little ammo problem by carrying a pistol with hollow-point ammo for those pesky mutants and primary weapon, assault rifle with AP rounds.

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N.Aaroe Author
N.Aaroe

Exactly, the use of pistols are somewhat more important now in this way.
A splendid thing if you ask me 'cause I like to use handguns.

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harry80
harry80

... and that is why I hope you implemented 357Magnum or 44Magnum ammo for the revolver and the Desert Eagle :)

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TheUnbeholden
TheUnbeholden

Yes, wow that would be a very rare super powerful option for those lucky enough to find it. In conjunction with the already rare revolver and desert eagle.

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harry80
harry80

And maybe a shotgun as backup weapon...

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C-Savage
C-Savage

excelent, im a Gunsmith in RL and I think this will make for a great addition to realism.. If you shoot a hog with a high velocity bullet made for penetrating it will tear right through it.. the hog may die.. but not as soon as you need it to lol.. on the other hand a bullet that expands on impact and transfers all its energy into the target will stop just about anything but is ineffective against body armor... broken ribs is about all your target will get.. keep up the good work.. and @bloodsuckersnorks military 5.56x45 M855 ball ammunition is a FMJ round with tungsten followed by a lead kicker... its made to punch through targets.. the same with 5.45

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bloodsuckersnsnorks
bloodsuckersnsnorks

I see I see. :/ be nice if there was more ammo variety in this case then. Just curious, I thought the 5.45 AP (in game kind) used hardened steel core instead of tungsten (and the regular 5.45 using mild steel? And also what kind of difference does a copper core (such as the m855a1) have on ballistics?

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C-Savage
C-Savage

u mead copper jacket and lead core? correct me if I am wrong (just dont sound like my wife lol) if thats the case it would provide great expansion but medium to poor penetration.. depending on the way the round is jackated it could penetrate up to 4 or 5" before expanding which would allow it to transfer all energy to the core of the targeg making it very effective against unarmored targets

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Wolfy17
Wolfy17

N.Aaroe if you are going to add new ammo types, what about handloads?
Many Stalkers would use simple handmade dum-dum for great stoping power and Stalkers like Cardan or Nitro could be able of making complex handloads.
But that's for 2.5 3.0 :).
I could give you a couple of examples of handloads for ingame calibers if you want.

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TheUnbeholden
TheUnbeholden

YES YES YES, realism in a STALKER game? Where have you been all my life.

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Swirekster
Swirekster

about ammo...
Ammo.ar15.com

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harry80
harry80

Thank you so much. I love this site.

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alexeistukov87
alexeistukov87

Ganges17 - handloading is cool feature for the future. It will only require a loading machine in inventory or a workbench for a correct work for the game system. But it would make ammo system more complicated. Modders would have to create different cases, shells, capsules, powder sorts, projectile types + write many custom handmade ammo types like bullets with reduced/increased powder weight. I think it will make inventory full of many useless things and usefulness/complexity ratio is pretty low.
However, I think it's possible to create much more simplier system. Like conversion of rifle bullets (which have AP effect by default) to anti-personnel bullets (simply cut down the sharp end of projectile with a file and make proj. blunt) but with serious penalties to reach, aerodynamics and accuracy.

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Wolfy17
Wolfy17

It is a way to take original round and add "modifiers" in-game? If not you could just copy 5.45x39 that is in the game and modify it + slight change of inventory sprite(other colour is enought).
Anyway that's more for an addon of some sort, optional or made by fan.

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ShotgunSurgeon
ShotgunSurgeon

Why are the rounds .300 AAC Blackouts? Is this ammo going to be included? I hope so:) Here's a link to the designer's site: 300aacblackout.com

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harry80
harry80

I think that is 9x39. I hope I´m wrong. I would like to see .300 AAC Blackout in the game.

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C-Savage
C-Savage

very overrated round for practical use... AAC is a great company.. and for subsonic suppresed shots it would be almost completely silent... but the ballistics are way overrated by the charts then how it performs in RL

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ShotgunSurgeon
ShotgunSurgeon

I was kinda hoping for a NATO equivalent of the VSS & VAL. Short range, quiet thumping round. Rare, precious, but you can swap from 5.56 to your quieter sniping rounds on your AR.

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harry80
harry80

aac honey badger :)

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ShotgunSurgeon
ShotgunSurgeon

9x39 has a much greater taper. Definitely .300 AAC.

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boredgunner
boredgunner

Well this confirms it. Before playing Misery 2.0, I will immediately change weapon and bullet stats.

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Mattressi
Mattressi

Would you mind uploading a minimod of your changed stats when/if you do? I really don't like the sound of this ammo system. They make it sound like pistols will be more effective against unarmored targets than rifles. If this were the case, CQC weapons like the M4 would be almost useless, when most enemy combatants nowadays are unarmored and soldiers could simply carry handguns for "stopping power" up close and use longer rifles like the M16 for long range.

The "power" of a round is not solely determined by the diameter of the bullet - the velocity and weight of the bullet is also important. Hard-hitting "manstoppers" like .308/7.62x51 are obviously smaller in diameter than even handgun rounds typically derided as "weak", such as the .32 ACP. The reason these rifle rounds are regarded as much better at quickly putting someone down is their velocity (and, to an extent, their weight). I won't go into the pseudoscience that is modern terminal ballistics (hydrostatic shock, temporary cavity size, etc), but it is clear that high velocity "small" (relative to handgun bullet diameter) bullets are much better at stopping people from fighting back when shot, than are handgun bullets.
This is also completely ignoring that 7.62x51, 7.62x54R and many other military calibers typically do not come with steel cores or other 'armor piercing' materials - and that all other rifle calibers also have common lead-core FMJ (and hollowpoint) variants.

Truthfully, handguns don't serve much of a purpose in an outdoor setting (other than personal carry in peacetime). Indoors, they are often superior to longer weapons simply because of their maneuverability.

So, if someone could make a quick mini-mod to fix it so that pistols aren't magical all-powerful weapons (or worse - rifles being weak weapons) when this new update comes out, I would be really appreciative.

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boredgunner
boredgunner

I will. I did the same for Misery 1. I'll release it as an addon.

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predcon
predcon

For reference, a .22LR bullet (not the whole cartridge) is roughly 5.6mm in diameter. So a 5.56mm NATO or 5.45x39mm bullet is little bigger, if at all, than a .22 rimfire bullet, but is packed with a lot more powder.

Further comparisons (discounting cases):

9mm to .38 caliber (including, but not limited to .380ACP, .357 Magnum)
10MM to .40S&W (for all intents and purposes these two are identical, one just has a shorter case)

12.7x108mm to .50BMG

The thing to remember is that the closer a 'caliber' is to 1.0, the closer it is to one inch in diameter. Shotgun gauges are the same in principle. A 'gauge' is a fraction of one pound of weight. That is, a 12ga is a barrel that a 1/12-pound lead sphere can fit into, and a 10ga will fit a 1/10-pound lead sphere. However, a .410 'bore' shotgun shell is analogous to a 68ga shell (if such a thing existed).

.22LR and .410 bore cartridges are more often than not used in 'survival' rifles. A prime example would be the M6 Scout survival weapon, manufactured by ČZUB. It's a combination of a .22LR and .410 bore, the latter barrel slung underneath the former.

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boredgunner
boredgunner

Desert Eagle still uses .45ACP even though .357 is in the mod? Easy fix, thanks!

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Description

In MISERY 2.0 the type of ammunition plays a bigger role.
Basically you must always pay attention to the type of round that you have chambered or packed away in your backpack.

Mutants will charge you almost unharmed if you spray them with small caliber armour piercing rounds as they tunnel right through them. But are stopped effectively with large caliber soft metal rounds that inflict severe damage in their unarmoured stature.

An armoured soldier is almost impossible to take down from afar if you land your hollow point rounds in his plated torso or other armoured areas. Use armour piercing rounds and they will cut through his bullet proof vest like darts through butter.

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