Full concept MODIFICATION of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat that touches every game aspect including textures, sfx, music, weapons, A.I., items, weather, mutants, difficulty and much more!

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Ideas for weapon realism (Misery 3.0?) My Thanks for an awesome experience in Misery 1.2 (Mods : MISERY : Forum : General subjects : Ideas for weapon realism (Misery 3.0?) My Thanks for an awesome experience in Misery 1.2) Post Reply
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Apr 2 2013, 1:03pm Anchor

Just finished Misery 1.2 and love it, looks like 2.0 will be even better.:DThanks so Much guys for taking the time and effort to make this thing!
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I've got a few observations/ideas on more realistic/balanced weaponry from playing misery, but with 2.0 looking very good these might be more relevant to a potential 2.1 or 3.0.
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Particular balance problem comes from the difference between the beginning of the game and after you have been to Jupiter for a while (mid game). There is a sudden drastic drop in difficulty after you get certain weapons, and because of the mechanics of the game it kind of forces you to use certain weapons from then on. SPAS or any auto shotty are beasts and a bit O.P. as ammo is so common. FN FAL PARA is awesome but way O.P. The AKM is also incredible early on but ammo is expensive so it balances better (it really shouldn't be so expensive - better if power was decreased IMHO as 7.62x39 is actually just a bit more destructive than 5.56 and much weaker than 7.62x51 or .54RR).-
Repair:More focus and balance on the huge difference in reliability between manually reloading and automatic weapons. A bolt action rifle like the mosin or remington will take decades to wear out in terms of parts. Light maintenance however is necessary and bore obstruction/rust would probably be the biggest problem in the zone. Malfunctions like squib load and case head separation happen in these weapons, not typically stovepipes like in the game. This means that malfunction could lead to catastrophic failure but would be a much rarer event. Repair costs would be cheaper for all bolt weapons (old and new). The big difference in maintenance cost should be between automatics and manual loaders. -
Reliability:More difference between automatics. Some western automatics are much more reliable than others, same with Russian weapons. Part rarity should be properly reflected. Weapons families like AK based guns, HK based guns and AR-15 based guns have many interchangeable parts and large stockpiles. Rarities like the Stg44, SA80, AN-94 etc. are much harder to find replacements for and much more expensive. -
Automatic shotguns:Far to reliable in use. Stovepipes in the real world if not using correct ammunition. Because of differences (or poor quality of loading) between 12 gauge shells, just picking up any ammo you find and putting it into a Saiga or SPAS is not generally a good idea. In the zone you could imagine all sorts of 12 gauge being used, so this would be a real problem. This would help to counter how overpowered these guns are, possibly by adding specific ammunition or something like that.-
Stealth:
New stealth elements of 2.0 look great, some comments on realism. 
I like 2.0's optimization for stealth and think that this will help make 9mm weapons relevant again, however I hope they make it realistic. Any semi-auto or auto is much harder to silence than manual closed bolt. Ammunition must be sub-sonic - otherwise you get a wonderful "cracking" noise. It would be great to hear this as I have fired suppressed 5.56 and 7.62 in RL and the noise the bullet makes is awesome. It still makes detecting the site of origin from long range difficult, but would make any others around aware to a gun being fired. I don't know if this could be implemented in game however. 
The other thing is the idea that noise is related to caliber. This is not entirely true, noise is related to 2 things after proper suppression is used, the mechanical operation of the gun and super vs sub sonic bullet. More powder however makes proper suppression more difficult as there is more gas expanding so you need a physically larger 
silencer, which affects weapon handling. Also, larger slides and higher operating pressures will mean that it will cost more to silence a weapon.
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I would love it if you have to mod the weapon to get it truly silent, not just attach a suppressor, as this is realistic. If you did this, .45 is as silent as .22 when done properly, but it is going to cost more and leave the weapon more unwieldy. For suppression of automatic rifles, you would also have to have subsonic ammo (or reload it yourself if reloading was ever made possible).  
 
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New weapons for realism:More civilian or poor mans weapons to help mid game balance. Save most of new military autos for Pripyat staches. I felt there was little reward for getting to Pripyat in Misery 1.2. It would make sense to find military weapons there instead of Jupiter, because the military, the best equipped mercs and the monlith are there.
- .22LR is a probably the first thing to add, most commonly sold round in the world and cheapest to obtain in bulk. For less that $1500 I know someone who bought 20000 plus rounds, not only purchased them but imported them from the US to a very strict European country and did everything within the law. Stalkers would be exploiting this if they are selling artifacts internationally. Lots of different weapons to chose from here. -
- Cheap manual loading rifles - single shot break action
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- Greater variation of bolt rifle ammunition - particularly weaker rounds for earlier in game .223 or 6.5x55 Krag-Jørgensen e.g.-
- Hunting rifles - just look at the conflicts in Syria and Libya - Remigton 700s all around the place. They are so incredibly cheap and are virtually ubiquitous world over. Also they are some of the toughest wearing guns in production. You could go something like SAKO 85 or Blaser R8s for closer geographical proximity, but my guess is that if there were actually real-life stalkers, they would be using some cheap remington 700 clones, as (the lack of) US export laws make these guns very easy to get. Chinese rifles could be another option.
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- Revolvers - cheap old russian/ukranian ones-
- Old war surplus (mosin was an awesome addition) - more for the fun of it - difficult to find, in hidden stashes Mannlicher-Schönauer, Lee-Enfield -
- Cheaper and old surplus sub machinguns 
The MP5 is far to ubiquitous in the game. Misery 1.0-.2 did a great job with scorpion and PPsh additions, but more would be great.
How about Mac-10s, Tech-9s (or russian variants) Uzis, MP40s, sten guns, grease guns (WWII US Lend-Lease) and some new gen russian kit like the PP-90 or PP-2000?
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Pistols and shotguns are great in Misery already. 8)
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If you add new manual loading weapons and give them much better reliability than autos, you not only counter this with the auto ability but the unwieldy nature of large bolt guns. For example, switching between a bolt action hunting rifle and pistol is much more awkward and takes longer than between a pistol and an ergonomic carbine or smg. Just imagine switching between a hunting rifle and a shotgun or smg, this would be practically impossible outside of cover in the heat of battle. Longer switching times and decreased handling while a bolt action rifle is equipped would be great for balancing this weapon and realism. Likewise, using both slots for pistols, or pistol and short smg/sawn off should be very rapid in shifting weapons and reloading times, particularly for recon. This would give these weapons better balance than they have in Misery 1.2, where I find them useless (apart from the USP with auto which is rediculous)
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Recoil rebalancing:
Least recoil should be on auto 9x18, 9x19 and 5.45x39 which are all very easily fired rounds in full auto. Anyone who has shot an MP5 knows that you can fire accurate 2MOA 3-shot bursts at 100m and still keep the gun on target on full auto through an entire clip. 
Smgs and assault rifles should have the lowest recoil! Pistols with auto are very difficult to use in real life. This needs a rebalance. Pistol with auto is only used as last resort or by a very highly trained individual, it is not at all comparable to firing auto with an smg or assault rifle.
5.56 recoil needs drastic reduction, anyone who acts like the major in misery 1.2 is either a little girl or has muscular distrophy. The 5.56 round is very controllable in real life
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7.62x51 is about right. Given I have unintentionally fired this round at full auto in a G3, I know how difficult it is. Great for hitting airplanes or people in villages miles away on full auto, not for firefights. Galil and FN FAL should reflect this, it is the main reason that armies are switching from this round to 5.56. Also, 7.62 is an immensely powerful round, but if it hits in extremity or misses bone it will go strait through the body, often causing less harm than you would expect. If it hits bone however, it causes a much larger shockwave to travel through the body, and can often knock an individual back or put them in shock. I don't know if this can be modeled in game, but I do know that if one was really fighting a chimera or pseudogiant, this round would be much more powerful than buckshot or 7.62x39, which is not modeled in game. Both 7.62x51 and .54 would be the most effective rounds and these monsters are thick and so would absorb all of the energy. The velocity of the rounds mean they would inflict much more damage internally than buckshot, which is O.P. in game. This would also be great for balance as it is much more difficult to pump rounds of .51 and .54 into these basterds than it is to take Saiga and chuck them full of buckshot.  

I just read through and I hope no one takes what is above as a critism - I love Misery 1.2 and I am in awe of what you guys did with Stalker COP. It feels like a completely new game and is better IMHO in every way to the original. Keep up the good work!

Apr 3 2013, 2:41am Anchor

Just a little bit here and there

I think with weapon balance, Having ammo being cheaper for 5.45 I think would go well towards balance, also with the lower grade 7.62x54, 7.62x39 etc... Also for realism (as I dont understand why its bloody easy to find a Ak on every 2nd person, but finding a clip of ammo?)
Maybe to help balance this out we could have some lower-grade rounds, being around in the Zone for awhile, being cheaper but also lacking the same power as a more Fresh round? explained though some Strange Rapid corrosion of the bullet, casing or whatever

I think it would encorage more spray and pray, possibly also adding in Less AI Accuracy for the lower ranked NPC's (Low level Bandits and Loners)

Im not sure about having .22LR in the game, I think it wouldnt have the power to down anything above a hamster, or piss off some stalker in the distance.

with 9mm 

Someone wrote:9mm weapons relevant again,

Ive used a TT and a APS (Please, get 7.62x25 in the game for the TT!) both in 9x19, Being both very effective for me, with the HP rounds the APS is deadly vs. Most mutants

I think, overall we should see more Eastern block weapons in the game, with NATO weapons being only really operated by Merc's and a few of the High up loners and Freedom, Thinking about the location of the zone, how most weapons end up their (Though the Military). Maybe this would also help the poor old Makarov have some more love, pretty much no point of carrying it apart from its weight.

May 12 2013, 4:03pm Anchor

Great step ahead of weapon realism would be adding realistic damage model. 
In every single game demage chart work like
10 m = 60dmg
50m = 50dmg
100m = 30dmg
400m = 10dmg
So basicaly said with increasing distance stoping power decrease
And also games dont see diference between penetration and stopping power
In reality this is how it works
With increasing distance only penetration decrease (because lower speed = lower penetration)
But stoping power work little bit different. If you get hit by bullet with bigger speed it doesnt mean you get bigger injury.  There is some optimal value for every shot at what you cause biggest damage. 
For example you get hit by Dragunov from 10 metres in your stomach.  Bullet will fly out of you and you get pretty bad injury. But if you get medical help you can survive. But if you get hit by Draginov from 700 metres. Bullet wont fly out of you and your goats are wrecked. You are pretty much dead.
But this doesnt work if you have heavy ballistic vest. Because if you get hit from 10 metres Bullet would still penetrate your vest. But from 700 metres you only get koncked down but you dont get injured.
(I didnt say this situation is 100% accurate I just want you to see the point of how this works)
So with this damage model I would rather use my colt 1911  in close quarters instead of semi automatic AN 94 because .45 caliber would cause more damage than 5.45. And if i see someone in exoskeleton 100 metres ahead from me I woudnt use my AS Val because subsonic 9mm from suppresed weapon doesnt have enough penetration power.

May 12 2013, 6:15pm Anchor

While making 5.56 cheapers makes the game more realistic it reduces the challenge because most 5.56 weapons are far more powerful than 7.62 weapons, in my opinion i think 5.56 should be more expensive because you are in ukraine  and most russian weapons use 7.62 ammo if you check some weapons you will see that most american guns are 5.56 so 7.62 should be more common and cheaper and by the way in real life fn fal uses 7.62 ammo not 5.56

May 13 2013, 10:08am Anchor
The_Spy1451 wrote:in real life fn fal uses 7.62 ammo not 5.56

Correct.

The_Spy1451 wrote:and most russian weapons use 7.62 ammo

Please do name a few. Are you sure you're not mixing those up with the newer 5.45? But yes indeed there are still weapons using the 7.62x39.
But aren't the ones in STALKER rather 7.62x51? These, as well as the 5.56, are the official NATO rounds since the 1970s. First NATO does not equal USA, even before 1990 you had NATO-weapons all over Europe (Germany etc) which is not so far away from neither Russia nor the Ukraine. And second, if you think about where the NATO has fought since the 1970s it is fair to say that these weapons and rounds are virtually everywhere.

SpectreSVK wrote:Great step ahead of weapon realism would be adding realistic damage model. 
In every single game demage chart work like
10 m = 60dmg
50m = 50dmg
100m = 30dmg
400m = 10dmg
So basicaly said with increasing distance stoping power decrease
And also games dont see diference between penetration and stopping power
In reality this is how it works
With increasing distance only penetration decrease (because lower speed = lower penetration)
But stoping power work little bit different. If you get hit by bullet with bigger speed it doesnt mean you get bigger injury.  There is some optimal value for every shot at what you cause biggest damage. 
For example you get hit by Dragunov from 10 metres in your stomach.  Bullet will fly out of you and you get pretty bad injury. But if you get medical help you can survive. But if you get hit by Draginov from 700 metres. Bullet wont fly out of you and your goats are wrecked. You are pretty much dead.
But this doesnt work if you have heavy ballistic vest. Because if you get hit from 10 metres Bullet would still penetrate your vest. But from 700 metres you only get koncked down but you dont get injured.
(I didnt say this situation is 100% accurate I just want you to see the point of how this works)
So with this damage model I would rather use my colt 1911  in close quarters instead of semi automatic AN 94 because .45 caliber would cause more damage than 5.45. And if i see someone in exoskeleton 100 metres ahead from me I woudnt use my AS Val because subsonic 9mm from suppresed weapon doesnt have enough penetration power.


But isn't this exactly what the game is trying to do? You do have the impact and bullet (penetration) values separated and the ammo description also says that some bullets are better for armoured enemies (due to penetration power) while others are better in terms of stopping power (eg. against animals). Correct me if I'm wrong.

And for the "not get injured" part: Have you ever taken a bullet to the vest? I tell you it hurts and can very well injure you altough it wont penetrate. I've seen people suffering (and nearly dying) from a ruptured colon and other internal damage done by bullet to the vest.
Also, rather using a Colt than an automatic for CQC, eeehhh... if you're only allowed one shot with each weapon maybe. But have you seen special forces entering a CQC-situation? What do they carry? Well shotguns of course, and SMGs. If you can choose between firing 2-3 very powerful .45 bullets or 12-15 not so powerful 5.45 or even 9x19 PB bullets in one second, I'd always go for the weaker ammo. Much more bullets, much more spray, higher chance of hitting and doing multiple damage.

May 14 2013, 7:06am Anchor

yes you got a point. In CQC gamers tents to use assault rifles instead of SMG. Because Rate of Fire are almost same and recoil is lower. But in real life normal people would prefer SMG because 9x19 are more usable in short range and SMG are shorter. In PC game you can stand 10cm from your enemy or wall or another baricade with 110cm weapon in your hands. 
This would be another great upgrade. You want be able to shoot if you are too close to some baricade.

(and yes I wrote a I would use Colt because I used to carry only semi auto AN94 and Colt 1911 nothing else, so using handgun over assault riffle in this case would be more profitable. Of course SMG or shotgun are still better choices)

And about dividing penetration and stopping power. Yes this is already implentet but i was writting about how distance change this values.  
Game -> greater distance = lower stoping power
Real life -> greater distance = bigger stoping power to some point and then greater distance = lower stoping power

May 14 2013, 8:35am Anchor
SpectreSVK wrote:(and yes I wrote a I would use Colt because I used to carry only semi auto AN94 and Colt 1911 nothing else

Ah, I see, if those are the choices then yes, save the auto-ammo and try colting them down. (;

SpectreSVK wrote:And about dividing penetration and stopping power. Yes this is already implentet but i was writting about how distance change this values.

Game -> greater distance = lower stoping power
Real life -> greater distance = bigger stoping power to some point and then greater distance = lower stoping power


I get your point but as I don't know the first thing about scripting I'm wondering if it can be done in the game. The stopping power in relation to distance should be distributed in a Gaussian (normal) distribution ( En.wikipedia.org ) rather than a linear degression.

Somewhat like this:

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Edited by: erichlebt

Spetsnaz_Reaper
Spetsnaz_Reaper The Russian
May 14 2013, 10:40am Anchor
nerrawg wrote:I've got a few observations/ideas on more realistic/balanced weaponry from playing misery, but with 2.0 looking very good these might be more relevant to a potential 2.1 or 3.0.

Have you taken a look at this? Moddb.com 

A lot of time and effort has gone into making this PDF file by the team, and it gives a basic overview of how weapon stats will be like in 2.0. If you have already seen this then I apologize and say that weapons have a grate improvement with regards to version 1.0 Also with all the new features regarding realism for the weapons aspect I can say that in terms of realism for Stalker COP this is a very close thing, as far as the game engines limitations allow for...

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Any Mission, any Time, any Place!

May 22 2013, 8:50am Anchor

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yes this is exactly what I mean :) 

Aug 5 2013, 10:07am Anchor

Add a few very expensive AK-12's kalashnikovs new rifles. Formerly known as the ak200. Or maybe a few ak200 protypes?

Aug 5 2013, 1:43pm Anchor

I don't think I'll live to see Misery 3.0...

Aug 5 2013, 2:08pm Anchor

If they did stopping power with distance it would need to be modeled for each caliber as some rounds carry Kinect energy further than others.

That would need a lot of development time and in game resources to model.....

More to the point I don't see an weapon drop in game or at least it isn't accurate so that's a whole design element that needs to be made.....

All in all I think its asking a bit too much from a mod this is more of something you see in a game release where you are working on the game engine from source.

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Knife kills and stealth Misery 2.0
Youtube.com

Misery 2.0 is too easy... look! Youtube.com

Aug 5 2013, 2:28pm Anchor

I want to see a new inventory, that also has limited space.  ArmA 3's inventory would be perfect for this I think.

Aug 12 2013, 10:35am Anchor

How about rifles with attached bayonet ? 

User Posted Image

Aug 12 2013, 1:07pm Anchor
kalashla wrote:How about rifles with attached bayonet ? 

User Posted Image


How about under-barrel lights that occupy the grenade slot?
 

Also, guys, for some already suggested weapons, check here: 
Moddb.com
(i made a rather lengthy post there) 

--

Author of a bunch of tweaks and stuff:

  • [Misery 2.0] Misc adjustments.
  • [Misery 2.0] Stealth fixes.
  • [Misery 2.1] - thread - Misc tweaks.
  • [Misery 2.1] - thread - New performance texture pack and radio songs addon.
  • [Misery 2.1] - thread - SweetFX shaders (poor man's ENB).

Bad stuff happened, lost all my files - goodbye... : /

Aug 21 2013, 12:01am Anchor

The AN-94 in Misery 2.0 need to be improved other things which are much more important than texture :
- The iron sight is unrealistic and look crappy .(BF3 model looks good)
- 2 rounds Burst is incorrect : i can even tap while using burst mode , burst sound and speed is not fast as realistic( 1800 rpm)
- Moving barrel

Edited by: kalashla

Aug 21 2013, 2:55am Anchor
jamoy1375375333 wrote:Add a few very expensive AK-12's kalashnikovs new rifles. Formerly known as the ak200. Or maybe a few ak200 protypes?

Fuck yeah!

Stiivais wrote:
How about under-barrel lights that occupy the grenade slot?
 

Fuck yeah!

Generally I'm rather disappointed in the weapons-work of the mod. The fact that the "damage" stat is mostly independent of the used caliber is just plain stupid. I play sniper because I couldn't live with the idea that my beloved AK47 (AKM) does lower damage per bullet than a crappy colt carabine... :(
AK47 was partially used as a sniper rifle, when scoped. So don't fuck with the AK47!

Aug 21 2013, 6:06am Anchor

I would as well much more prefer a lamp attached to a gun instead of an underbarrel grenade launcher, as an option of course.

But what bothers me the most are the choppy gun reload animations... seriously devs please consider the gun animation mod which u partially implemented (running with the pistols keeping them upwards for example, you did implement, yet not the excellent handgun reloads) the slide pulls on the new pistols at the moment look very choppy and somewhat out of frame if you just notice it, and the character basically inserts the same magazine that he takes out of the m4a1 and m16 assault rifles (i play on FOV 90 so that is probably the reason why i see the character inserting the same magazine he took out, lol) as well as the lovely akm, not having an animation of pulling out the magazine at all, hard to explain with my lack of english knowledge but im positive you know what i mean, unless it is only in my side that the anims are so buggy when doing reloads?

Aug 21 2013, 12:05pm Anchor
Frostelis wrote:I would as well much more prefer a lamp attached to a gun instead of an underbarrel grenade launcher, as an option of course.

But what bothers me the most are the choppy gun reload animations... seriously devs please consider the gun animation mod which u partially implemented (running with the pistols keeping them upwards for example, you did implement, yet not the excellent handgun reloads) the slide pulls on the new pistols at the moment look very choppy and somewhat out of frame if you just notice it, and the character basically inserts the same magazine that he takes out of the m4a1 and m16 assault rifles (i play on FOV 90 so that is probably the reason why i see the character inserting the same magazine he took out, lol) as well as the lovely akm, not having an animation of pulling out the magazine at all, hard to explain with my lack of english knowledge but im positive you know what i mean, unless it is only in my side that the anims are so buggy when doing reloads?



andd... kar98k has the shittiest reload animation of all since misery 1.0. ;( There IS a fix for it but MDT seems to ignore it. ( SGM 2.2 mod has the same kar98k model as in misery but SGM one has correct reload anim while misery's model is shitty as hell?!? Seriously, that is an immersion breaker. :sick:

Regarding akm, the actual reload anim for it is actually similar to ak105 and aek but MDT seems to use the current crappy anim which doesnt show changing mag and moving charging handle. Why is that?? :confused: I know this because in SGM mod, there is the same akm model there with correct reload anim.

Regarding the other weapon models, most of them are created by various modders ( except vanilla stalker guns ). So, we simply can't blame MDT because they didn't create the gun models. (for vanilla guns, blame GSC. )Anyway this game was released in 2009. so what to expect? in addition, changing or altering weapons' animation is NOT an easy task. Only people who are familiar and expert with animation programming can do such task and it IS TEDIOUS as hell. So, I think, what MDT can do alleviate this issue is rather limited. Many guns in Misey are from various big mods out there (SGM, AMK, arsenal,etc ). In my opinion, MDT should only take weapon models from other mods which have proper model and anim in the future. If they can improve them, it is better that way. Anyway, this is just my opinion.

Edited by: Deanbk90

Aug 22 2013, 2:50am Anchor

Moddb.com 

This. I know the reload animation is not very realistic, but its a whole better looking than the current ones. I wish it were just as simple as replacing misery files with the files from that mod so it could have a different anim of reloading, but it probably is not and i dont want to ruin the installed mod.

Aug 22 2013, 1:28pm Anchor
kalashla wrote:The AN-94 in Misery 2.0 need to be improved other things which are much more important than texture :
- The iron sight is unrealistic and look crappy .(BF3 model looks good)
- 2 rounds Burst is incorrect : i can even tap while using burst mode , burst sound and speed is not fast as realistic( 1800 rpm)
- Moving barrel

Yea the engine prevents us from changing the 2 rnd burst fire rate. I would like to see the burst be at 1800 rpm and auto on 600. The moving barel is sexy i wana see a badass animation for reload when he cocks using the front sight rather than the charging handle

Aug 24 2013, 12:58am Anchor

I'm currently working on an ACTUAL weapon realism mod for misery, using actual factors that affect weapon damage, like barrel length and real life round ballistics.

**WARNING** The following rant is only for those concerned with ACTUAL firearms realism. You can yap about "game balance" all you want, but real life guns actually do have a balance. Look at the real life m14, m4, and ak47; they all vary dramatically in range, power, ergonomics, handling, and accuracy. No contrived game balance required. 

First, no gun in this game is "overpowered". Anyone claiming this has never seen what the common calibers in this game can actually do to people. As a former cop, I have had the misfortune to see what 7.62x51 and 5.56 rounds will do to the human body. Wearing a freaking leather trench-coat or whatever light armor is common in the game will NOT stop you from getting dropped by either round. The fact it takes the FAL 2 or 3 shots to the torso from point blank range is absurd. That round will blow a grapefruit sized exit wound out of a person, and if that hits center mass within a few hundred meters, you are done for. 7.62x51 is very similar ballistically to the 7.62x54 rounds the Dragunov and SVU use, yet the weapons seem considerably weaker for no apparent reason. My understanding from modding the vanilla game is that the 1.0 hit_power (used by the SVD) would be the minimum damage required to kill an unarmored stalker in one hit to the chest. Anything less would require two. This is ridiculous. That round is many times more lethal than the "bare minimum" needed to kill a person. Even modern body armor like the interceptor (equivalent to heavy armor in game) needs plate inserts to stop this round from dropping you for the count, weather it's fired from an SVU, SVD, or PKM. If you have a strong stomach, search for real life pictures of exit wounds. Even the "weak" 5.56 or 5.45 rounds leave some nasty holes in people that will make you think dimly of the bandit taking 3 to the chest while still firing at you. 

Speaking of the PKM, how much damage a round will cause and how far it will fly is mostly influenced by one factor, barrel length. The reason an ak74 hits harder and shoots further than the ak74su is that the longer barrel allows more gas pressure to push the round forward. When the barrel is shortened, much of the gas is lost before it can help accelerate the round. For some reason the PKM has a pathetic range, accuracy, and less damage per round than the SVD. It actually has a longer barrel, and has been proven in combat to be an extremely accurate weapon. In Misery, the Galil and FnFal have longer barrels than the m14 (m21), yet are quite a bit weaker..  the 7.62 round doesn't magically become more damaging if the weapon is a "sniper" rifle (not to mention the M14 in misery is a chopped down version that no sniper would use)

So far I've fixed the modern battle, ww2, and sniper rifles, as well as the PKM by painstakingly researching the power of each round, and ballistics by barrel length. Fortunately the guns have largely had the correct effective range for firing so far.

Other to do items:

*Fix accuracy. Completely nonsensical how inaccurate some of these guns are. 
*Fix bleedout rates? If anyone knows how to do this, this would actually be a great way to implement realism. Say you shoot a bandit in the leg with an assault rifle. He should really be limping along and collapse in fairly short order. A gut shot should do it even faster. 
*Fix RPM. Some of them are actually correct, while some make no sense whatsoever.
*Fix recoil. Here's where real life balance comes in, and also prevents the realistic damage from being "overpowered" Getting rapid follow up shots with large caliber rifle (SVD, FAL, ect) is considerably more challenging than with a little 5.56 or 5.45 rifle, and submachine guns are even easier to handle. In game context, if you aren't careful and focused, and let out a reckless burst with a FAL or Galil against a group of bandits, you'll pay with your life. 
*Cover penetration. Still haven't really figured out what cover is affected and what isn't, but many of the weapons should defeat wood, brick, and concrete walls and still mess up the person on the other side.

Oct 3 2013, 12:02am Anchor
chiconspiracy wrote:I'm currently working on an ACTUAL weapon realism mod for misery, using actual factors that affect weapon damage, like barrel length and real life round ballistics.

Cool! Looking forward to it!

chiconspiracy wrote:First, no gun in this game is "overpowered".

Certainly agree with this in terms of the humans in the game. The imbalance I find is between weapon types when fighting large mutants like the Pseudo or the Chimera. For some reason shotgun slugs do lots more damage than 7.62 x .51 or .54RR in the game. This is probably off, as while the slugs are of a greater caliber, they are much slower and their kinetic energy is therefore significantly less a rifle round travelling at 800-900 ms. If we were talking about humans or smaller mutants, then possibly the slug does more damage because the rifle rounds will easily go strait through. Nonetheless .51 and .54RR rifle exit wounds are typically horrific and if it hits bone ... well, that's pretty all she wrote - try picking thousands of small bone fragments out of muscle tissue, I'm sure its not fun).     

chiconspiracy wrote:Other to do items:

*Fix accuracy. Completely nonsensical how inaccurate some of these guns are. 

Excellent! I agree, the bolt actions in particular are ridiculously poor when you compare them to the phenomenal in-game accuracy of the SVDs - in real life (RL) this would easily be the opposite way around. A highly customized Remington action (Green Dragon is one if its meant to be an M40) can easily dip below 0.5 moa with a target barrel and proper ammo. Not too mention how sweet it can be with an Ed Brown action and trigger. 

chiconspiracy wrote:*Fix bleedout rates? If anyone knows how to do this, this would actually be a great way to implement realism. Say you shoot a bandit in the leg with an assault rifle. He should really be limping along and collapse in fairly short order. A gut shot should do it even faster.
*Fix RPM. Some of them are actually correct, while some make no sense whatsoever. 

Could be difficult to do that, but good luck! 

chiconspiracy wrote:*Fix recoil. Here's where real life balance comes in, and also prevents the realistic damage from being "overpowered" Getting rapid follow up shots with large caliber rifle (SVD, FAL, ect) is considerably more challenging than with a little 5.56 or 5.45 rifle, and submachine guns are even easier to handle. In game context, if you aren't careful and focused, and let out a reckless burst with a FAL or Galil against a group of bandits, you'll pay with your life.
*Cover penetration. Still haven't really figured out what cover is affected and what isn't, but many of the weapons should defeat wood, brick, and concrete walls and still mess up the person on the other side.

This really needs to be done. I think the 7.62 recoil in-game is pretty much spot on, as in, virtually impossible to use effectively on full auto. Problem is, recoil is way too high on smg's and 5.45/5.56 rifles. Having fired both MP5s and AR's I have to say that they are much easier to control in RL. The MP5, for example, is probably one of the easiest weapons to shoot period. 22 LR handguns have more kick and the MP5 has about the same recoil (going from feel - not stats) as an m1 carbine. Thing is, the MP5 fits perfectly into your shoulder and is probably the perfect length (if your 5'11 at least). I could easily empty a magazine without struggling to hold a target even though I have only shot it a few times and was never officially trained on it, so someone who uses it professionally should have not issues at all. I have seen people place 30 rounds in a matter of seconds on target from 100 yards - so they have completely messed up the recoil on this one. In game for some reason the pistols are more accurate and have better ergo than the smgs- in real life its night and day. Try placing rapid fire shots accurately with a glock 17 and then switch to an MP5 - its a world of difference. Any pistol takes much more skill from the operators side of things, I usually tell people that accuracy is a non-issue for pistols. Why?, because for most people the pistol is far more accurate than the person will ever be.

Next are the 5mm rifles: I've never shot any of the Russian models so I can't say how they feel, although I would guess they probably are even weaker in terms of recoil than NATO 5.56. NATO 5.56 is slightly weaker than the standard .223 hunting round, which, when shot in a bolt rifle is still pretty mild. Gas guns like the M4/M16 are so well designed that it really is incredible how well they can handle on full auto. An AR, for example, is a whole world apart from the older battle rifles like the G3 or M14. This really needs to be reflected in the game, because at the moment I find no reason to use 5.56 in-game - it has the same recoil as 7.62 which is ridiculous. This isn't just a matter of realism, its down to good game balance, there needs to be a good reason to use 5.56 in game. It therefore stands that if you can make the game more realistic and better balanced at the same time - that's a win-win for everyone.

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