Edit camouflage settings at night Thread - MISERY mod for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat

Hi stalkers! I'm on a new test playthrough and wanted to play around with the camouflage settings at night on armors. I'm testing this over at the waste processing station in Zaton (while on the mission to sneak around to find info at their merc base) and they're currently detecting and shooting me as soon as I pass the open gates. I've tried lowering the values from things like 'n_detect_range_factor' found in items_outfit.ltx from the specific armor I want change stats on but when I change these values to something lower like 0.10 it doesn't seem to be decreasing the detection range much, if at all (and I'm sneaking around at night without any weapons and things like that)

The only way how I got the mercs to stop detecting me so easily is by directly changing the eye_range values in m_stalker.ltx but this isn't really the solution I'm looking for

In short I'd just like to make camouflage 'overpowered' so that people can sneak around (only at night) without getting detected so easily

Any help and advice is much appreciated, thank you for your time!

Edited by: happysnapper98

Just wear a rain coat. Choose the right item for the job vs. nerf the whole lot.

Hi Jasper, thanks for the quick reply! I get detected just as easily wearing the rain coat (that's the trench coat right? the first novice_outfit in items_outfit.ltx?) and I tried changing the values on it but it doesn't really seem to be helping much

I'm trying to make this playable for people like my dad who I use as one of my test subjects but even when I know where to go I'm having a hard time guiding him without him getting detected and shot dead instantly, so it's something I wanted to have tweaked for my own patch

P.S These are the current settings for the Light overcoat (the trenchcoat if I'm correct but it's called novice_outfit in items_outfit.ltx)

Actually got confused at some points because theres multiple novice_outfit's in items_outfit.ltx but this one should be for the Light overcoat

P.S.S Even when giving myself a ghillie suit through console just to test for camouflage I get detected at pretty much the same range as the Light overcoat

Edited by: happysnapper98

kcs123 is the guy who could help you with that. Not being detected by trained Mercenaries with NV gear is unrealistic and no fun IMHO. You should never be able to expect to not be detected or the most challenging AI in the game becomes "just go here and they can't see you - Yawn" Only the Ghillie has better camouflage AFAIK. Wear a Ghillie if you want to be sneeki breeki.

Yeah you're right, of course! I just wanted to find a better detection range spot so that it becomes easier but also doesn't become un-fun, like you say. But because nothing happens no matter what values I change it into there's nothing I can even play around with to test to find this new sweet spot.

I'm not sure how these moddb forums exactly work by the way - did Kcs123 get notified because you linked his name in this thread or should/could I just shoot him a message? Thanks again Jasper!

Edited by: happysnapper98

Changing the overall eye_range at line 400 of m_stalker.ltx, eye_range = 250, by 25m at a time (lower) until you find a comfortable balance for YOU will adjust the camouflage across the range a tad easier. Beyond that only Kcs123 can help.

We played around a lot to find our level of balance. If I were going to give it a try, I would wear a Ghillie, and adjust it down until I thought I was at a detection range where you ought to just be able to notice a Ghillie clad stalker. TBH, IRL that would be pretty darn close until you enter the paved areas where you would be easily spotted by anyone.

Edited by: jasper34

Loud and clear jasper!

Just FYI, the intent of the camouflage system was never to make you invisible or undetectable, but to make it harder for you to be spotted when you were not running or jumping (which would obviously draw attention and, in fact does in-game). There is a subtle 'blink' factor where an NPC blinks deciding if he really sees you that close, and then he reacts. The better your camo, the longer (fractions of a second) the delay between noticing you and reacting. Happy Hunting!

Ooh I didn't know that about the blink factor, that's really cool!

Just FYI, the intent of the camouflage system was never to make you invisible or undetectable, but to make it harder for you to be spotted when you were not running or jumping (which would obviously draw attention and, in fact does in-game).

Does slowly walking and crouching influence being detected much? compared to standing still

I feel the same way about these things as you, honestly, but would still love to find a way to make it so that you're simply less easily detected for a certain kind of players. But the problem with changing the eye_range line is that it's a good temporary tweak for myself but not a good solution if I want to apply this to a patch for multiple people because of the consequences it will have of having a low eye_range throughout the entire game (I can't un-change it for them when they're done with the mission)

If there was a way to make these tweaks dynamic (have it so it only adjusts for this mission, or at night in general) or something similar would be great and perfect, maybe I wouldn't even have to mess with the camouflage settings at all then, but I'm just thinking out loud about all this now

I've sent a message to kcs123 letting him know about this topic and hopefully he'll be able to help find a solution on this

Edited by: happysnapper98

The system already makes it harder to be spotted at night, unless you are using a lamp. Everything is based on the eye_range and changing it changes all day or night. Camouflage does not effect mutants at all, only humans. Being still, in one place, is not ever going to be safe outside a safe haven. The mercs are the most perceptive, everyone else will see you even less. Only completely avoiding line-of-sight will leave you undetected until you are close enough to smell or hear.

Yes, for one, make sure you don't have light turned on, if you have, even if NPCs are not in combat state, they will be able to see above alife range radius.

Exact calculation is like this:

NightSightRange = switch_factor * eye_factor * alun_utils.read_from_ini(nil,weared_outfit,"n_detect_range_factor","float",0.85)

where switch factor is calculated based on how much you have raised alife sight range from default of 300. If you raised alife switch distance, NPCs would see you sooner. But also if you lowered it, it would able to see you later. Same as with eye_factor, if you raise eye_range from old default of 150, that variable will adjust for that.

Those values are used in function "override_combat_ignore" at line #395, so final calculation is like this:

local ghillie_range = tonumber((obj:range() * GhillieSightRange)*(obj:range() * GhillieSightRange)) --distance squared for detection
local ghillie_range_night = tonumber((obj:range() * GhillieSightRange * NightSightRange)*(obj:range() * GhillieSightRange * NightSightRange)) --distance squared for detection

You can try to lower number in items_outfit.ltx file down to 0.1 or so, more bellow that would make NPC way too stupid:

n_detect_range_factor = 0.1

That function "override_combat_ignore" would check ranges between you and NPC, and if NPC would regulary switch from free view to combat state, that function use additional checks, and "say" NPC, no, you didn't see anything, continue with free view state.

That being said, first squad of mercs at WPP plant is not very good to test camouflage feature properly. Reason is that that first quest related squad is scripted to detect you and switch to combat state regardless if they actually see you or not, as soon as you pass over certain point on map. You can think of that as NPCs placed invisible sensors on certain map spots.

That is another reason of confusion that NPCs have magical eye sight. Try to test new values over some other squads, not that mercs at WPP.
There is more detailed article about camouflage on themiserymod.com web page, but can't find link for it right now. Have to search for it or maybe Jasper have it stored somewhere ?

EDIT:

Found it: Themiserymod.com

In other words, range at NPC would no longer ignore you should be some value close to this:

n_detect_range_factor = 0.3
eye_sight = 150

Finall_distance = 0.3 * 150 = 45 m

45 m might still be quite high in certain situation for someone, so 0.1 * 150 would give you around 15m of range where NPC would not be able to spot you.

Keep in mind that those values are not exact, as it also depends on other factors in game. Also, NPC can detect you by sounds as well, not only with eyes.

Edited by: kcs123

Yes, for one, make sure you don't have light turned on, if you have, even if NPCs are not in combat state, they will be able to see above alife range radius.

Exact calculation is like this:

NightSightRange = switch_factor * eye_factor * alun_utils.read_from_ini(nil,weared_outfit,"n_detect_range_factor","float",0.85)

where switch factor is calculated based on how much you have raised alife sight range from default of 300. If you raised alife switch distance, NPCs would see you sooner. But also if you lowered it, it would able to see you later. Same as with eye_factor, if you raise eye_range from old default of 150, that variable will adjust for that.

Those values are used in function "override_combat_ignore" at line #395, so final calculation is like this:

local ghillie_range = tonumber((obj:range() * GhillieSightRange)*(obj:range() * GhillieSightRange)) --distance squared for detection
local ghillie_range_night = tonumber((obj:range() * GhillieSightRange * NightSightRange)*(obj:range() * GhillieSightRange * NightSightRange)) --distance squared for detection

You can try to lower number in items_outfit.ltx file down to 0.1 or so, more bellow that would make NPC way too stupid:

n_detect_range_factor = 0.1

That function "override_combat_ignore" would check ranges between you and NPC, and if NPC would regulary switch from free view to combat state, that function use additional checks, and "say" NPC, no, you didn't see anything, continue with free view state.

Wow thank you very much for the detailed and informative response Kcs123! This is all super helpful

That being said, first squad of mercs at WPP plant is not very good to test camouflage feature properly. Reason is that that first quest related squad is scripted to detect you and switch to combat state regardless if they actually see you or not, as soon as you pass over certain point on map. You can think of that as NPCs placed invisible sensors on certain map spots.

Ah it's no wonder that nothing worked then! So that whole squad works on special quest scripts, and I had absolutely no idea! Really does make me feel stupid, this explains why the ghillie suit wasn't even helping

That is another reason of confusion that NPCs have magical eye sight. Try to test new values over some other squads, not that mercs at WPP.

I will absolutely try out and test new values for other squads, but have the feeling I don't need to change much as the squad at the WPP was one of the very few places I wanted to make things easier around on. Otherwise I just risk making things un-fun like jasper said

Conclusion: Thank you both Jasper and Kcs123 in helping me figure out I probably don't need to change camouflage settings after all

P.S Do you guys think there is anything I can do to make the merc quest at WPP easier not for myself but for other people too? In what way I don't even know anymore, I was hoping you guys would maybe have any ideas? I mean if it's simply not possible because things are too hardcoded then there's nothing to do about it, but if theres something you can think of that I haven't I'd appreciate it so much

Edited by: happysnapper98

I'm truly at a loss as to why anyone has trouble with that quest. Camouflage works on the Mercs at the WPP just fine. It is the expectation of being able to walk past the noses of highly trained soldiers who are fully alert that needs to be managed. Then again, I don't sneak, too boring. I snipe, ambush from around a corner, let them come into my kill zone. They have the best AI in the game, but it makes them the most fun to beat. Approach the WPP with a red ecologist suit and then with a Ghillie on and you will see how much slower they react. Once you are detected, all camouflage effects go out the window. You need to be positioned where only dead men knew your position for a flash before a bullet to the brain put them down. Killing them during the 'blink' leaves other unalerted as to your precise position.

I'm truly at a loss as to why anyone has trouble with that quest.

Haha you should see how my dad plays So after I did my vanilla playthrough, but before I started any mods, I was still reading up on all the different kinds of mods and whenever I read something about Misery I noticed there where quite a few people who would say that it sucks or isn't fun to play because of how hard it is, and when I tried it out myself I kind of agreed on both the good things and bad things people were saying about it. And like them, I wanted to play this mod with all its cool functions without the dreaded difficulty

Before testing and doing a full playthrough of Misery myself I decided to go through all the recent (recent meaning since 2.2 came out) threads on all the different kinds of platforms and websites (I stalked Discord servers, reddit forums, moddb forums, twitch, social media (my friends who play too) etc) and tried to contact and find people who either gave up on Misery already or were still playing and asked them if they were interested in providing me with just some very general simple feedback whenever they felt like or had time for it upon playing. There's one person who never bothered to play much more of Misery and has now started to play it again with some quick basic tweaks I made for him so I could at least help him on the initial hiccups he had. I think the fact that he's playing Misery again now is pretty cool

The merc quest at the WPP seems to be an issue as it seems to be one of the most common complaints/problems people have reported about

This particular message I got from Reddit and is what finally got me to have a look at it right away as I was still busy on another project (I didn't ask for permission to post his message here btw so I just blacked out his name to prevent any future misunderstandings)

Camouflage works on the Mercs at the WPP just fine.

Yeah I don't disagree with you, everything works as it should but it's just that those invisible checks that Kcs123 was talking about are in play here, and there's nothing to do about that, it would seem? That's why I'm just trying to see if you guys would have any ideas or advice, despite not necessarily sharing the same feeling that something has to be changed

I mean, making any tweaks at all defeats the purpose of this mod, of course! and I can only imagine it's a little annoying especially when you're personally involved in development of Misery like you guys are to read about people wanting to tweak and change everything, make their own tweaks based on your hard work etc. but there's obviously an amount of people interested in an even more dumbed down and easier version of Misery and I'm just trying to help make this

Edited by: happysnapper98

It's very simple. Kill them before they kill you. There are any number of spots with decent camouflage armor you can pick off the mercs one-by-one. TBH MISERY is not IMHO a mod for pacifists. That's a great option to have a non-violent solution for every quest when designing a game, but it is a FPS the S being shooter. You are supposed to shoot people LOL.

That's what mods are for, we hold no animosity against those who want it easier.

It's very simple. Kill them before they kill you. There are any number of spots with decent camouflage armor you can pick off the mercs one-by-one. TBH MISERY is not IMHO a mod for pacifists. That's a great option to have a non-violent solution for every quest when designing a game, but it is a FPS the S being shooter. You are supposed to shoot people LOL.

Hahaha jasper, yeah I had the same reaction as you when I read that man. But after I enquired about it he said he could easily do it on vanilla without getting detected which caused me to be like ''alright let's see how to make it just as easy as vanilla then''. It was the first time hearing about someone wanting to resolve it peacefully but not the first time having complaints and problems with the general difficulty of the mission

Appreciate your continued advice and thoughts

The eye_range on vanilla was 125 or 150m IIRC, the switch distance was, anyway. There is a great deal more that goes into reaction times which is beyond my personal level of knowledge. The mercs have the best reaction times and abilities of all. The WPP is a portion of the game, like the Mitay rescue mission, which gives some people trouble sorting. It's mainly the people who are too stubborn to adjust their tactics. Trying to remain in the same vulnerable position and win a firefight against superior numbers, failing to reposition after giving away your position and allowing yourself to be flanked or targeted with grenades, and so on. For a Nine year old game, the AI is still better than most AAA titles being produced today IMHO.

To anyone who complains about "I could do this in Vanilla" I say then if you liked that, why use a Mod? Those people should maybe play Complete, if all they want is prettier and no further challenge. That's just my personal take

The WPP is a portion of the game, like the Mitay rescue mission, which gives some people trouble sorting. It's mainly the people who are too stubborn to adjust their tactics. Trying to remain in the same vulnerable position and win a firefight against superior numbers, failing to reposition after giving away your position and allowing yourself to be flanked or targeted with grenades, and so on. For a Nine year old game, the AI is still better than most AAA titles being produced today IMHO.

Yeah I'm trying to sort and filter complaints/problems that are entirely dependent on your own play skills, to a degree. Like for example I will simply ignore any reports and/or requests to reduce damage done to actor and similair things like that because I do not think things like these need changing.

Especially not after playing on rookie mode and disabling hardcore AI. I'm also thinking about asking people if they're willing to make a short video clip when they run into future problems so I can see for myself what's going wrong, because you can't always guarrantee someone is properly explaining what the problem is

To anyone who complains about "I could do this in Vanilla" I say then if you liked that, why use a Mod? Those people should maybe play Complete, if all they want is prettier and no further challenge.

Well to be fair Misery adds so much functionallity to the game too, so it's definitly not just the graphics that people play it for! Actually it was all the cool extra stuff that Misery adds that made me cut my own vanilla Call of Pripyat playthrough short

That's just my personal take

And I really appreciate it so much, having experienced and knowledgeable people like yourself help me out is invaluable to me. It severely reduces the chances of me releasing something that sucks, doesn't work and nobody wants

Edited by: happysnapper98

I'm an extremely jaded player with 6589 hours of play, almost 5000 of them on MISERY.

It's very hard to please even half the people who will try a game/mod. You really need a user interface that will allow players to turn on/off or low/med/high options or sliders for a great many game mechanics. You have to design your features with such options in mind, in the first place. You need a dedicated core of testers with a similar mindset to the target audience to provide you frank feedback.

I wish you the best of luck!

Well, first, that mercs at WPP were made difficult and frustrating in early game by design. If it something too frustrating than answer is simple - just don't do that.
You suppose to get top tier gear before you attempt to attack those mercs. With proper gear overall difficulty is comparable to vanilla game.

But, people are mostly too stubborn to give up and try different aproach. It is quite possible to beat those mercs with starting gear, but you have to adopt your tactics, you can't fight them by standing on one spot like it is possible in vanilla game.

So, if you want to make adjustment, try to get yourself top tier gear, either, fully upgraded armour with camouflage effect or armour with better protection. You also have mines and IEDs to place on strategic places and lure enemies toward it. Plenty of other options too, either hit them from distance or at close range with help of rpg launcher or GL mounted on rifle.

But, like it is mentioned in linked article, it is not same thing if you play on powerful machine with plenty of frame per second or on old hardware that can't give much more than 20 FPS. Also it is not same thing if you are experienced gamer that play multiplayer games too or already have a lot of gaming hours in other difficult games that require quick reflexes. It is much easier when you play on powerful machine and have decent frame rate, simply because you can react to NPC action more quickly.

So, first thing to adjust is like Jasper already mentioned, lower down eye_range​​​​​​ from default of 250 down to 150, whatever value feels good for you. While it say it is eye_range, that value is also tied to NPC reaction time and accuracy. Meaning, when you lower it, not only that NPC will spot you from lower distance (value of 150 is still quite high, so you will not so likely notice change in distance too much), but NPC will be much slower to response when they aim at you and pull trigger. Also, they were less accurate too.

If that does not help, you can tweak other settings for camouflage effect.

aim_time_factor = 2.8
help_distance_factor = 0.4
help_timer_factor = 2.5

Increase aim time factor value up to 5. Above 5 makes NPC too retarded and too easy. What it does is to delay time when NPC aim to you and pull a trigger on rifle.
How much delay you need to be comfortable depends again how powerful machine you have and how skilled gamer you are. That kind of thing is very subjective and it is difficult to find middle ground that would please everyone. But, at least it is now adjustable trough new camouflage feature.

While there is a lot of skilled gamers out there who are able to beat those mercs with low tier/starting gear, it is not what is itended to be.
Try to use high tier equipment (you can use debug spawner for this) and test mercs at WPP with that, after you have made changes in config files.

Once you are comfortable with settings while using high tier gears, it should be reasonable balanced to the rest of NPC squads.

Yeah you're right I spent the last two days testing and when the aim time factor becomes too slow the AI just becomes retarded. I don't think I'm going to mess with those settings in particular because it'll just affect everything. Thank you so much for helping me out here Kcs123, I managed to make everything a lot easier thanks to your instructions but decided that I can't use it as a large tweak (so that other people can use it too) because it just makes the entire game unbalanced. I'm going to leave things as they are there as I don't feel there's much else I can do at this point for that mission anyway

Very useful to learn these things too, understanding the game mechanics a little more now which is very cool!

You are welcome. I hope that this piece of info can help anyone else who wants to make AI a bit easier. And that it will not be buried too quick in forum.