This mod will add new units, upgrades, abilities and bring some changes to existing ones to improve the gameplay and bring more strategy to the game.

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1.5 issues and ideas (Mods : SC Revolution Mod : Forum : General Discussion : 1.5 issues and ideas) Locked
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Jan 23 2013, 12:00pm Anchor


Mod is great, i have played few games, and here are my feelings. Some of them are nice, some of them are easy, some of them are stupid :) But here we go.

1) FIX Archon attack is not upgraded normal way and this Templar upgrade gives only 1 level. Even if this is by design then there is no info about it in tool tip for an upgrade.

2) What was wrong with ultralisk / battlecruiser / archon stats in game ? I see major change of it, just because of SC 2 and PvP ?

3) FIX Ultralisk do not have info about double regeneration just like hydralisk in its info panel

4) FIX I found AI for Roach is activating for very small range (even smaller then zergling) or do i miss something ?

5) NEW I have seen mods that ads two more fields for actions in action panel, can we move it here ?

6) FIX Siege tank is too powerful from the beginning of SC. Time to switch between modes +50% would be good countermeasure.

7) FIX Lets make medic can heal all Zerg units (including flying one, not only ground)

8) NEW What about adding some kind of concrete / lighter creep / power field under building sprites to show its actual size -> wall building etc.

9) NEW Improved borrowing for Zergs with Hive -> -66% time to borrow and borrowing for Ultralisk

10) FIX indication about building Armour (display it)

11) Organic spikes upgrade for Zergs -> enemy gets damage from attacking our building using melee units (from orcs W3)

12) NEW Any chance to increase number of selected units ? Even with smaller icons... 12 pro, 16 terr, 20 zerg

13) FIX Zerg cannon should not be priced to change from land -> air and vice versa, at least not full price (25M would be better)

14) NEW What about Zerg regenerate only on Creep ?

15) NEW Zergling move faster by 30% on Creep (for fast defensive)

16) NEW Roach can move when borrowed.

17) NEW Display info about actual damage of unit and number of shots in tool tip (scout, firebat, goliath, zealot)

18) FIX Zerg Guardians seems to be overpowered now when use in large group. I would set 50% to spawn broodling and give more time for broodlings.

19) FIX Broodlings are upgradable by Armour and weapon (why not now?)

20) NEW Add upgrades for defensive structures, Change base damage / rate / range / HP by 10% and add upgrade to give 20% more

21) NEW Add option with Alt or any other key to display actual objects coverage (to check if wall is filled etc), just draw rectangles under units according they real sprite size. Now its hard to tell if wall is ok or not.

22) NEW Terran turret upgrade -> to show enemy units on minimap outside range of sight taken from SC2. This would count also for siege tanks but no visual effect on main game screen.

23) NEW separate 2 button for workers: now rally point for general units is ok, but rally point for resources is hidden. Changing general rally point does not change resource rally point for workers.

24) NEW add upgrade to protoss arbiter to hide buildings also, not only units. This would be also for defensive tactics.

25) FIX, why carrier have 6+2 interceptors ? Option 4+4 was wrong ? Again, only because of SC2 ?

26) NEW, Let carrier be cheaper to support (like 3), but each interceptor takes 1/2 supply

27) FIX, General idea to decrease line of sight of some high end units (siege tank, battle cruiser) with rather longer range weapons (without changing weapon range) to have better combine tactics. Like tanks -1, vulture +1.

28) NEW, General idea to make numeric technologies cheaper by 25 or 33%, but takes longer by 33% or even 50%, to actually make longer high end games possible.

29) NEW Some time ago i have found a mod that ads 4th level of upgrades for armors and weapons. Probably easy to do, but what about balance issues ? This would make sense with point 28)

30) NEW Targatable resources (minerals and gas) to allow units to attack such object and temporarily disable it (it would regenerate it self in time to allow workers mine it again). Stats similar to larva or something.

31) FIX What about carriers cannot move when interceptor is being build ? Same with Raver (this is like morphing units in Zerg)

32) NEW Protoss buildings should have 30s delay after receive damage (not 45) for shield being recovered but shield is lost when building is unpowered by pylon (make sense to attack pylon in the long term). In General add +1 to shield regeneration and add continous -1 damage for no power, just like terrain burning buldings. This would be 0 when bulding is power on and -1 when not.

33) NEW Protoss shield regeneration speed is based in 50% on number of actual unit health (100% HP -> 100% shield regeneration, 1% HP -> 50% shield regeneration). Would make sense to use plague more.

34) FIX Zerg building should have their regeneration based on current health. The less HP, the stronger regeneration. 10% HP -> reg+20% , 50% HP -> reg no change, 90% HP -> reg -20%

35) FIX Zerg buildings that do not produce creep should not maintain it self without creep colony nearby, just like unpowered buildings for protoss. So remove all creep colonies, and creep will go away. Then other buildings will start to receive damage until death, just like terran burning. 

36) FIX Terran medic should have their ability turned on / off just like SCV. Sometimes it is good to work automatically, sometimes is not (like doing some spells manually)

37) NEW Bionic Terrain units would have their visibility reduced during being healed, because healing is now much longer range.

38) NEW display time cost in secs with minerals and gas when making new units / upgrades


Edited by: Bladko

Jan 23 2013, 1:50pm Anchor

2) BC are slightly OP now (I would nerf his air attack, to make valkyrie more significant) , but they have faster ground attack which  is good, because Terran is lacking with good airvsground unit (like Banshee from SC2). IMO the change was good.
5) +2 buttons to action panel? what for, if now there is enough space, and RavenWolf would have to rearrange panel commands.
6) switch time is now longer (siege=>normal). I agree that siege mode required nerfing but by: increasing missile flight time (not immediately hit target), +min range and slower attack rate.
17) agree, f.ex 7x2 for Firebat are better than 14.
22) ComSat (need nerf) is more useful. If you have just one expansion, you have actually unlimited vision (you can scan practically all the time). I use scan just to increase SiegeTank range for a while. For the turret I would increase offensive potential (more rocket) and/or HP, in late game turrets are obsolete.
25) NOO! if upgrade give +4 then its "MUST HAVE" upg, because it doubles the unit potential. 6 +2 is more balanced. Unless you want 4 +2x2 (double upgrade) then its even better idea.
27) agree. For BC and Tank, but Vulture is fast, does not have as far gaze.
28) just increase time = longer to max tech = losing player have more time
to catch up = more fun.
29) 3 is enough IMO. It
sufficiently obsoleting non-improved units and buildings. Take into-consideration additional unit-specific upgrade (like Incinerator Gautlets for Firebats).
30) unnecessary effort that Raven would have to make, with no significant gameplay improvment.
32) agree
34) agree
35) agree
36) IMO medic would work better if she heal slower and with slower EP drain. This way she would has more often enough Energy for spell (and healing in combat would be less significant and bizarre).
37) ? no sense. Even if you see one, then unit will use another unit Sight Range.

Jan 23 2013, 2:28pm Anchor

thanks for replay, i see your point for every point,

btw is this mod is open source or something ? many of those points are quite simple to implement / test if they are good for gameplay or not

Jan 23 2013, 9:59pm Anchor

Hi Tom,
Thank to post your thoughts. Ill give you a short reply for every point (as there are lot of stuff), but if you want more details for some point just let me know.

1) I see a issue in archon attack not scaling with upgrades, but also protoss have lot of units gaining damage with the ground weapons upgrade (and I will probably add at least other ground unit). So still trying to find a way to balance that.

2) Lot of changes of this mod are done to add more realism, trying to not break the gameplay. Im also adding some SC2 stuff, but im not trying to make this a SC2 mod
Ultralisk it's a heavy unit whit gigants claw, so when attack it should hit any nearby unit.
Archon and battle cruiser changes where done to make armor more important. They have fast attack rate but less damage, so high armor units will reduce more damage.

3) sure

4) I will have to look how to fix that. may be i can change the unit used for the roach so the AI can use id better.

5) if you mean more buttons, isn't possible as far as I know. Those mods only change the visual interface, but the new buttons slots aren't usable.

6) Siege tank already have some nerf in its supply and cost, but I will probably have to make other changes to this unit

7) I don't see a bug that medics cant heal air units. It have sense from a realistic point of view. I know that SCV can repair air, but im thinking on maybe add a specialized unit for air repair air, and remove the ability from SCV

8 it's a good suggestion, but not sure if the graphic will feet in every terrain type

9) Not sure if burrowing speed can be increased (apart from removing some frames in the animation), I have tested before, but it seem that it have to execute some internal functions when the unit burrow/unburrow before it can start to receive orders again.

10) Not sure if possible, I think that only building with weapons display the armor value.

11) It wont have a great impact as there are only a few melee units in the game.

12) not for now.

13) yes, I have thinking on reduce the morphing cost.

14,15) for now I don't have a good way to identify areas covered with creep.

16) I was trying to implement this, but still dont find a way to make it. But I have other options.

17) isn't possible to add to every unit an indicator like the valkyrie ‘per rocket'. I can specify the amount of attacks but most weapons (like scout and goliath missiles) automatically multiply the damage by 2.

18) random chances aren't good for a strategic game. I can reduce the attack rate, damage or other stats if they are OP.

19) Broodlings receive ground armor and melee weapons upgrades

20) I was thinking on upgrades for defensive buildings, but there arent much upgrades slot left to use. So Im waiting until finish with the unit upgrades to se if there are slots to use for buildings.

21) It will be a good feature but I see it very hard to implement.

22) Not sure if possible to show the units only in the minimap.

23) The engine only allow 1 rally point for each building. I have done a lot of work to make them work for drones.

24) The option of make a building invisible can be interesting. But im not sure if make it an upgrade for arbiter. May be a late game ability (for nexus probably) that allow to turn invisible a building for some time.

25) Carriers with 4 interceptors are useless. With 6 you can build a few carriers to support other units and there are still effective, you can choose if make the upgrade or spend the resources on other units/upgrades

26) it will have some advantages and some drawbacks, I might give it a try.

27) I think it can be tested, ghost have max sight now, so they can be used to support those units.

28) The cost its fine I think, but if they take too long it can have a great drawback, as the player that isn't spending resources in upgrades will have more units to attack, and a better army until the upgrade is researching.

29) Increasing the level is very easy to make. But 3 it's a good amount and its balanced. Consider that not every race have the same amount of upgrades.

30) may be I can make some ability for a specific unit like the beta HotS entomb, that disables mineral patchs for a while. Im not sure if allowing normal units to do that will be a good idea.

31) That will make those units very vulnerable, considering that both units move slow, and the interceptors, scarabs are they only deffence.

32) Seems like a good idea, and its easy to implement

33) main drawback of protoss units if that they cant regenerate to full health. If the shield regeneration its lower for damaged units, they will be even more weak.

34) it's a nice idea. May be unlocked with the improved mitosis upgrade, instead of giving a flat regeneration bonus.

35) it's a good idea, but like in 14 and 15. I still didn't find a way to identify creep covered areas. It would also make nydus canal to lose health unless I make nydus to produce creep.

36) it will be a good feature, I will see if I can implement it

37) not sure if can be implemented unless I blind the unit. Also it wont have much impact

38) I don't think possible for now to add more info on units/upgrades.

Łagi wrote:
36) IMO medic would work better if she heal slower and with slower EP drain. This way she would has more often enough Energy for spell (and healing in combat would be less significant and bizarre).

I think medics are more balanced now, with a higher gas cost and lower healing rate early game.
Do you think medics should heal even slower than now (without the upgrade)?

Edited by: RavenWolf

Jan 24 2013, 12:50pm Anchor


I would rather to let players choose if option is good or bad for gameplay and just stick wit add ideas / designs / implement them but not to decide which is better.

39) Mac version is same modding as PC version ?

40) Which mod tools have you used ? How to contribute ? I am a indie dev with my own mobile app company btw.

41) What about MULE for terran, just and ordinary SCV (with some upgraded sprite or not, maybe a hero or something) that can mine as twice but cannot repair nor build anything. Build in CC as second unit.

42) Upgraded supply depot is somehow akward i think. Can terran unit be morphed like zerg unit into another building ? Addon over building is minor issue but its akward. 

43) I think siege tank in siege mode could work same as psionic storm, there is a damage repeated over time (3 explosions one after another with fixed damage and delay about 0.7 sec) and then larger cooldown like 200% of current

44) Siege tank could have ability to use HE or AP shells, that would change its main cannon from higher damage / not splash into lower damage / splash damage. Or this is already implemented for normal / siege mode i think so its useless....

45) Siege tank in siege mode should have really reduced range of sight, its artillery after all..

46) I would love to see battlecruiser with new ability: this is carpet bombing using new button that create siege tank explosion under battle cruiser. This would be sprite animation from siege tank for explosion. What is difference between yamato cannon and this... yamato should target air only, bomb for land only.

47) Protos scout are somehow like German heavy fighter He 110, they should have longer range / smaller cooldown but should rotate slower. This should be used mainly as front attack and would be weaker against small agile fighters. Same with Battlecruiser.

48) Does Zerg AI using mutalisk with devourer ? Enemy unit with 9 spores from devourer takes not 9/3/1 but 18/12/10 damage. This is a real killer combination. Not sure if AI is aware of it.

49) Any chance to get Dark Swarm animation more detailed where exactly spell is active or not ? I think proper alpha edit on borders would be enough to show spell range (this is mainly for zerglings micro)

50) Is is possible to add numbers of HP lost per damage over enemy units like in many RTS game ?

51) I think battle cruiser should have their original stats but rotation speed should be much slower, this is like tank destroyer from word of tanks. Huge gun but no turret. This would make sense to attack them from behind or so.

52) Zerg overload could be redesigned. Original upgrades should allow to mutate original overload into other unit with only choose one from 3 things. Super cargo ship (or even healer for transporting units), much faster scout for offensive or slow moving but high visibility / detector unit for defense. All zerg units have one purpose with path to choose for player where to mutate. I see no reason why overload is different in this matter.

53) Upgrade for ghost to set nuclear bomb on building. Special action that target building, takes 15 sec to arm a bomb, but can be triggered any time later on by pressing same action again. Other things are same. Cannot be used on units (at least not on biological).

54) Why medics cannot use stimpacks for faster healing / mana recovery ? :)

55) Any chance to make multiply units use same ability ? like spells ? I know this is huge rebalance btw but would be nice to select 12 marines or something and use common skill once. Or do i miss something in the game ? :)

56) Medics IMHO should be on field / rapid by low effective way to support organic units. There should be another way, much better but outside battle to heal organic units like heal units in barracks or something... or make a hospital based on barracks... or heal in transport etc... If not make a medikit skill for infranty that heals 10 HP but blinds unit for 10 sec or something (like stimpacks from fallout). This is same mechanics as increased regeneration for zergs when burrowed and shield regeneration for protoss when not attacked for some time.

57) Imho zerg units should not regenerate when moving, but probably cannot do it.

58) SCV should use stimpacks too for faster repair or mining

59) Zerg upgrade to generate larvas faster by 50%. Btw does size of hatchery impact rate of larva spawning ?

60) Is it possible to make vulture use mines same as raven ? not fixed 3 mines for free but build a mine and lay it down for 15 minerals. Max 2-3 mine can be stored at a given time. This would make more sense to use them as a mine layers but with a cost of huge micromanagment. Same as protos units. 

61) This new heavy terrain bionic unit should have enter bunker but with cost of 4, despite is temporary small sprite.

62) Does bunker increase range of units inside ? If so this should be an upgrade to bunkers (+50HP, +1 Arm, +1 Range for units inside). Bunker is a fortification so why its not heavier then other buldings like spore colony ? (arm 2)

63) Nexus ability to speed up process should be more productive. I found i actually lose more time to manage using this spell then gaining from speed. I think repeat button or something would be nice.... only check would be enough if there is effect active AND there is 50 energy.

64) Ability to replenish or transfer mana from one repair station to another repair station. Also would make sense to increase range of using it by 2 or 3 (for land units that are in small base) and decrease speed of replenishment (same as shield regeneration from SC2). Also this building should have upgrade to increase energy regeneration by 50% as magic units.

65) Is it possible to add zerg units an order to stay inside dark swarm if already under it ? Something like hold ground + patrol but with max range to go from actual position to possible enemy. If outside this range then do not go there but stay is save place. This would be used for any unit, but i think mainly for zerg units under dark swarm.

66) Any chance to add auto explore action for units ?

67) Would be nice to add zergs some kind of passive damage to enemy units that are wondering on creep (like Russian partisans). But we cannot detect creep now.... lets check then distance from unit to creep generator (hatcher, lair, hive, sunken colony, spore colony).

68) Same as above protoss pylon could increase cost of spell usage for enemy units in range (or mana regeneration speed or just mana drain). Zerg would drain life when near colonies, protoss would drain energy when near pylon.

Jan 24 2013, 1:11pm Anchor

RavenWolf wrote:Do you think medics should heal even slower than now (without the upgrade)?

Nope, I just play few game and must admin than Medic work flawlessly now. She have only one spell (Restoration) with AoE and every thing (healing speed, range, Energy, Ability, bigger gas cost was great change) is right IMO. Please ignore my mumbling (its based on prev version). I don't test Healing Upgrade however.

RavenWolf wrote:7) I don't see a bug that medics cant heal air units. It have sense from a realistic point of view. I know that SCV can repair air, but im thinking on maybe add a specialized unit for air repair air, and remove the ability from SCV

Agree, how about adding native airplane repair ability to Dropship (and remove from SCV)? Well you probably think about the same. Dropship is now useless if not desanting troops  (ComSat is better for scouting). It would be ok, if she doesnt cost 100/100, was late game unit or required TechLab (why BTW? Naked starport [build in frontline or just landed] can not be used to create Transports, in critical moments). I dont even want to mention Overlord here which have lot more roles and is more interesting (losing it cost you supply).

Jan 24 2013, 1:33pm Anchor

terrains have units with multirole, zergs are rather single role with exeption of overload

SCV cannot repair airship, and dropship can is very nice idea, keep in mind that it would need just basic startport to build. Can AI use it ? or mod is only for MP ? And it fits in combined arms idea for terrain in general. What about animation ?

i hope i am not a troll by posting 70 ideas in one thread

69) -Extra Supplies add-on for Supply Depots: add 4 to supply limit. -> actually its 8+8 not 8+4 so its like a bug to me

Edited by: Bladko

Jan 24 2013, 2:05pm Anchor
Someone wrote:I would rather to let players choose if option is good or bad

The only person who can choose how it be is RavenWolf. Other can just play or not.

41). don't like it. one simple worker (or 2) is ok. Economy is not the main fun part of the game (its not Dwarf Fortress).

42). no, i don't find it akward - for me its perfect. 

43).  AoE is nice idea, but I think its too extreme change from vanilla tank. 

44). How about give tank native siege mode with same dmg (30 exp; +3) just more range and slower firerate, while upgrade will give new shells for Siege mode?
45). agree (again)

46). BCrus have his one skill and I think its enough. However bombing could be added for Dropship (as late upgrade). It would give him new role.

47). "Heavy airplane weak vs agile plane". Protoss Scout?  What? I disagree.

51). Agree, they now quite powerful.

54) Approve. Nice idea. And managing infantry groups would be easier (no need to deselect medic for stim).
55) I wish that too

 56) I belive its part of race differences. I  don't think another healing is needed.

 57). No, i dont need more micro with SCV.

 61) why? 1 Storm=16 dmg;  2xStorm= 32; 6x4 Marine=24. And Storm has burst (so 50% vs small). Its not unbalanced and provide new options for team in bunker (Mar+FB+Storm; 2 Storm; etc.) BTW I probably have old version of 1.5, because my Stormravens can not enter bunkier.

 62) bunkers are fine. Its one of the best static defense now i think (compare to sunken colony or photos cannon).

 66) explore command would be nice (less micro). However I never scout with Terk because have ComSat.

Bladko wrote:i hope i am not a troll by posting 70 ideas in one thread

No, I find you as a very productive and creative.

Edited by: Łagi

Jan 25 2013, 2:33pm Anchor
Łagi wrote: The only person who can choose how it be is RavenWolf. Other can just play or not.

Im not making the mod for myself, so I like to hear players opinions and suggestions, I cant implement every single suggestion made by people. But if some idea have potential or its supported for other players, and is possible to make I will try to implement it.

39) I don't know...
40) DataEdit, Firegraft, iceCC, GPTP for plugins. some graphic editors, TBL editor, SCAIedit.
There are lot of ways to contribute, feedback and ideas are welcomed. Other moders are helping me sharing new graphics and effects that commonly take lot of time to do. At some point I would try to make a campaign for the game, so some help with maps will be useful.
41) I don't know if I will touch economy aspects for now. But maybe I can test some changes at some point.
42) I don't think that it's an easy way to make other buildings to morph.
43) that attack can be interesting, but may be for other unit
44) Switchable weapons its something I want to add, but again probably for a different unit
48) AI build some devourers but don't really sure if combine them propertly with muta, there are some advanced tools for AI modding that I haven't tested yet, so don't know what its possible to make.
49) Dark swarm affect a square area, a square graphic will looks weird
50) I might be possible, but it will be a mess of numbers
52) I don't like overlords to provide zerg detection so early and with no extra cost. May be give detection to other unit or make overlord morph like SC2 overseer
54) Interesting idea
55) I don't know how to make it for the moment. But if I find a way I will implement it
57) its possible to make, but I don't see a good reason behind it. Also burrowed units regenerate faster, and cant move.
59) I was thinking on some upgrade or ability to spawn larva and creep faster
60) its possible, but can be overpowered, as mines don't take supply, so you will be able to cover a whole area with a single vulture
62) Yes, it provides 2 extra range, bunkers benefit from the building armor upgrade and it's the only defensive building that scale with weapon upgrades (but also only thet requires supply)
65) I think that its possible
66) How to determine what explore is? Which direction will move? You can queue moving orders to explore, and there is also the patrol command.
67) Proximity detection wouldnt work in all cases. Areas where creep don't spawn, like impassable terrain. also creep don't spread to higher ground. If a building its constructed creep takes time to expand. And if destroyed takes time to leave.
68) unlike zerg creep, pylons fields can be detected by proximity. I have made shields to regenerate faster inside pylon aura in an alpha version of this mod.
69) Yep, that's a bug. It should only provide 4 supply

Bladko wrote: SCV cannot repair airship, and dropship can is very nice idea, keep in mind that it would need just basic startport to build. Can AI use it ? or mod is only for MP ? And it fits in combined arms idea for terrain in general. What about animation ? .

Dropship able to repair air units can be a good improvement. But yes, I will need to tweak the graphics and make some effect. Not sure if Ai can use it.
The mod is not only for MP, but AI scripts are hard to make and takes some time.

Jan 25 2013, 3:40pm Anchor
RavenWolf wrote:Bladko wrote: SCV cannot repair airship, and dropship can is very nice idea, keep in mind that it would need just basic startport to build. Can AI use it ? or mod is only for MP ? And it fits in combined arms idea for terrain in general. What about animation ? . Dropship able to repair air units can be a good improvement. But yes, I will need to tweak the graphics and make some effect.

Maybe adding small airplane, like interceptor from carrier, that will fly out from Dropship and auto-repair in range? It could be just white dot with light streak, which would fly around repairing object.

Jan 25 2013, 10:01pm Anchor

I had a similar ability in mind called repair drones, but I don't know if I can make to work like interceptors (I mean, to be actually units). But I can try to make some visual effect for it.

Jan 30 2013, 2:25pm Anchor

any chance to contribute ? does mod is closed sourced ? at least for dat files ?

Jan 30 2013, 4:35pm Anchor

This last version is somewhat protected (as im using content form other mods/people). previous versions havent any kind of protection so any file can be extracted and edited (exept from the plugins codes that are compiled file).

Things that takes me more time are AIscripts, and graphics. So any help on that will be welcomed.
But also feedback, ideas, and balance suggestions are apreciated.

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