Rise of the Reds – or ROTR for short – improves upon the C&C Generals formula while also adding its own distinct elements to it. Most notably, the mod adds two completely new factions, the tank-heavy Russian Federation and the defence-oriented European Continental Alliance. In addition, the three original factions China, USA and GLA have been greatly expanded and redesigned in a variety of ways, with several new units, buildings, powers and abilities to explore and combine in your in-game tactics.
Ever since the coordinated destruction of the major European air bases at the onset of the Russo-European War, Russia's Frontal Aviation had free reign over Europe. That was until the United States made their entry into the war in summer 2048. Since then, the skies above the continent became contested between Berkuts and Raptors while the European air forces resumed their operations from secured air fields in Scotland, Ireland, Spain and Portugal. As the fighting continued, the casualty rates of the Russian Air Force soared out of control. The toll was especially heavy on the venerable Su-25 ground attack plane, which stood no chance against the advanced Western fighter jets without escorts. In February 2049, the remaining planes were ordered back to the Motherland. In their stead, the Russian military ramped up the production of the Su-50 fighter-bomber. Originally reserved for only the most elite of fighter squadrons due to its high production costs, the 'Sokol' was now deployed in considerable numbers in order to provide close air support for missions that the Su-25 could no longer accomplish. It is armed with six powerful anti-tank missiles and its advanced stealth characteristics allow for covert intrusions into contested air space, making the Sokol the ideal plane for tank hunting and suppression of enemy air defences.
Iiiiinteresting. So 47 stays as the only AA plane.
Though, the wing looks a bit iffy at this angle.
is this the update to the older PAK FA render or is it a completely new plane or just a name change from PAK FA to SOKOL?
Basically, we've decided to introduce the PAKFA earlier than initially planned. As of version 1.85, it will replace the Frogfoot, which proved impossible to balance without making it useless. The Frogfoot was so powerful that all Russian strategies revolved around unlocking the air force and using Frogfoots, which completely undermined the idea of making the Russian air force optional and designing them around tanks and gunships. So instead, we added a fast, stealthy jet that allows Russia to wipe out priority ground vehicles while we also increased the effectiveness of their helicopters. As a result, the Russian air force is now legitimately useful, but optional rather than an essential no-brainer unlock that you're always going to get anyways.
Than the tanks should be better in vers. 1.85...
Because as far we're concern this "tank heavy" faction don't look like the one you guys describe before (powerful, resilient, tough, etc, etc.)... If the Su-25 is so OP. Than the ground vehicles would be of better use than it was in 1.802 ??? A little insight about this which looks like its going to happen if the people have the 4 fingers in the forehead (smart enough): since the Su-25 with its superb ability to terrify ground enemies, you guys are planning to boost even higher the ECA with the Goshawk with Su-25 ability. If that is true than chances are its going to be terribly imbalanced (an aircraft that can self-rearm with a crazy barrage of rockets).
Except the Goshawk likely won't be anything like the Frogfoot and its power would still be counter-balanced by its rarity due to the ECA having a production bottleneck on air units with their single DZ limit.
Russia's tanks are all right in the current test version. The only one that was extensively modified was the Golem, which will be shown in a future update. Besides that, we've added a new upgrade that significantly improves the survivability of Russian helicopters, thus making the intended combination of tanks and gunships a lot more viable than it is right now.
Sokol means "eagle" btw.
Nope. Sokol means "falcon"
Thanks, I knew it was a different genre of that bird of prey but I kind of lacked the English word for it in my mind atm.
And yes, judging by the designation it is indeed PAK FA, as current RL PAK FA designation is T-50, and T is used in prototypes' designation.
its very nice work when will be update for gla and eca?
whats happened with frogfot?
American Raptors showed up...
But seriously, they are currently removed for balance reasons...
Su-25 seems to stay but with greatly reduced role and numbers.
read stuff that was previously commented
Ilke a boss
Just to clarify this again: The Frogfoot will be removed in 1.85 because its extreme damage made it too essential for Russian strategies and nerfing it was not possible without making it redundant. The Sokol serves as a replacement in the sense that it's a pure ground attack plane, but it's different in that it is fast, stealthy and more capable of picking off priority targets like heavy tanks, artillery and anti-air, making it useful enough to warrant unlocking the VVS based on circumstances while keeping it balanced enough to ensure that the VVS would actually be an optional choice rather than a mandatory no-brainer unlock as it is right now.
*About to fall down on the floor sobbing*
Farewell dear Gratch. You were awesome and we will miss you, "twenty-fifth"...
Just kidding.
As on the serious note, I think that's right, so thankfully there will be reasons to not waste a gen point for airfield.
BTW, will Su-25 return as any general's exclusive weapon? Just asking, if it won't no need to explain why.
I support the statement to bring the Frogfoot back in 2.0 as a general exclusive.
It wasn't a statement, it was a question.
But the reasons are most likely to make Frogfoot to be gone forever.
The Frogfoot will -not- be re-added at a later point in time. We removed it due to the imbalances/design issues it created, but it was also one of the few leftover legacy models from the pre-SWR days and we're not gonna re-model an Su-25 from scratch just so that we can use it for a token airstrike ability or some other minor role in 2.0. Naturally, it is a bit sad to see such an iconic aircraft disappear, but we simply came to a point where the benefits of replacing it outweighed the benefits of keeping it.
Would the Frogfoot possibly be repurposed into a general-specific GP to limit it's use, in so doing creating a balance? Or would that be too much like the A-10 Strike?
Unlikely. We are not going to contrive some redundant ability just to keep the Frogfoot in. If we did that, it'd still leave us with the issue that we would have to re-model the plane just for a single ability since we want to update all pre-SWR Russian models to our own.
well...that frogfoot really gave you an idea that Russians were quite brutal but now they seem a little bit more...tactical...but I still think that the balance is good...cause Russians already have very power ful bombardment abilities gained thru different units and power ups..but still..going to miss it..
It could be a specific generals special power, like the A-10 strike, but to one specific general, or it could be available only in the world builder and be used in some missions. If you aren't gonna do any of that, at least leave the actual model available in the world builder for people to use it in cenarios
well...as a Model it looks pretty casual like...I mean its not unique...what it did was unique...and yeah generals powers could be present with these but russians already have many other stuff that is far more proper for General powers...
how about you use frogfoots in the tech airstrip airstrike? just for show
maybe...just like those old tank drops power up...but we still know that Shockwave studios will do far more good then just expected > w <
Looks cool! Good Work
the SOKOL is So Cool!
I see what you did there XD
I think we should make a tribute video to the Glorious SU-25 Frogfoot, thanking it for its long service.
It has always been one of my favorite units in ROTR.
Thought this would be the Air Superiorty Fighter when i first saw it, although it is nice to see it as a Ground Attack plane. I hope it has a cool voice to go along :)
It was originally meant to be a Berkut replacement for Aleksandr when we should it a few years ago, but in that case, it would have basically just been a stealthy pseudo-Raptor. Now it's a badass tactical ground attack plane.
Well, Alexander can have another more advanced plane, or just an AA version of it
As of right now, all Russian Generals will have the same selection of fixed wing aircraft. If one of them had an exclusive jet, players would be railroaded into unlocking the VVS Air Support so that they wouldn't miss out on that exclusive content, which would go against the whole 'optional air force' element we had intended for Russia. In addition to turning the PAKFA into a stealth ground attacker, we're also going to apply some changes to the Berkut which should make it a more capable multirole/anti-air fighter. That way, you get the option to unlock two useful support planes that give you a little edge, but which are not blatantly essential to winning as Russia like the Frogfoot used to be.
please don't hate me for this. i would like to make a suggestion to the team, since you guys will mostly scrap some units and stuff from ROTR, why not release the scrapped units as free to use models? i know that what i'm asking for is too much and i know that suggestions are a no-no, but i think this can help in the mod and the team's popularity as well as the c&c modding community. and also, consider the saying "one mans trash is another mans treasure."
The Frogfoot we were using is allready a free model availible from the call to arms mod which was released a long time ago.
Interesting choice making your Su-50 a predominantly ground attack focused aircraft. I have to admit I'm slightly disappointed as I thought the PAK FA or Su-50 would feature as a highly versatile air-superiority fighter.
A mod does often differ from reality and I'm certainly not criticising that. Good work all the same, I shall look forward to trying our little friend out... If a little tentatively.
On another note... I find it extremely strange that the Frogfoot would have to be retired due to its ineffectiveness in performing its role due to the entry of American Airpower yet the A-10 gets a refit and "distinguishes itself against Russian armoured divisions" even though both aircraft pretty much perform the exact same roles except the Su-25 is faster and in some cases superior to the A-10. If the Russian Air Force had a serious hand in Airpower in the European Theatre then I'm afraid in reality the A-10 would suffer exactly the same fate as the Frogfoot, with perhaps even more severe consequences.
Yes I'm over analysing this, but to me this is quite a glaring error lore-wise...
Well, with American entry into (effectively) WW III they also brought a truckload of F-22s thus securing the upper hand in the air war, which means that they can deploy their ground attack aircraft without fearing enemy fighters...
Or maybe the US in ROTR is a bit more desperate and are throwing everything (including the kitchen sink) they have at the Russians, even planes that really shouldn't be on the modern (2040s) battlefield...
A bit of stretch I know, but that's the best theories I can come up with at the moment.
Even if the US managed to secure air-supremacy within so shorter time I highly doubt the A-10's capabilities against sophisticated ground based AA. The only possibility where it could become remotely useful would be in the use of long-range (enough to out-range standard Russian air defence networks) ordinance or where a window has been completely cleared of any threat to aircraft and the A-10 can perform its role with effect (highly unlikely seeming as infantry fired MANPAD would be fielded in numerous numbers as point-defence.)
I KNOW I'M OVER THINKING THIS! But hey, ROTR's lore is fun and in-depth analysis never hurt anyone.
Back to the topic: Given Russia's current aerial technology I'm going to guess that the Su-47 is the more stealthy mainstay replacement for today's Su-35, and seeming as the Su-35 can well and truly give the Raptor a run for its money I'm guessing the Su-47 can take on a Raptor (in ZH lore a mass produced downgraded version of the real F-22 remember) fair and square. In summary, air dominance by the USAAF would take a long fought and brutal air war (talking months) and only IF they won a decisive victory would the possibility of restoring the A-10 to a half functional CAS aircraft be effective. And that's a big if.
Allow me to chime in in the 'over-analyzing' game...
In the Real World, the Su-35 is not a match for the Raptor. The -47 is not particularly stealthy, nor was it designed as such. It was designed as a super-maneuverable, front-swept wing testbed. In combat, stealth>>>maneuverability.
Ergo, the (real)Raptor eats the (real)-47's lunch.
Now as you said, this is a game where things are different. In order to suspend disbelief, either A) the devs are going to add stealth to the Raptor therefore making an air war victory more plausible, B) assume the Raptors in the story have stealth but has been removed for balance purposes, or C) a deus ex which will explain everything that has yet to be revealed :)
My $0.02
We're going with option B)
Even though the common in-universe F-22 is a more economical downgrade model (downgraded from godlike to merely superior, so to say), it still has stealth capabilities in-lore, but not in-game for balancing/design reasons. If we had stealth Raptors in-game, they would likely render the Nighthawk redundant due to being more economical and having multirole capabilities.
Storywise, the ECA/USA are regaining air superiority above Europe because the Americans throw superior numbers, tech and experience into the fray. After all, the USAF was described as the only branch that didn't suffer serious budget cuts and the US are still established as the world's supreme air power in the setting. Them throwing their weight into the fray against Russia after three years of wartime attrition should make a difference.
Su-35 is not a match for the Raptor you say? My dear sir you have much to learn about the avionics of current and next generation technology. I won't have you on about this here as it ain't really the place. But.... Here is an in depth break down Ausairpower.net
Stealth is a fairytale, the reason Russia's focus is more about agility, payload, speed, range, and detection is because of the very reason that the term "stealth" was nullified a long time ago with the invention of passive Doppler radar amongst other things, making VLO a secondary advantage. Russia is making leaps and bounds in both BVR and VR combat, and are far further ahead than what you give them credit for.
Ausairpower.net
You need to not believe the drivel that spills out of Carlo Kopp's mouth. That man has a very specific agenda against stealth aircraft in general and the F35 in particular, and has been debunked on numerous occasions by people that know what they are talking about and whose opinions I trust.
I can only tell you that you do not, in fact, know as much about the subject as you think you do. A report on a few tests of dubious accuracy created by a man who would see the F-111 restored as the principle Australian strike aircraft does not an argument make, sir. Especially when decades of studies, tests, and analysis say otherwise.
As for why passive Doppler and other VLF systems are not a hard counter to stealth and what the direction of the Russian (and Chinese) aviation programmes is, I do not have the time to go into it right now. If you really want to talk more feel free to PM me and we can get more into it without cluttering up the chat. I am usually pretty busy but I'm happy to chat if you don't mind waiting several hours for a reply :)
Well, if you wish to continue this discussion I'd encourage you to head on over to the Aircraft Group here on ModDB, as there are several members who would be more than happy to discuss the current balance of air power across the globe.
I prefer not to hold a discussion over PM for various reasons.
Possibly. I only really brought it up for your benefit and anyone else in the thread (that means you karma klowns) who did not know the whole story. I am confident with the information I have on the subject, and have no desire to seek out a long-winded debate. I have a limited amount of free time to spend, and arguing with people on the internet is always a waste of time. All the same I might pop in later on if I have time.
I look forward to it.
Sooo... nothing changed about the model and texture?
Just the stars on the wings other that no.
sadface.jpg
Almost thought so. The cockpit area still looks kinda funky and the overall color scheme looks a bit out of place for the other units