Revamp Expansion Mod (RVE) The Ultimate Supreme Commander 2 Experience (New Scale, New Units, New Ability's, New Game)

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Discussion over the dynamics of Revamp in general, along with a three point statement over experimentals, game strategy and faction diversity...

Posted by leosake on Feb 28th, 2013


I created this post so that people can discuss and elaborate on the strategy dynamics of Revamp mod, and what I mean about strategy dynamics, dynamics in a strategy game are basically the elements of the game that the player cannot change, but can manipulate to his own benefits, some eamples given:

  • the rules of engagement
  • the options available (sea, air, ground)
  • the weaknesses and the advantages of each faction
  • economy manipulation
  • zoning
  • etc.

There threethings that I will state in my initial post, but feel free to elaborate on any aspect of the dynamics mentioned above...

UEF not having enough tanks

The first thing that I wanted to discuss is the reason of me and Avitus developing more mechs than tanks for UEF. There is no specific reason on that other than the love we have both for mechs! But besides this there are plenty of treaded experimentals for UEF, and to mention some:

  • Fatboy
  • Juggernaut
  • Riot tank (not sure about the name)

As far as the actual T1-T2-T3 units, there are many treaded units spread out the tiers, with one more coming in T3 (cannot say more at the moment other than it is really powerful but needs micro), and even some wheeled vehicles at T1 and T2...

UEF AA Experimental

Someone stated in the "summary" page that he was worried when a Cybran player is going to get 15 Soulrippers, he wont be able to fight back having UEF... My thoughts on that are the following:

"If a player spends time (and resources) to build 15 soul rippers, the other player will have the equivalent of 4000 simple fighters...trust me through my experience even against heavy turtler players, nobody has the patience and time to risk building that many experimentals of ONE TYPE....by the time you have your first one (or if you truly are good second one) the other player will harass you and force you to spend resources towards something else..."

which brings me to the last thing that I wanted to state, and is indirectly related to the second part...

Rock-Paper-Scissors Dynamics

I don't really see the whole point of eliminating advantages and disadvantages in factions, advantages should be applicable every here and there inside an RTS...for example the UEF has a clear advantage in its navy, this doesn't make the rest factions navies useless, you just have to put more effort on outsmarting your enemy, while you use YOUR advantages like ground forces with Aeon...I hate rock-paper-scissor RTSs like Starcraft were all factions are equal on all points...There should be weaknesses, and a good strategist could and should surpass them with his advantages....

Post comment Comments  (50 - 60 of 60)
Rtys8
Rtys8 Mar 12 2013, 8:08am says:

I have just thought of a hypothetical way how the Monkeylord 2 and it's successor now may actually work with some tankiness AND stealth,and still the Aeon Colossi family still reigns supreme in a direct fight against it,thus staying true to the designs and history.

Back in the old days,the ML had more DPS than the GC,but it still won easily against 4-5 MLs,why?
It was because the ML in the old days was weak,a price for having high DPS,thus forcing it into an Assassin role.
A Glass Cannon.

But,what if the Cybran Nation wanted the ML 2 to be a partly functional for a different role?
A role,they never were able to play well throughout history.

The answer would be an Assassin Bruiser.In this case, a sort of OffTank.

(Please not Tanky DPS,the Colossi family and the Seraphim were extremely good at hoarding veterancy in FA!)

+1 vote     reply to comment
Rtys8
Rtys8 Mar 12 2013, 8:54am replied:

Hmm wait, i got soemthing,but not the exact idea yet...almost...

+1 vote     reply to comment
Rtys8
Rtys8 Mar 12 2013, 11:39am replied:

*head is spinning*
I think i got it,but i don't?
Hmm MOBA terms don't exactly translate well,but the design mechanics do....in a way.

Here's how i think should be after i rethought the scenario anyway and did some tests on the old FA counterparts.Back to how it was,having some differences.

Aeon Colossus III - OffTank Bruiser. Main point is lots of lots of tons HP/armor.
Decent-Good DPS from main weapon,enough to destroy any units in a 1v1 fight,but it's not good enough against tough stuff like defenses......

Cybran ML 2s - Its probably a Tanky DPS compared to the old ML now.Main point is lots of DPS.
Now with Decent-Good HP/Armor to take some hits.

Yep,i think that's how it makes sense now.
That should be the status quo as it was.

The Colossus always wins because it had tons more hp than the Monkeylord.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Drakalas
Drakalas Mar 22 2013, 12:56pm says:

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but are missiles going to stay the way they are right now? What I mean is that it's always bothered me that most of the anti-land missiles in sc2 didn't track targets, they are dead-fire with a few exceptions. Are they going to stay that way, or are you guys going to make them track targets?

+1 vote     reply to comment
GuardPatroller
GuardPatroller Mar 27 2013, 12:07am says:

If we're talking strategic values, what absolutely needs to happen is the Aeon stop getting so screwed every time. It's as if they're the useless "oh, we plan on removing them anyway" faction. I miss Black Sun days where Aeon controlled 98% of the Galaxy and firing (or capturing) Black Sun was Cybran and UEF last resort.

Also, land and air units shouldn't be so weak. If you have an ACU and you use overcharge, you should be able to remove a good amount of units but not an entire fleet. And don't nerf overcharge, then it becomes useless and an ACU will never gain the first level (building only gives 1XP point per structure). What I'm saying is, make it so that your units are worth something. It should be possible to be overrun with land units which can kill the ACU. Maybe increase the damage they do. Also, why do Auroras only have 200hp?

If there's something you don't know how you should go about changing, look to SC:FA. Great game, they worked the hell out of it. A T3 tank may be much less powerful than it is in SC:FA, but 10-15 of them should be able to handle an unprotected (unupgraded) ACU. But we don't need a weak, cowardly commander either. Basically, 10 T1 = 1 T2, 10 T2 = 1 T3, 15 T3 = 1 T4, 3 T4 = 1 T5. If you deviate too much, you finish with overpowered experimentals and crappy regular units.

Do forgive me if you've already fixed some of this, I broke my computer February of last year and hadn't played since (with what computer?) so I'm just saying what I remember.

+1 vote     reply to comment
leosake
leosake Mar 27 2013, 10:39am replied:

"what I'm saying is, make it so that your units are worth something."

Consider it done.. :) T1-T2-T3 battles are going to last longer than in SC2, and similarly to SC1:FA.. the units wont be cannon fodders anymore :)

+2 votes     reply to comment
GuardPatroller
GuardPatroller Mar 29 2013, 2:27pm replied:

That's awesome, loving it :) I love how the entire mod's going too, but there is one thing that does concern me. Also, is it possible to increase the XP earned through building? Maybe make it 50 per minute of building, or so, if possible.

It seems like the unit and T4/5 (experimental) balance is doing pretty great, but is the ACU outmatched? My computer broke and I haven't had the chance to get a new one (to test the revamp and all) but the ACU shouldn't be too weak in comparison.

Like, an ACU should always win in a 1v3 against T3 units. Any more, and you should hunker. My playing style is to build my home base, then send the ACU and a support army off somewhere to build additional bases, with engineers maintaining the home base. What I'm saying is, if I run into trouble (which happens) I should be able to Hunker to survive for 45-60 seconds where I immediately send an army to neutralize the threat. I have a friend who plays somewhat similarly to me, and in hunker, his ACU was destroyed within 15 seconds by 10 or so T3 Gunships.

I'm thinking that's working as intended, or hunker could be buffed slightly. It's just that I don't want to send my ACU with a moderate defense/attack force, and still lose it. Lastly, will AI be too strong? AI already uses lots of resources to wreck, and now that they have infinite, depending on the difficulty, nukes may fly within fifteen minutes.

Thanks for the quick replies! ^_^

+1 vote     reply to comment
leosake
leosake Mar 30 2013, 11:04pm replied:

That kind of balancing will be left for later... ;)

+1 vote     reply to comment
drillz007
drillz007 Mar 27 2013, 3:45pm says:

all this talk of 1 team being super uber power this is my catch (this is getting old)

uef= best units and round about with a unit for every situation "with weak assualt bots" and exp only to assist the basic units in terring down bases=pure force

cybran=tearafing navy abilitys with strong air forcae and nimbble and crafty ground units with ok experamentals to troll armys and so much stealth and speed no one knows what hit them=the fox

aeon=weak ground units no navy with a head over heals air force in the start of match at the end top of the line experamentals and over powered assualt bots anti air sheilding and teleportation(should be looked at) with tons of rainbows for a dazzling light show for any one who dares double cross them=the tree huggers/tech advancments

uef dont need an anti air exp
cybran dont need more navel units and
aeon dont need more power or exp

this is my out look any questions???

oh and with customizable acu be back along with support comanders?

+2 votes     reply to comment
leosake
leosake Mar 28 2013, 7:22am replied:

I would agree for Supreme Commander 1...In Forged Alliance it changed alot... With the Cybrans having the Megalith 2 which had all the other land experimentals 1 vs 1 and the ability to produce units as well as the buff to the Soul Ripper, the Cybran experimentals became a force to reckon with...

You've got the Aeon pretty much true I would say.... But we're going to introduce some really nice T3 units so that they are going to become stronger in that phase too...

+1 vote     reply to comment
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