Transport Truck infantry crushing seems overpowered. Thread - Red Alert 3 Paradox mod for C&C: Red Alert 3

In their current state as a high speed, decent durability, quick-turning vehicle, the Transport Truck seems overpowered for early-game crushing tactics.

Every other Harvester can crush, but on the Transport Truck it seems imbalanced because of how much faster they are: so, in my opinion, their ability to crush Infantry should be removed.

As a part of early game rush tactics, they would still be very helpful with Minutemen garrisoned in them. If a player still wants the early-game crushing, he could build a Construction Truck or go all-in and bring the MCV to the fight: though this would delay upgrades.

(To my knowledge, Construction Trucks move quickly and crush Infantry. Please correct me if I am wrong.)

As far as base security goes, one could still garrison a Minuteman inside each Transport Truck to keep them safe.

I think ultimately the Transport Truck will simply have it's speed reduced to that of the other collectors. Being able to garrison infantry is good enough.

That would hurt its early game rush uses- and any other combat use- while not much affecting its self-defense.

It might mean that people start actually using the Jackson though, but the thing is rather late in the tech tree for a simple transport- especially when its usually more practical to build some Combat Units on the front lines than cart Infantry from your base.

Players will probably have to use forward base tactics more often with the lack of early transport.

Edited by: Galgus

I'm ok with this.

I too think that removing its speed would hurt it too much - making it not crush infantry seems better.

I think not having it be able to crush things is mostly good enough, seeing as infantry garrisoned inside it can fulfill the defense crushing does for the other collectors. As for the Jackson, reduce the amount of infantry garrisonable from four to, say...three, maybe even two. Transport Trucks should be viable for defending themselves and so forth, but the high speed and armor of the vehicle combined with the sheer attack power of the infantry do make it too close to an early rush combat unit.

And, as has been said multiple times elsewhere, the Confederates are meant to be weak in the early game - In exchange for getting better over time and numerous stealthy and tricky tactics, they should take longer to actually rush opponents. Sure, you can still focus on doing so, but it'd be like playing as the Allies without building air forces or the Chinese without turrets - you should have a moderately harder time.

Edit: And might have time for a Paradox game later, since schedule is mostly free tonight.

Edited by: ProudAmerikan

Wait, you want to nerf the Jackson?

It is rarely, rarely used over the Transport Truck as of now for a variety of reasons, including being much further down the tier tree, generally helping less in a fight, and being slower.

It reads like you meant to propose changing the Transport Truck's occupancy, which I would be fine with. Another possible option for nerfing the Transport Truck is raising its cost- but either way either a speed reduction or crush removal needs to happen.

Looking at how the Confederate Infantry are designed, I don't really agree that they are meant to be all-round weak early game. Early on they are mostly limited to Infantry and powerful Support Vehicles, but they have quite a few mechanics that make them great rushers. Their biggest early-game weakness is their lack of amphibious vehicles or early aircraft, which means they have to invest more heavily than other factions do to control the seas; and are easily zoned out of expanding there.

That said, I don't think nerfing the Transport Truck would ruin their rush capability- but it would nerf it into being more balanced.

(As a side note, I currently bring the MCV along in rushes to help against Infantry. Currently, this has no downside since upgrades are not in: but once they are it will be an interesting high-risk high-reward tactic.)

Edit: I also have a free schedule for Paradox tonight.

Edited by: Galgus

Oh, sorry. Yeah, I meant don't nerf the viability of the Jackson, because there's little enough reason to use it currently - high place in the building system, no weaponry, and the Transport Truck and the Bluejay to compete against.

I actually suggest raising the armor on the Jackson even more, perhaps some resistance to degarrisoning, whatever to make up for its nonexistent weapons, and yeah - reducing the Transport Truck's capacity to make it less as an earlier available transport whose occupants can fire out, but more of a balanced potential harraser or just early utility combat vehicle.

Confederate Infantry are DEFINATELY not meant to be weak, I know that - infantry and stealth are what's saving your ass in the early game, after all. But the amount of vehicles that can crush them in turn, as well as suppression and so forth makes them more glass cannonish compared to the infantry of other factions. I don't see anything wrong with that, mind you.

As for their biggest early-game weakness, I think it's supposed to be something besides their costing more investment to control the seas. As seen in both the Mount Rushmore missions and quite a few skirmish maps, there are places where naval warfare isn't that important. As the Confederates can expand rapidly, have a tier system that really doesn't seem all that restrictive compared to others, and great and/or multirole infantry, I think the best thing to do, odd as it may seem, would be to raise prices and/or times on the units themselves. Having them be overpriced or take production overtime for what they can output (before upgrades, obviously) would be a great incentive to expand quickly (more money/buildings), force Confederate players to decide between rushing units or building up ambushes or etc, and also, with less units overall on the battlefield, give that feeling of being outnumbered and outgunned by their opponents while still putting up a fight.

If the Jackson APC was immune to slowing and immobilization effects, it would help it a lot against some things that hard counter it. I don't think that any non-fireport transport is affected by de-garrisoning anyway.

My view of the Confederate early game is that its basically all about Minutemen, which aren't cost effective on their own, and the support options needed to make them cost-effective.

Minutemen armies can be powerful, but even in large numbers its not much of a critical mass due to how frail Infantry can be: so it forces players to use support units to make them cost-effective.

There are quite a few good options for support units, and each of them offers their own specialized utility- the Jammer Truck can keep enemies from running away, the Minelayer to deny ground and prevent crushing/ jump tactics, and the Ambulance, which excels in standard bullet to bullet fights but doesn't help against less conventional things.

The decision to rush or the decision to hide/defend don't currently seem to be equals, but ideally both could work.

If you rush, you can take advantage of early, albiet less cost-effective tech and great support options to force your enemy to fight, slowing the build of critical mass. By putting your enemy on the defensive, you are free to expand and build your own critical mass.

If you hide, you probably die horribly since you just let your opponent build critical mass and global upgrades are not in. Stealth is meaningless if you have nothing to back it up, because at the end of the day your opponent can force you to face them head-to-head.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by raising prices and/or build time- are you saying make everything before global upgrades non-cost-effective and/or have long production times?

Once Global Upgrades are in, I feel that looking into the rush/ defend strategies of the Confederates will make more sense: its a key aspect of them that is absent as of now, leaving some intended strategies non-viable.

Edited by: Galgus

It IS a good bonus and would fit in the game well,because the confeds are insanely underpowered themselves.

The Confederates are limited to Infantry and support vehicles early game, but it can be stronger than you may think. I mainly play Confederates in any Paradox match, and I typically rush with them.

The Transport Truck's fire-port ability brings enough to a fight without crushing- the thing can be a tad absurdly effective with it. However, the debate has shifted from if it needs nerfed to how to nerf it.

I still think it should get a speed reduction to the other miner speeds. That would make it fine imo.

I agree with that.

Isn't the transport truck faster than other standard ones?

R3ven wrote: I still think it should get a speed reduction to the other miner speeds. That would make it fine imo.