Lost Dragons is a multiplayer total modification aiming to bring out a new thrilling gamemode for Arma3 . Our concept is futuristic objective based team warfare with randomly generated map elements to ensure every game is a unique experience with completely new set of units, weapons, structures and terrain.
WK-AX3 WIP Gun Pose #1
(view original)
Post a comment
Description
For fun I upscaled the rifle I've made into the size fitting for the walker! This is for you .Eol.
XD this is freaking terrifying!!!
Not far from how it is supposed to be! ;D
Doesn't seem to be a very realistic nor viable design tho. Such gun would have a ridiculous recoil, it would be smarter to strongly set it into the arm and make it more like a howitzer (with the cannon folding back when firing).
In fact I'm not too sure about the use of hands and fingers on a mech. It seems a bit over-complicated, fragile (and overall less powerful in terms of possible firepower) compared to built-in weapons. And I'm not sure the advantage of being able to grab something is worth it. What are your points ?
(Plus it would require to link the ammo feeder to the gun, so in one way it would be "attached" and couldn't be manipulated freely)
Hi! I am here to argue with you! :)
First, I think rocket ammunition wouldn't have big recoil on the rifle and the gun wouldn't require a heavy barrel. Remember the Gyrojet rifle? En.wikipedia.org
Second, Hands surely look ludicrous from a contemporary stand of view, but fine tuned mecha hands can come handy on alien planets. Such Mechs can be used to handle heavy cargo. They can operate heavy equipments in hazardous environment, etc. There are tons of possibilites for robots and mechs with hands.
Well, to tell you the truth, I am glad it has fingers, we all know the Dreadnought from Warhammer 40k. They look great, but it is nice to have something different from time to time.
Ammo feeder issue: While the actual mecha-gun could change over time, I think it would look freaking awesome to see mechs change magazines. A perfectly trained soldier is able to reload in split seconds. Now imagine what could a mechanical system achieve without hesitation, without unnecessary motion.
The gun is not an actual design, just scaled it up for fun and it just happened to become huge. The real weapon systems they will use are of more realistic caliber. (the rocket is somewhere along 60cm wide and 170cm long sooo a bit too big for a cannon round) There are yes limits how large hand held weapons can be.
You do raise a sound point though and our main reasoning with fingers is:
- Yes the manipulation of stuff like clearing/creating obstacles
-Climbing and similar movement assisting
-Possibility to use easily changeable weapon systems (guns)
-Independent reloading of said weapons (no need for reload crews/vehicles/facilities)
-Arms overall help with maintaining balance and fingers to some extent also. -> Makes the Walker more nible
-Held weapons free internal space -> possibly smaller frame and/or more armor.
-Possibility to alter loadout very fast. -> one versatile frame VS many dedicated builds
What most mech/mecha/robot games nicely forget is that built in weapons take a lot of space inside the frame they're put in and their ammo stores and ammo feeders also need huge amount of space. So mounting a weapon is not as simple as the usual mech game lets you believe. The WK-209 is a great example of this as I had to do some redesigning on the frame when I created the interior parts for it. The ammo feeds would not have fit in without that and neither would have the actual ammunition, at least not without losing most of the armor.
So with held weapons the Walker can perhaps be smaller and pack the same/similar firepower than its mounted weapon counterpart. And even if it has slightly less firepower it may be able to sustain combat efficiency more independently without service (reloading/switching to appropriate weapon system/replacing broken/empty weapon). Or a team of them can to some extent help each other with field repairs.
Being smaller and more dexterous can mean their survivability in urban environments for example can be much better. Or if they're not much smaller the external weapon may mean there's more protection on the frame itself.
Of course most of this is theoretical as irl such hands probably would be too delicate, but we have the opportunity to play the scifi card here too and say the advanced materials and artificial muscles make them far more resilient than what we could produce today (or ever) But we do think the listed reasons are valid.
Also in the improbable situation of close combat between Walkers the one with hands may have great advantage. Grabbing hold of your opponent to better maneuver around him or to throw him etc. Or in the case of last stand throwing stuff at your opponent.
Main reason though being because all kinds of fighting robots are cool and we love them! :D All above just hopefully makes them believable enough.
(Do you mean the current blue ammofeeder? As that is for wrist mounted secondary weapon)
I'm sorry I can't reply to you right now, we are not in the same time zone im afraid, and i wanted to do a few sketches, so it might take me a little time.
But I still have points to developp ^^
Ha wrote so long Grimpast got there before me xDDD Im glad were stirring up such an interesting conversation!
Oups. Sorry :)
One day walker robots or mechs will roam over Mars, or at least they will stay at the close proximity of the bases. I belive (hope in) that. For travelling and transportation, wheels and wings are the most practical options, but for work and maintenance, at 0.376 g walker robots with hands must be the best choice. :)
Could be :D
Question though for both of you (and anyone interested) How big caliber gun would be still believable for a mech of this size?
200mm shell looks pretty much like an ordinary bullet compared to this thing right now. It is possible that the frame is a bit upscaled at the moment, or it is possible that this Walker variant is one of the larger ones. Still a bit undecided. But im interested to hear what you think.
200 mm? Boy, that's an artillery mech then. But artillery usually stands behind the attacking forces. The 200mm shell contains a devastating force, do you want to experience that in relative CQB?
I think if you specify the role of this mech, then you can ascertain the appropriate loadout.
Bipedal, with hands? Rises above the infantry?
I think this is a great supporting weapon. It can deliver direct supressive fire on the enemy, has a better visibility from above, so it can pinpoint and destroy enemy cover with ease. Simoultenously it can be a forward observer in order to call artillery fire support. However I can imagine this bipedal machine as an equivalent of a close air support on legs. So maybe a firepower of a AC-130?
That means a 20mm or 40mm autocannon. To answer your question.
I still don't really know how big is this mech. I think two stories high would be enough. It could still use buildings and trees as cover. Also it could put troopers on the roof. Carry ammunition and stand as cover for everyone. Jump over whole buildings to lead an assault.
200 mm shells are just too heavy to carry, and too complex to reload while running back and forth. In my opinion. Thank you for ivolving us. :)
Agree. 200mm is ******* huge and is not even used that much. Apart for rockets. A 30mm high explosive or incendiary gatling gun would be much more viable alongside a standard mbt gun
On the ammunition side, it is perfect. Maybe add 30mm anti-materiel ammo to the list. Oh my God.
Rotary autocannon has a very distinctive look and in the gaming industry it's synonymous with devastation. Probably the best idea for a game. However I think they're a bit overused. Here are some cool auto gun mechanism ideas, thanks to Gareth Fowler.
Imgur.com
I had the A10 gun in mind. It can easily take down might armor and damage tanks. But an autocannon like a bushmaster (LAV25) would do the job too
I concur. So I had revolver cannon in my mind, because it's weight is lower. More ideal for a mecha hand-held weapon. Contemporary revolver cannons can reach 1300 -1700 rpm. True, the rate of fire is 1/3rd of a CWIS, but still extreme fast for a 30 mm cannon. Basically that is a naval defense weapon system on legs (or ground-attack aircraft for that matter). Imagine what could it do with flak rounds on incoming missiles or enemy units.
Maybe a smaller caliber close defense machine gun wouldn't hurt though.
Tss tsss, i still have points to developp against hand held weapons, but im busy at work so you'll have to wait ^^
I look forward to it, now my lunch has ended, I have to go too. Later skater! :)
Excellent points you guys have made! Im at work too so I'd like to just quickly point out that we are not limited to todays technology with the weapons. Gauss/Railgun type weapons are to some extent in use and we also have laser weapons available.
Also the typical mech game engagement range has been in few hundred meters and at longest in around 1-2km, but we think this is far from realistic as even modern day tanks with 120mm cannon have effective range of 4km and that is where we intend to put our weapons too. So bear that in mind too!
Haha, but you came up with the question about calibers. Oh my, lasers can come?
My two cents on the topic: Is this a counterpart of the WK-209? If so, arm this up to the teeth. :)
But if not so really, then I guess the lore and the desired gameplay mechanics defines the purpose.
If you want to use this mecha in CQC engagements, within 1-2 kilometers, the guns have to sound great, the effects have to look great. I mean, really expressive from the foe's perspective. At this point everything can come. Heck, give it a Coil gun, or Rail gun, just make it count. Make it fearsome, because it will have an intimate contact with the players on the battleground. We are not talking about a tank, which is camping on the next hill. This is a close support machine which comes and you goes.
But apart from gameplay experience, if I have to vote on something, I'd still vote on the autocannon projectiles.
-Why would you need extreme muzzle velocity in a CQC? Railguns, Coilguns are great, but any other payload-carrying shell can do the trick in that regard.
-Lasers: I don't really know where are they stand in your universe. Sure. Lasers are great! I am just writing my opinion on projectile based weapons.
But here is the beauty of it: you can have several other kind of mecha-weapons for different scenarios. One railgun for long-range engagement, one autocannon for infantry support...
We are talking under Lost Dragons, levitating capital ships, so you can really go nuts. You could come up with a brand new kind of weapon system, like Gorgas machine gun, or Centrifugal gun. Both were real prototypes in their time.
One more thing: I think two thumbs on one hand would be a bit more ideal for a mech, but this is really unimportant.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, of course this beauty will look great!
Uuuh... Lasers ? ****, I hope we have the same kind of lasers in mind or i'll be disappointed XD
I think we have to distinguish the diferent types of mech units here. The basic advantages you could find to mechs over mbt are the agility, and the ability to move and especially look around. That means mostly cqb applications. Cause at long range a tank will always be better.
Of course an artillery mech could exist but I'm not sure it would be more effective than a self propelled howitzer.
Tl;dr I think you should focus on cqb weapons for mechs ( as grimpast said tho)
Do you want to create a Discord to discuss about that? This pic thread is going messy ^^
Not if I always agree with you. Like now on the advantages of tanks and CQB applications of the mechs. :) But sure a Discord sounds nice, so I agree on that too! :D Although I think the comments over there would line up (down)similarly to this comment thread.
Artillery mech: While I can imagine a monstrous machine, for me it would be more interesting to have a simple howitzer or a mortar with legs. Not too big, just four legs instead of wheels.It could follow the team like a good DARPA doggie.
Eeeeh, you better have tracks than four legs, honestly.
Discord will be way more organised. I created a server: Discord.gg
But why are you soo technologically realistic?! :D
Because this is what good sci-fi is to me : explain everything you can with actual means and technology. Inspire yourself from prototypes. Then, add the fiction part to explain little things you really can't create out of existing stuff.
This is a good point, and I can totally relate to that.
The only thing is, I like to find new aspects (for me new, that is) which makes me marvel at the newly discovered ideas.
I have read recollections of veteran mortar teams. They all wrote about the long walks they had to take with the quite heavy mortar parts on their backs. They suffered under the weights, in the mountains of Afghanistan or Iraq. I just played with the idea of a self-propelled, walking mortar which size does not grows exponentially. I have seen mobile walking tables, and walking DARPA robots, I think it is not so far-fetched to imagine practical usage of a bipedal or a quadruped robot. I must admit, from current stand of view, a tracked vehicle is much better. But we are currently at the beginning of the drone-era. I am exited to see visions from a future which maybe we won't ever see. So that is my reason behind a simple little mortar with leggings. I have digressed. Sorry!
EDIT: I think I'll stay here until Goat's arrival. Then I'll join to the Discord.
Grimpast Could be better idea to continue on D like Eol said. Check your PM!