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42 comments by Jerion on Jun 24th, 2015

Hello all!

Production on Revision 1.0 is finished. Some of you are wondering why we aren’t shipping yet. We’re addressing that today.

A while back we started incorporating tech into Revision that was a step beyond what anyone had ever done with this game. We implemented engine-level bug fixes and tweaks for the game’s rendering system, such as allowing decals (e.g. bullet holes) to appear in mirrors, ensuring footstep sounds occurred correctly, and increasing the limits for BSP geometry to ensure that our environments could be more detailed and more stable. We started using portions of what has been named the Revision Framework (so named because we led to its creation, not because it is exclusive to the inner workings of our project), a piece of tech that makes it relatively easy to expand on the game’s content and systems. We are quietly working on RF, intending for it to be released to the DX modding community.

Concerning the game's content, we have tied in continuity threads to the official entries in the franchise in the form of emails, logos, and other references. We also discovered some potential copyright problems in both our in-game and promotional graphics; we’ve been very busy reworking things to make sure those don’t become troublesome later on.

All of this lead us to feel extremely cautious- we want to ensure that when we release, there are no potential land mines waiting for us. So we approached Square Enix with the intent of making sure that everything we had planned was going to be fine. They’ve been very helpful and supportive; the processes has gone on longer than anyone anticipated, and we're taking advantage of the time to implement little fixes and bits of polish that were otherwise slated for the 1.1 update. On the one hand, we would love to get Revision out the door ASAP. On the other, we’re committed to making sure that we can release it and maintain it in the best possible way, and with as few stumbles as possible.

Thank you for your continuing support and patience. We almost have everything in place. And the satellites are ours when we need them.

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Revision Goodie Bag

Revision Goodie Bag

Dec 24, 2014 Wallpapers 7 comments

The Revision Goodie Bag contains some screenshots, wallpapers and ringtones. Happy Holidays from Caustic Creative!

Post comment Comments  (70 - 80 of 2,424)
lettmon
lettmon Jun 27 2015, 9:00am says:

Update: mod will be shipped soon but no too soon.

+4 votes     reply to comment
MonarchX
MonarchX Jun 27 2015, 10:56am replied:

Given past Deus Ex Revision development history, the definition of "soon" is about 3-4 months. In my personal opinion, 3-4 months is not soon.

I also greatly advice AGAINST playing the original Deus Ex. It will make replaying it again when Revision comes out a rather repetitive experience. Developers ask you to play the original because they want you to occupy your time while they are still working on the mod. Don't do that... play Witcher 3, GTA V, and other awesome games instead!

+1 vote     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Jun 27 2015, 8:24pm replied:

We simply tell people to play the original if they haven't yet done so, cause we do make the game harder to some extent and people unfamiliar with the game might get a bad experience. Also it's hard to fully appreciate what we have done if one hasn't even played the original.

+2 votes   reply to comment
MonarchX
MonarchX Jun 27 2015, 8:38pm replied:

But it IS a good way to spend time, while the mod is still being developed, isn't it?

See, I think if those who haven't played the original back when it was released will try to play it today for the first time, they'll think it SUCKS big time because of how old the engine and graphics were. Then they will realize that Revision is still based on that old graphics and engine and won't be AS appreciated.

Besides, no matter how you twist it or turn it, 2nd play-through is never as fun as the first one, where everything is unknown, unexpected, new, etc.

-1 votes     reply to comment
IgorPoulpupov
IgorPoulpupov Jun 27 2015, 10:52pm replied:

DX1 would suck for a 1st timer? You really think that? Why are you still interested in DX then? Go play modern games.

I played System Shock 2 for the 1st time about one year ago, I loved it and I know I'll play it again. I'm currently playing Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon, not a bad game, but I'm far from liking it as much as SS2 and I'm pretty sure I won't ever play it a 2nd time.

Gameplay-wise, I think DX1 is still better than Blood Dragon and than most of the comparable modern games I've played (of course including DX3).

I don't care about the useless gadgets new engines have. I half don't care about graphics. I care about the scenario, ambiance and more than everything else the final gameplay. Modern gameplays have tons of boring sh*t inside, even if they were as good as DX1 concerning the scenario and atmosphere, I would probably still prefer DX1.

+2 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Jun 27 2015, 8:52pm replied:

Well if you are already familiar with the game I'd suggest that you do something else while you wait, like play another game, study or have some Swedish meatballs.

For people that are picky about graphics and can't enjoy a good story this mod (and game) isn't for them. This for people that have played the original, know a lot of the tricks and are slightly bored and want some refreshment.

+5 votes   reply to comment
Guest
Guest Jun 27 2015, 3:05pm replied:

I'm tired of seeing this suggested. IMO, if somebody can't appreciate the original game and its amazing level design, they shouldn't bother playing Revision. Revision is not a replacement for the game, it's something for those who already love the game, already know everything there is to know, and want new maps to explore. Hopefully they're up to par. I would strongly suggest to new players to just install New Vision for the nice textures and rendering and play the original game first. Mods like Shifter, Biomod and GMDX are great, but not needed.

+2 votes     reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 27 2015, 3:14pm replied:

I fully agree with you. DX is an immortal piece of art that cannot be replaced and Revision and the like just provide different perspectives to it with various enhancements.

However, while for me it's easy to play the original unmodded game without any problems, I don't necessarily expect someone who picks up the game for the first time now to be able to do the same. In those cases, Revision and the gameplay mods can serve as a gateway for those people, who hopefully feel interested enough the check out the vanilla original game afterwards. And if they prefer the game with those mods, it's okay too.

But alas, these things are very subjective and most importantly, I'm glad Deus Ex gets the praise and interest it deserves. :]

+1 vote     reply to comment
SubTonic
SubTonic Jun 27 2015, 3:22pm replied:

It's just disturbing to me to see so many people telling newcomers to ignore the original game and play this. Not only is that insulting to DX, it's insulting to those newcomers to assume they'll immediately dismiss the game because of its substandard graphics. Perhaps some would, but if people really have an interest in a huge, choice-driven RPG, they won't care. New Vision helps a lot to make the game look better just with the environment textures, and neither that or Revision update the character models. It really comes down to a difference in mechanics and level design, but mostly level design. It's like buying Skyrim and only playing user-created quests and dungeons. I don't get it.

+4 votes     reply to comment
dev221117
dev221117 Jun 27 2015, 9:46pm replied:

I completely agree. Judith had rightfully pointed out how the Revision team claiming that their levels are an improvement over the original smacks of overconfidence and/or a lack of clear direction. Just because the levels look technically competent doesn't mean that they are going to be good or better for everyone.

+1 vote     reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 27 2015, 3:29pm replied:

Well, in the case of Skyrim a lot of people tend to get it especially because of the mods.

But in any case, Deus Ex has always been graphically outdated (which all the reviews in 2000 noted), but to someone playing the game for the first time in 2015 that's just a irrelevant piece of trivia. Quite honestly, even just having New Vision installed improves the graphics a lot.

Hell, there are some parts in Revision featuring broken roads (whoops, spoilers) that look really uh, gorgeous to me due to the high-res NV textures. Maybe that's just me. ;]

+1 vote     reply to comment
lettmon
lettmon Jun 27 2015, 1:39pm replied:

Last time I replayed the PS2 version on PCSX2 about 6 months ago so I'm good for a new playthrough.

+1 vote     reply to comment
dev221117
dev221117 Jun 27 2015, 1:08am says:

Why are copyright issues so important for this mod? Generally mods and non commercial projects don't have to worry about copyright as long as they are small enough. Are the lawyers being consulted because this mod is likely to have a lot of fame, and thus be a good target for third parties to sue? Or something else?

+1 vote     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Jun 27 2015, 8:27pm replied:

We were small at the start and as you said we didn't really care about copyright and that stuff, but as you can see we've grown and are not quite so small anymore and it *might* become an issue. And yes it's also due to the engine improvements, and if we scrap the engine improvements Revision might crash.

+1 vote   reply to comment
AciD_MisT
AciD_MisT Jun 27 2015, 3:21am replied:

Maybe it is because they are also changing the engine? I assume a mod can use the source but cant change it without the ok of the licence holder (Im just guessing)

+2 votes     reply to comment
dev221117
dev221117 Jun 27 2015, 8:02am replied:

Their code isn't really changing the engine, from what I understand. It's merely making the maps use different systems instead of the ones provided in the engine to provide better effects and lesser bugs. They don't have access to the source code, and so can't really change the engine anyway. In any case, the legality behind it didn't stop Corbeau from making the NewDark engine patch, which is used by many Thief fans without a problem from Square Enix or Eidos. Jerion's reply to my earlier comment implied that they aren't asking for permission to use Square Enix's material, they're asking for legal advice about what they've created so far from them.

+2 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Jun 27 2015, 10:13pm replied:

We can always use IDA Pro, however such things take time, if we just had the source we could do changes faster, now it's like we reverse the part we need and change it instead of having the source and perhaps rewriting a larger chunk of code. For instance if we want to change one define we need to do a hell of a lot of hooking and reversing to get that in, instead of just having the source and changing the value and hit recompile.

+1 vote   reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 27 2015, 2:33am replied:

That's a steaming hot question.

+2 votes     reply to comment
lechaterrant
lechaterrant Jun 27 2015, 1:17pm replied:

What does Steam has got anything to do with this mod? Or how would releasing through Steam require solving unknown copyright issues?

+1 vote     reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 27 2015, 2:10pm replied:

In the latter case, I think that only mods/games that don't have ANY copyright issues are allowed to be distributed through Steam. Mods like DXN or Movie Battles II for Jedi Academy couldn't be included on Steam for that reason.

Of course, time will tell what DXREV's deal with Square Enix is all abouut.

+1 vote     reply to comment
dev221117
dev221117 Jun 27 2015, 2:45pm replied:

Umm... there are games and mods on Steam with copyright issues. An infamous recent example is Air Control, which copied a lot of textures, models and music from multiple sources. Afterfall: Insanity was banned by the Polish government because they didn't pay their workers and they didn't pay for using Unreal Engine 3, aside from not repaying Amnesty International, but it took 2 years for Steam to remove the game. So I think it's some other reason, like maybe the mod being famous and then becoming a good target for being sued.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Jerion Creator
Jerion Jun 28 2015, 7:25am replied:

This last line is a terrific reason to make sure there is no copyright infringement in any project.

+2 votes   reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 28 2015, 12:32pm replied:

True. Of course, I could argue and stand to the end of the Earth that my usage of references like this should be allowed under fair use, but I'm sure in a real court battle I would lose due to something like "Jerry Seinfeld is furious that you have something related to him featured in a game mod about ham sandwiches!" Youtube.com

+1 vote     reply to comment
dev221117
dev221117 Jun 28 2015, 12:50pm replied:

As far as I know, more often that not winning legal battles over intellectual property depends on how much money you can spend on lawyers, or having access to good legal counsel. The laws are pretty sketchy, and interpretations of those can often be pretty surprisingly broad. These can work in both ways, either in the accusing party or in the defending party's behaviour.

In short, it's complicated.

+2 votes     reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 28 2015, 1:10pm replied:

Yeah, I really hope I never have to get into such situation, but if I do, well, I hope you people have DXN backed up in your hard drives. That'll give me comfort in prison. ;]

+1 vote     reply to comment
dev221117
dev221117 Jun 28 2015, 1:35pm replied:

Backup or not, I'll always keep Nihilum. It's provided quite a bit of fun, inspite of several issues.;)

+2 votes     reply to comment
FastGamerr
FastGamerr Jun 27 2015, 2:56pm replied:

In that case, it's understandable that the DXREV team wants to be safe than sorry, whether there's a real copyright infringement or not.

+2 votes     reply to comment
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