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52 comments by Jerion on Jun 24th, 2015

Hello all!

Production on Revision 1.0 is finished. Some of you are wondering why we aren’t shipping yet. We’re addressing that today.

A while back we started incorporating tech into Revision that was a step beyond what anyone had ever done with this game. We implemented engine-level bug fixes and tweaks for the game’s rendering system, such as allowing decals (e.g. bullet holes) to appear in mirrors, ensuring footstep sounds occurred correctly, and increasing the limits for BSP geometry to ensure that our environments could be more detailed and more stable. We started using portions of what has been named the Revision Framework (so named because we led to its creation, not because it is exclusive to the inner workings of our project), a piece of tech that makes it relatively easy to expand on the game’s content and systems. We are quietly working on RF, intending for it to be released to the DX modding community.

Concerning the game's content, we have tied in continuity threads to the official entries in the franchise in the form of emails, logos, and other references. We also discovered some potential copyright problems in both our in-game and promotional graphics; we’ve been very busy reworking things to make sure those don’t become troublesome later on.

All of this lead us to feel extremely cautious- we want to ensure that when we release, there are no potential land mines waiting for us. So we approached Square Enix with the intent of making sure that everything we had planned was going to be fine. They’ve been very helpful and supportive; the processes has gone on longer than anyone anticipated, and we're taking advantage of the time to implement little fixes and bits of polish that were otherwise slated for the 1.1 update. On the one hand, we would love to get Revision out the door ASAP. On the other, we’re committed to making sure that we can release it and maintain it in the best possible way, and with as few stumbles as possible.

Thank you for your continuing support and patience. We almost have everything in place. And the satellites are ours when we need them.


[July 9 Update]

A few of you have been expressing concerns that Revision is related to Mankind Divided or will be a paid-for release. Neither of these things is the case- we have no involvement in the promotion of Mankind Divided, and have never considered making Revision a commercial product. We are not providing precise release dates for a pretty straightforward reason: We're holding some confidential talks with Square Enix to make sure everything is okay, and to make something cool happen, something that we aren't talking about yet, because it's not finalized yet. We've been having a series of back-and-forths to make sure that everybody on our team is happy. There are no real problems, just technicalities that have needed to be ironed out. At this point (July 9), we're expecting these things to be wrapped up shortly.

Everything is pretty much OK, and we're in a position where we have to talk to some people to make some things happen, and the timeline for making those things happen should be pretty fast, but is partially out of our control. All we ask of you is to please be patient.

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Revision Goodie Bag

Revision Goodie Bag

Dec 24, 2014 Wallpapers 8 comments

The Revision Goodie Bag contains some screenshots, wallpapers and ringtones. Happy Holidays from Caustic Creative!

Post comment Comments  (200 - 210 of 2,947)
J4MESOX4D
J4MESOX4D Aug 23 2015 says:

If this Square Enix nonsense drags on; I don't think I'll even bother buying Mankind Divided and support SE anymore. This should have been resolved weeks ago or even last year before the mod was completed. Now it's finished and there is a barrier to entry; it just leaves me with a bad feeling that SE could throw a spanner in the works. They should have just released the mod under the table and SE wouldn't have blinked an eye.

+11 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 23 2015 replied:

Well we grossly underestimated the time these talks would take also we felt that we should have a completed product before we started talking with them (we didn't want to be fine there and then keep them waiting for us to be ready to release). If we would have known everything would drag on we would A) not announce the mod those couple of times before and B) started talking with them a lot sooner.

So yeah, it's our fault. Then again this is the first mod we are doing, the first time having to work against a big coorporation and we are a quite small team with single tasks falling upon a couple of persons. If they step away due to real life events things drag on, and that's hard to plan for.

+12 votes   reply to comment
jackliu239
jackliu239 Aug 24 2015 replied:

Well, even though we still have no timeline on the release, but I and many other feel a lot better with the past few day's communication from you and other developers.

And I know you said you are almost at the end, but just in case if you do need help please let me know.

I am a branch manager at an international commodity trade company, I do have experience communicating with multiple parties on a daily bases negotiating contract, close cases etc... If you need help dealing with SE, I can be of use.

+1 vote     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 24 2015 replied:

Well our dealings with them are more or less done at this stage. :) Thanks for the offer though!

Good to know that someone appreciates my comments, seems like the more I say the more **** we get thrown at us.

+1 vote   reply to comment
jackliu239
jackliu239 Aug 24 2015 replied:

Ok, no problem, I think overall the active communication is much better than no communication.

And again, my offer stands if you ever decide to take up on it.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Regilover
Regilover Aug 23 2015 replied:

"Working against a big corporation" So are they actively making things difficult for you? Or are they just stalling you out since the ball is in their court?

Question: At this point, would there be any legal ramifications if you just said forget whatever things you had planned with SE and just released the mod by itself?

+1 vote     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 23 2015 replied:

No, what I'm saying is that when working against a company like this you can't just send some casual email about how to do things, there are a lot of business rules and formalities to follow to do things properly.

+2 votes   reply to comment
UnderSiege
UnderSiege Aug 23 2015 replied:

This is what I'm saying. I am not making a "conspiracy", just pointing out the fact that SE is sending BS emails to stall and/or starve this mod. As I said, if sending some bs emails even gives them a chance of protecting 1% of their hype for MD (which is a HUGE project, especially for consoles), then they will do it. And it's likely that SE as a company (the shareholders & execs) have no issue with Revision. Corporations like SE are run by many individuals underneath the executives, so it's probably some ******* in middle management telling someone to send CC some bs emails about copyright, hoping to get a pat on the head from someone higher up. There never was a "legal team", "promotional deal", or any other ********. The good news is there are no real legal ramifications and CC can release the mod whenever they want without a problem. I suspect CC might fear SE dragging their names through the mud, but I doubt that will happen, since it's a low to mid-tier manager having those emails sent and not an executive.

+6 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 23 2015 replied:

That's not what is happening here. They are not having issues with us making a mod. We reached out to them cause some of our team members had a previous relationship with them and we thought they might be interested in a promotional arrangement. They promote us so we get more publicity and they get more sales, so win-win.

Now, making all the fine print in such an arrangement is tricky. There are a lot of things to consider, and there is a lot of back and forth before everybody is happy. Also if we had anticipated that it would take this long we should have started a lot earlier, but well we didn't.

+6 votes   reply to comment
Junmarko
Junmarko Aug 24 2015 replied:

[July 9 Update]
"- we have no involvement in the promotion of Mankind Divided, and have never considered making Revision a commercial product."

[August 23]
"-we thought they might be interested in a promotional arrangement. They promote us so we get more publicity and they get more sales, so win-win."

Lol. I have no idea what is happening anymore. My head hurts.

+5 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 24 2015 replied:

They get more sales of the original game, geez. And well I guess any hype for anything in the DX franchise is good for them.

+4 votes   reply to comment
Junmarko
Junmarko Aug 24 2015 replied:

Well...seeing as you've given away some of what you guys are doing with SE, would we be asking too much for a full disclosure of what the 'cool something' is? Not trying to be rude by the way - it would just be good to finally know what the deal is. As it's looking like there's going to be more delays from the sound of things...

0 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 24 2015 replied:

I'm sorry, we can't. Now, I really hope one guy gets back to us within these next few days. He was sent an email late last week to contact us, so now that the weekend is gone we are looking forward to his email. Once that has happened I think we can well the world what's going on.

The reason why we are secretive is not cause we are evil, it's cause we don't want yet another announcement with something that then turns out to be untrue. And well the estimates I so often give are for different things, but since I can't tell you what things it seems like every estimate I make are **** since it seems like nothing is happening.

My advice is to come back on Wednesday and check in to see if anything has happened.
Also refer to: Polygon.com

+3 votes   reply to comment
Junmarko
Junmarko Aug 24 2015 replied:

No one is saying you're 'evil' dude - you guys are just extremely flakey, which is frustrating, no offense. All these supposed 'exchange of emails' with S.E come across as either hearsay or a little exaggerated, especially when you're so coy about the actual details. Besides, if you're so worried you can't deliver on the announcement/s, make them with a FIRM caveats. You'll get more respect from people if you do that. Anyway, look forward to hearing more. Cheers.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Guest
Guest Aug 24 2015 replied:

get over it, it's a mod

-1 votes     reply to comment
Drewie
Drewie Aug 23 2015 replied:

Thanks for the clear up bjorn

+3 votes     reply to comment
J4MESOX4D
J4MESOX4D Aug 23 2015 replied:

Exactly! If Revision was released through Moddb; I bet Square Enix wouldn't even have noticed and seeing that the SDK is open and not being monetized through this venture; there is absolutely no legal basis for complaint in my view and even if SE were miffed; they wouldn't even entertain taking it to a legal level because Caustic wouldn't be liable to pay financial compensation as it's a non-profit product produced on an open public development platform - the only thing that would materialize is Square Enix being out of pocket on legal action fees and the mod would be removed on request which would make them anti-gaming essentially and not do their already weary reputation any favors. SE are too busy counting the cash on their Tomb Raider exclusives these days anyway to give a monkeys about mods for games that the wont detract from their current and future portfolio.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Silmarill_SK
Silmarill_SK Aug 23 2015 replied:

You sound like a discontented employee from Square Enix.
And by this I am NOT saying that you arent right.

+3 votes     reply to comment
UnderSiege
UnderSiege Aug 23 2015 replied:

"You sound like a discontented employee from Square Enix.
And by this I am NOT saying that you arent right."

Haha, you give me too much credit. I won't say for what company I work, but right now I am in entertainment. I believe there is quite a bit of overlap between that and the game industry, at least from a business side. I've seen this kind of stuff before and this debacle with SE looks like a carbon copy. I've even caught wind of a manager telling an unpaid intern (with the promise of pay) to send bs emails to an indie group over "construed copyright infringement over protected intellectual property", I think it was. Of course, no such charge exists. But you would be amazed at what people will freak out over if it sounds complex or fancy enough. Just imagine what the gossip is like from within a company like EA, which is notorious for all kinds of shady activity. SE doesn't have that kind of notoriety which is why I give them the benefit of the doubt and claim it's a shifty manager behind this, which is a more common phenomenon anyway.

+3 votes     reply to comment
jackliu239
jackliu239 Aug 23 2015 replied:

Agreed, I never had any feeling towards SE one way or the other in the past. But now... I don't know if I want to support their business if this is the way they treat little guys like Caustic.

+4 votes     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 23 2015 replied:

It's not their fault, it's us underestimating how long it would for everybody in the team to be happy with the arrangement.

+6 votes   reply to comment
jackliu239
jackliu239 Aug 23 2015 replied:

It's ok, don't beat yourself up on it, you had no idea how long it would take when you go in into it.

I would say just set a internal time deadline for your team, that if issues are not resolved by that date, just release the mod, and you can let SE know that as well.

If you have faith, then they will work with you to finalize the term before the date, and if not, I think you should seriously consider what some of the other guys says here are correct, that they are delaying for the sake of delaying for whatever reason that is.

+1 vote     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 23 2015 replied:

Again the problem here is not them, these things just take their time. They have a lot to do besides working with us and thus some steps of this process involving multiple people might take a few weeks. If person A have to make person B do something and if person B is out of office it's only natural things take a little while. If you then add up a lot of these steps you can easily imagine how this can become a few months. It's as simple as that.

No, we won't throw away everything we've worked for especially now when we are on the finish line.

+2 votes   reply to comment
dev22111
dev22111 Aug 23 2015 replied:

You've been on the finish line for like 5 months now. Excuse me if I feel somewhat skeptical about that statement.

+1 vote     reply to comment
bjorn98009_91 Creator
bjorn98009_91 Aug 24 2015 replied:

Well not for five months, but yeah I've been saying that for a while.

The issue is that the estimates and the things I've mentioned have been for different things, but since I can't tell you what things it seems from an external standpoint that nothing is happening.
Also additional steps have arisen on the way, I thought that "ah, just this thing before we are done" and then learned that well a lot of more steps are involved.

Now I can't promise that this email we are waiting for will indeed be the final thing, but I'm very hopeful that it will be and that it will allow us to announce what the promotional arrangement is all about.

+3 votes   reply to comment
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