The Lord of the Nords joined Oct 18, 2011

Avid supporter of a fully recovered and effective Russian Federation, professional public media shredder, aircraft enthusiast, harsh critic of today's "scientific" community or its lack thereof, and also a gaming enthusiast of sorts.

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By Sergeant Michael D. Wilmoth, US Army Reserve, and Lieutenant Colonel Peter G. Tsouras, US Army Reserve, Retired.

Day 1, 29 February 2000

Early on 29 February, a 104th GPR airborne company encountered a significant Chechen force on the road leading southeast out of Ulus-Kert. Russian paratroopers engaged the Chechen fighters for control of Hill 705.6. The Russian company, significantly stressed during the fight, gained control of the hill and pushed the Chechen force southeast into the small gorge below. The company was most likely heavily supported by artillery and helicopters, as was the usual Russian operation in this war.

The 104th GPR commander ordered 2d Airborne Battalion elements to block the saddle between hills 776 and 787, which was the next possible path over the mountains for the Chechens. The 2d Airborne Battalion headquarters was already in place on Hill 776. The 2d Airborne Battalion element was to be in place by 1400. In the early morning, 6th Company, including the third platoon, 4th Company, and two reconnaissance groups, probably from the regimental reconnaissance platoon, started on foot toward the saddle.5

6th Company, with the other elements, minus the company’s third platoon, arrived by late morning, ahead of schedule. The company commander established a linear defense in the saddle between the hills, fronted by a minefield facing west toward the gorge. The defense focused on the Chechen forces’ expected direction of escape. No access routes through the minefield were prepared nor were platoon positions sited to be mutually supportive.6 After establishing company positions, troops began their afternoon meal, leaving their positions and congregating in the open.7

The Chechen force clearly had a better grasp of the situation. The fighters had been listening to 104th GPR communications and used this advantage and good ground reconnaissance to locate 104th GPR subunits and to set ambushes. At 1230, a 6th Company reconnaissance patrol encountered approximately 20 fighters just outside company defensive positions. That the Chechens could approach that close without detection shows that the Russians had conducted no deep reconnaissance of the approaches to the saddle.

The Chechens, armed with automatic weapons, grenade launchers and mortars, reacted quickly, seizing the initiative. The small force was probably followed by a combat element, which would have been consistent with Soviet-style reconnaissance doctrine that places great value on immediately seizing the initiative in any engagement by having a strong combat element close behind the advance reconnaissance element.8 Chechen reconnaissance elements also worked their way around the Russian position in the saddle and attacked from the rear where there were no defenses.9 With Chechens in the rear and no escape routes through their own minefield, 6th Company pulled back and dug in on Hill 776. Their retreat was so precipitous that they abandoned mess kits still full of food.10

Chechen fighters, laying down constant fire on 6th Company, received reinforcements as the main body arrived. The force encircled 6th Company and sent waves of fighters into the attack.11 By the end of the first day, 6th Company had suffered 31 dead—a 33 percent killed in action (KIA) rate.12 6th Company had barely survived three basic errors: failure to establish an all-around defense; failure to aggressively conduct reconnaisance of the enemy’s expected approach route, especially given the Chechen reputation for tactical skill, reconnaisance and working around the flanks; and failure to heed warnings about the Chechen force’s approach.13

For some reason, 6th Company did not anticipate with sufficient seriousness and energy the danger it had been assigned to forestall. It seems likely that weak command at the company level was compounded by a lack of timely supervision by the adjacent battalion headquarters.

Day 2, 1 March 2000

Early in the morning on Hill 1410, a reinforcement group of two VDV SPETSNAZ platoons, one Vympel SPETSNAZ group and two airborne companies departed on foot for the saddle. The group encountered several ambushes while traversing terrain as steep as 70 degrees. At approximately 0330, one VDV SPETSNAZ platoon broke through to Hill 787 but was forced to dig in because of stiff Chechen opposition.

The 1st Company was also sent to reinforce 6th Company. While attempting to cross the Abazolgul River northeast of Ulus-Kert, the unit encountered a Chechen ambush force of up to 60 men. Despite repeated attempts to fight through the Chechen ambush, the 1st Company was forced to dig in on the river’s bank. At 0300, during a brief lull, 2d Airborne Battalion deputy commander Major Aleksandr Dostovalov, with 4th Company’s third platoon, broke through to the encircled company. While relief forces were being held back by ambushes, waves of Chechen fighters continued to assault 6th Company on Hill 776.14 When Romanov’s legs were blown off by a mortar round, the battalion commander took over.

While some reports question the lack of artillery and combat air support, others indicate that both where present throughout the four-day engagement. In his report to defense minister Igor Sergeyev, Shpak states that 2d Airborne Battalion “was supported by a self-propelled artillery battalion of the 104th Parachute Regiment and by army aviation.”15 The presence of an artillery forward team with 6th Company, which included a battery commander, indicates that artillery support was at least adequate. While Shpak’s statement and other reports make it certain that VDV artillery was employed throughout the engagement, it is unclear how effective it was at reducing Chechen numbers. Also unanswered is whether additional artillery assets were employed to support 6th Company.

Press reports also cite use of “Grads”—122-millimeter BM-21 multiple-rocket launchers that VDV units do not have.16 Accounts of other engagements in the southern mountains show that the Russians employed available artillery from a number of units in coordination with army aviation helicopters. These accounts stress that artillery continued to fire when helicopters disappeared with daylight. Only one Russian helicopter in the Chechen theater had night capability. This supports Shpak’s statement that 6th Company received no aviation support at night. Helicopter support was further limited by foggy conditions during the fighting.17

The Chechens continued heavy attacks on Hill 776 from all directions throughout the early morning. Paratrooper officers showed an unhesitating willingness to sacrifice themselves, a trait the Germans had frequently noted in the grandfathers of the men on the hill. Dostovalov, already wounded, attacked a group of Chechens trying to carry off a wounded soldier and dispatched them with a grenade. Junior soldiers were equally valiant. After Private Aleksandr Lebedev ran out of ammunition, he threw himself and his last live grenade into a group of Chechens who had wanted him to surrender.

At approximately 0500, the Chechens breached 6th Company defenses. Cumulative casualties and odds of at least 10 to one were too much for the dwindling Russian force. As Chechens overran Hill 776, fighting became hand-to-hand, and Chechens began shooting wounded Russians. The already wounded battalion commander took over the radio from the wounded Romanov and called in artillery fire on his own position, shouting into the radio, “I call artillery on myself!”18 The Chechens suffered grievously from the artillery, and at 0610, communications with the battalion commander were lost.

As the second day of fighting closed, 6th Company counted another 26 paratroopers killed and many wounded. Counting the 31 men who had fallen the day before, 6th Company had suffered a KIA rate of almost two-thirds—57 out of 90 men.19 Chechen casualties also continued to mount. Repeated human-wave attacks are costly, especially when the defenders are supported by artillery and aviation.

The Chechens had been throwing themselves at Hill 776 to keep open a path for the rest of their force. This movement was interrupted by the arrival of the relief force from Hill 1410. Major Andrey Lobanov, commanding a 45th VDV Reconnaisance Regiment SPETSNAZ group, was with this force. He noted that hundreds of pack animals had already passed by. The Russians moved into the saddle and found 6th Company’s abandoned positions and soon encountered a large Chechen group. The Russians retreated to Hill 787 from which they could cover the saddle.

The Russians intercepted the Chechen commander’s desperate orders: “Do not engage in battle. Force your way forward.”20 With the remnants of 6th Company still holding out on Hill 776 and new Russian forces on neighboring Hill 787, the Chechen escape route was dangerously constricted. The Russians sent a reconnaissance platoon into the saddle to find a better position. Instead, it found an ambush by Arab volunteers, covering an attempt by the main Chechen convoy to escape. Having suffered five wounded, the Russians committed another company, hoping to stop the Chechen escape attempt.21

Day 3, 2 March 2000

Late in the morning, the 1st Company broke through Chechen forces and reached the battle area. However, it could not relieve 6th Company, which was still under close attack. One officer and 32 men were still alive. Deputy company commander Captain Roman Sokolov had arrived in Chechnya barely 13 days before. Wounded in the hand, he organized the survivors’ final defense. He placed the six most junior soldiers in the care of Sergeant Andrey Proshev and ordered them to escape. Then, as the Chechens pressed the attack, Sokolov called artillery fire down on his position as a desperate attempt to fend off the enemy. Another 16 paratroopers on Hill 776 were killed in the continuing fighting.22

(continued here)

The Saker notes: The closer to the frontlines, the better the officers. In this case, these are VDV officers, so while this is heroic for sure, this is also “normal” in the sense of “being the norm”. And, again, all this was taking place in a completely ruined and demoralized country. Can you imagine what these guys are capable of today, when they get all the training they need, all the men they need, all the support they need and, most importantly, the complete support of the Russian society? That was just one company, 100+ men. There are now 50’000+ of them.

Avid supporter of a fully recovered and effective Russian Federation, professional public media shredder, aircraft enthusiast, harsh critic of today's "scientific" community or its lack thereof, and also a gaming enthusiast of sorts.
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Post comment Comments  (40 - 50 of 223)
OminousSpudd Creator
OminousSpudd Aug 18 2015 says:

Fun fact: According to my calculations, one could buy approximately 23,077 Su-35S multi-role aircraft for the price of the 1.5 trillion dollar F-35 program.

Maybe take a third of that number away for the actual developement costs of the Su-35... But still, that's literally insane.
This is why I love Lockheed Martin.

+4 votes   reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Aug 21 2015 replied:

Lockheed Martin stole billions of US taxpayers money. No-one seemed concerned about it decades ago. Why would they be concerned now? Americans and their Allies in JSF program are trying to convince their populace that the F-35 is not an utter failure that it actually is. For hundreds of billions it costs, it better be a damn "Enterprise". I'm all for quality over quantity, or at least the balance of two, but whoever did the cost-eficiency study for F-35 either needs his head examined or incarcerated for the greatest fraud in military history.

+4 votes     reply to comment
OminousSpudd Creator
OminousSpudd Aug 21 2015 replied:

The pilot not being able to turn his head inside the cramped cockpit was the latest in the program's abject failure. That and it having its arse kicked by an F-16 Block D. It's hardly the Enterprise.

Of course the American fanboys will keep desperately trying to justify it being "all about BVR capabilities noaw, it dusn't need to turn!1!111!" But even this is a complete hoax, Russia can match the AMRAAMs deployed by the US easily with the ramjet R-77, and the general improvements in the Active Radar fields suggest we'll see both Russia and China overtake the US within this decade. Russia is also leagues ahead in its IRST detection ranges, which will play a large part in getting the first shots off at any aircraft implementing a reasonable VLO structure. Combine this with Russia's VKO, or Aerospace Defense Forces, and any mission statement that the F-35 hopes to fulfil in today's world becomes downright hilarious.

+4 votes   reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Aug 22 2015 replied:

Absolutely! A VVS-VKO combo is unbeatable. If I was a Yank, I would put all my money in more Raptors. JFS was a good idea, but it was left at that. By the time it gets done, if it ever does, it will be extremely expensive, both per plane and development-wise and probably even outdated, compared to a T-50 or even both J-20/31. Their only hope is that many of Americas' future "humanitarian interventions" will be in countries without Sukhois and S-300/400.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 3 2015 replied:

You mean the humanitarian interventions to Nepal after the devastating earthquake that hit them? Marines even died in a crash there getting aid to the villages there.

Or the interventions to fight the Ebola outbreak in Africa?

Could try the devastation Haiti endured and our response there.

America has played the Imperialist with dictatorship like countries often. But again, many of you people (like spud has said in conversations Ive observed about Russia) don't "know" American interests nor our media. Even if you claim otherwise, many of you do not live in America.

You really need to learn to call out this crap on your profile Spud. I know you like talking politics and defending "Russian interests" but people like me can only tolerate so much bias to a point. The reason I bring this up is because you try and act "educated/fair" on these matters. Yet end up doing quite the opposite when further discussed with on these matters.

You forget, the U.S. and West also has their supporters here on moddb. Calling them names and writing them off as brainwashed media drones really doesn't help make your points. All it does is alienate people and further tensions.

Ive talked with people about politics like this in far more tense situations and learned from them, as well as had them learn from me. Even if they weren't quick to admit it afterwards. Playing the game fair and balanced, while not easy to do, has it's benefits.

I also do wonder, what has Russia or China been doing to help "fight" ISIS? Everyone knows those people are savages and need to go. They could go a lot sooner if certain other powers got involved. Why don't you?

+2 votes     reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Sep 3 2015 replied:
Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations participated in all the disasters you've mentioned and many more, so what you're saying is an utter Russophobic nonsense. Putting Russian interests is quotation marks means that you completely ignore their existence. That's quite typical for an American, completely oblivious to the fact that there is the rest of the world. The problem is that one country in that rest happens to field the largest WMD arsenal on the planet. Second problem is that you are completely oblivious to the fact that the rest of the world hates your country beyond normal. Reason? Well if you stoped killing wherever you go it would really help stop that.
And if you are genuinely interested in the amount of evil your country has done on this world, while psychoticlly shouting how others are the only evil, than PM me, because I really don't want to hijack my friends' profile.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 3 2015 replied:

I don't recall asking what your country had, and had not participated in regarding those incidents. I was simply telling what my country has done that is good with foreign aid and humanitarian aid.

I don't see us killing people in Haiti.
I don't see us killing people in Nepal.
I don't see us killing people in Africa.

But I see us helping them.

All three points I mentioned above your comment. America doing good in other countires. Yet, you ignore this, and shift straight to hatred. It's a wonder you claim to be righteous and correct, when are really as biased as they come. I'm not going to delete my comments here, I want to show how "understanding" people like you are.

Sir, spare the drama.

I'm a well informed American, aware of our mistakes and our successes.
Our victories, and our defeats. I'm aware, of our good and wrong.

Don't you DARE, try telling me, what you THINK you know, about MY country.
When you don't even live here, let alone know my people.

You've already hijacked with that completely inflammatory response and downvote.
I suggest you back off and let me and Spud talk, in peace.

+2 votes     reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Sep 3 2015 replied:

You replied to my comment, so you're the one who started the hijacking. When did I claim to be righteous? Oh and about daring, I sure as hell dare. What your country has done to mine and dozens of others gives me all the right.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 3 2015 replied:

I replied to your comment in regard to what you've said about us and humanitarian aid. Then shifted it over to questioning spud on that and other things I would like to discuss with him.

Reason I say righteous is because Ive dealt with that mentality a lot when talking to people both here on moddb and even in my own country with politics. They have such a fire in them, it turns into a zealous response.

Never said I denied the bad parts of American foreign policy. I just get tired of everyone assuming my country doesn't do good at all. Which we have done good, but evidently, the bad is talked about more than the good. It's that bias, I deal with.

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

+3 votes     reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Sep 3 2015 replied:

I never said your country didn't do any good. I'm not zealous about hatred or whatever you're tryin' to impose on me. I don't hate you or even your country. I hate it's damn government. There's a difference of about 300 million + people between those two things. "An eye for an eye makes the world blind." is easy to say, when you're the one to keep both of yours while poking out mine.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 3 2015 replied:

Alright, I'll give you credit for clearing that up.

In regards to the government.

This is something the country has been fighting with itself for a while now over. So what you're saying isn't to different from how one would feel back here about it. Electing new administrations to office never solves it though. Political leaders require the people/society to set them in the right direction. And even then, they are still prone to problems.

We've got our own crisis back here in the states.

So I wouldn't say America is picture perfect as all this stuff happens in the world. What America doesn't get in wars, it gets in natural disasters and "political correctness" running amok causing riots and chaos.

I ask, what has my country done to yours?
I'd appreciate discussion on the subject.

+3 votes     reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Sep 3 2015 replied:

Thank you. I know that American people is not one body with the government as the "brain". I know that whatever you do or whoever you elect won't change much. I'm against the whole "collective guilt" concept. As for the discussion, I'm not sure we should start it, because than we would really hijack Spudds profile. If you are willing we can go PM about that whole issue.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 3 2015 replied:

Due to how diverse the people are who live here.
There's a legitimate disconnect between the people and government.

Alright, feel free to take it to PM.

+2 votes     reply to comment
OminousSpudd Creator
OminousSpudd Sep 4 2015 replied:

Well! The stuff that goes on on your own page without your noticing, fantastic!

For a start, you're going to have to point out where I have aggressively and irrationally attacked or insulted any member on this site, at which point I'll PM them and apologise. This is in response to you implying that I have at some point "called names". I would have to ask why you're even here if this was the case...

I am not obligated to call out any crap on my profile, no matter the member, statement, or opinion expressed, as long as the said statement adheres to the site's clearly defined rules.

I do not forget that this site is majority populated by those who support the West's policies, I have spent a considerable amount of energy discussing this topic with a few of those very members. A strange deduction to make on your part.

Do not assume that I know little of your country simply because of where I live, you appear to be unaware of just how potent and corrosive American Foreign Policy and Soft Power projection has become within its own allies. Outside of national, my news media mirrors yours almost in totality.

You'll have to excuse me for not jumping up and down at the small amount of things your country actually does in good faith while in the same breath killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people both directly and indirectly world wide. As a country that regards itself "Exceptional" and has built itself its own pedestal to proclaim this from, any negative action is going to be echoed by quantifiable amounts in comparison to any positive action. Given that this very ratio is so extremely poor, I would not be so indignant.

It is your own prerogative to be offended by what I post on my own page, or that of member's, who are baiting and are open for debate.

+3 votes   reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 4 2015 replied:

I don't have to point that out, we both know you've written off people both on the aircraft lovers group, the humor satire and parody group, and on of all places, on Orange Tomatoes profile. You've even let one of your friends call him nothing but a Ukie subhuman. So you tell me, the one's who you keep company with obviously aren't that different from what you think personally.

If you're going to give off the impression, that you're trying to be a fair and balanced individual. Than you do have a obligation to have what conversations you do have exemplify that. I mean, would you let someone call your friend something cruel, and let him off? Or yet, let someone say something you knew was a lie. Yet let them say it anyway, and didn't call them out on it.

You call American F-22 Raptors being deployed to Eastern Europe, as well as armored divisions being mobilized with NATO soft policy? Not even mentioning the sanctions Russia has been dealing with since their Ukraine debacle or the fact they got kicked from the G8 in the United Nations. The Russian Federation lost a lot of respect from the international community after that stunt. You and I both know that even if you won't be first to admit it, so lets leave the cherry picking at the door shall we?

It depends on your point of view what's good, and what isn't. We can talk morality all day, but to be frank morality is very subjective these days with people. Especially since most people no longer take God into account when they make a decision. Well, unless you're a terrorist down in the Middle East.

If you want to talk indignant...
Do you remember the Moscow hostage Crisis back in October 2002?

Just to clarify, I don't hate Russia, or it's people.
However, the government has done it's own sins.

+2 votes     reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Sep 5 2015 replied:

>The Russian Federation lost a lot of respect from the international community after that stunt

I always get truly amazed how "great European master race" thinks that the world ends with Europe and United States(+/- Japan, N. Korea). Somehow Russia still got a lot of visitors on they 9th of May, the Victory parade. You forget that Middle East, Africa, South America, Asia and particularly China are also part of the world. Strangely you don't forget about these regions when you brag about U.S. humanitarian aid, but completely erase them from your memory when they go nice for Russia. Bravo.

The ISIS question. The ISIS is being mainly fought by Middle-Eastern countries and not "Peacekeepers". Especially I want to point out Syria that puts a big effort into fighting islamists. Strangely one of the things that America does here is training the opposition against Assad army, which, you know, is not fighting ISIS at all. Well, to satisfy you, Russia sent it's military groups to Syria and they have already started joint operations.

And no, I don't hate Europe or U.S.
I hate nazis
And by nazis I don't mean Hitler's bald followers running with swastikas around the street, but the nations that act like self-proclaimed Gods or World Police. And that exactly what US is doing by now. Because US did Obama say it in his speech? "What an exceptional country we are". No, you are not exceptional. "Freedom, Liberty, 'Murica" does not make you exceptional. Half-million civilian killing operation in Iraq also does not make you exceptional.

Your channels speak about "Russian aggression"(Oh, and don't tell me that I don't know what your channels show. I have been watching CNN for the rest of 2008 when it was telling about Russian invasion of Georgia, while my relatives were barrage bombed in Osetia by Georgian artillery the very night it all started), but it's you are the ones who have been putting NATO anti-ICBM systems around Russia in Southern Europe, in Kyrgizstan, completely ignoring the pact that was prohibiting any NATO expansion "in exchange" of USSR collapse. That's the Hypocrisy of your country since USSR fall.

I'm sorry If I offended you, or was too emotional. But your country itself is VERY far from good guys too, as with any superpower nowadays.
Congratulations with becoming the Soviet Union of the west.

In the end, I live in Kazakhstan, that has good ties with both Russia and US, so our country is pretty independent in it's opinion. (didn't support Crimea annexation and is partly anti-soviet, if you want a proof). And I'm not Russian. I'm Jew and I tell you what I see from the country, that freely displays all channels from Japanese to American.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 5 2015 replied:

Never erased them from memory, however they (when I say this, I'm speaking of their governments, not the people) never seem to care too much for what goes on up in the European theater unless it somehow affects them. In this case, the Crimea annexation got the European governments and American government all riled up. My fault for not clarifying then.

I'm sure you already know, but just to recap this is the same Assad who used chemical weapons on his own people, killing about 1500 civilians in rebel territories during their civil war. Over 400 of them being just kids. The United Nations and other nations investigated this and either say he did or that it's very possible. Well, except for Russia. Syria never signed or affirmed the pact nations took to remove chemical weapons (not use them either) from their arsenal so it's not surprising.

Good, I hope Russia puts it's forces to good use fighting ISIS terrorists in the region. One obvious benefit, these operations give units experience to train new troops when they get home after.

Ideals can make a country exceptional. The issue is actually living up to those ideals. Which humans naturally have issues doing. I believe in what my country is supposed to stand for, but not what it is right now.

I see your point about the NATO expansion after the USSR collapse. However, Putin saying he put his "nuclear forces on alert" upon invading Crimea really doesn't help the situation. It's not just my country responsible for that, the rest of the Western powers in NATO who went along with it also share the responsibility for that.

If it's any conciliation I wouldn't have allowed NATO to try and do what it did with Ukraine nor other powers with the expansions after USSR fell. It's just a damn shame governments out there are like this.

No, you made some legitimately good points. I'm not offended, I'm actually happy you've presented your viewpoints even if I don't agree with all of them.

For the record, I don't agree with the government in my country these days about many things they've been doing. But being in the position I am, as you can imagine, "if only I could do more to change this". This is the struggle of the citizen, having to live under this incompetence day to day. Looking for the time they can actually do something, no matter how small to change it.

+2 votes     reply to comment
OminousSpudd Creator
OminousSpudd Sep 4 2015 replied:

So let me get this straight, you come to my page, tell me that I am actively "writing off" and "name calling" other members on this site, you provide me with no examples aside from vaguely referencing two groups and a member's page and dismiss my honest demand for evidence as a "We both know" situation.

Aside from engaging in what is essentially becoming defamation, you're also completely misinterpreting my comments. I talk about US Soft Power within its allies and you go off on some tangent about NATO arming up in Eastern Europe. Then, if that isn't bad enough, you talk about the Ukraine Civil War as if I don't know a thing about it, and take the line of Russia being responsible for the entire situation.

Then Nord-Ost... What are you even talking about?!

In conclusion? You don't have the knowledge required to discuss this topic, and neither, I imagine, the age. Jog on mate, I'm not interested in the slightest.

+2 votes   reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 5 2015 replied:

So you expect me to come to you with a detailed list of every incident where this had happened? I don't know about you, but I'm not exactly up for digging into posts that can be over 200 images back on those groups. I saw what I saw, and you know what you've written. That's enough for me.

You can rest in solace with the fact I'm not accusing you of harassment or trolling. This merely has to do with debating and discussion.

Did I ever say you didn't know about that situation? Ive seen your comments on it. Way you talk, annexing part of a sovereign country in the 21st century is somehow a good thing. My country gets accused of Imperialism quite a lot, but what Russia did was just that, Imperialist.

Russia wanted that Crimean Naval base. But lets think for a moment, why does Russia even need that base to begin with? A crucial defense block? I don't believe Russia was ever at threat from NATO or the West. Or anyone else for that matter. All they've done by doing this is help the west and east slip back into a Cold War mindset. It was a completely unnecessary debacle.

I don't try justifying all the screw ups my country made even when I do try and explain what happened. I admit the screw up, and move on. Even if there were screw ups we had that initially started with good intentions. No government is perfect.

You don't remember the Moscow Hostage Crisis?

Over 130 hostages died, including nine foreigners due to the Russian government using chemical weapons on the Theater where the Chechen rebels were holding them. The Russian Government also withheld the identity of the gas which prevented doctors in Moscow from saving more hostages lives from the gas afterwards.

Why do I bring this up?

Because, I wanted to show that even the Russian Federation has it's own sins to deal with. I know others will probably be reading this, so it isn't just for you that I said it.

You've done it again just now, you've just written me off.
Instead of talking with me like a educated and fair individual.

You insult me, than walk away.

+2 votes     reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Sep 6 2015 replied:

Well, talking about Assad, I don't deny the fact that he could use chemical weapons on his people. It's middle east and Caesar knows what actually happens there. However I deny that European or any Western investigations are reliable. US once proclaimed that Iraq has WMDs and kills babies at hospitals. Neither of it proved to be true, both American and Iraqi people died "just because". And the Europe? Currently in Ukraine the only thing that OSCE does is...nothing. The are meant to watch over for two sides completing Minsk agreements. However when there is a fight they just run into the basement without giving a crap about looking at who's artillery is firing. Two Russian journalists filmed Ukrainian artillery shelling both evacuating civilians and separatist forces, both were blasted to smithereens by the artillery in the end. I don't mean that OSCE has to run into the gunfire, but they need to goddamn overlook the situation at least from somewhere.
Also, when MH17 was taken down, OSCE said that they couldn't examine the plane parts because of "separatists not letting them to". Which was later to be proven a lie by two Polish journalists, who accused OSCE of not even trying to reach the plane crash site, because when they two asked separatists to lead them to crashed plane, they gladly escorted them. Still I don't mean that Assad is Saint and didn't do it, but the sources blaming him are also rather...unreliable. However If eastern nations also took part in investigation (except Saudi Arabia), then I agree.

Oh, yeah, about that. Your Teapot Allies' media has already blamed Russia for invading Syrian civil war this night.

Have to agree there. US was following it's ideals much better during the Cold War.

I don't blame your people or even your President. I believe in theory that every major country is run by government military, not president. As USSR was practically in the hands of KGB, the same way US is in the hands of Pentagon. So they are the guys I blame. The other NATO allies that could support expansion are probably UK and France, maybe Baltic countries (as they are well known russophobes). I don't see any profit for Russia and Germany to rise tensions between each other once more. I even feel sad for Germany, it didn't want to have anything with it.

Well, I'm also glad that we started a constructive argument, Thanks. That's much more pleasant than "throwing **** in the fan".

But there are two more points that I want to bring up.
>>>>Russia wanted that Crimean Naval base. But lets think for a moment, why does Russia even need that base to begin with? A crucial defense block? I don't believe Russia was ever at threat from NATO or the West. Or anyone else for that matter. All they've done by doing this is help the west and east slip back into a Cold War mindset. It was a completely unnecessary debacle.

The gun doesn't fire without pulling the trigger, the landmine doesn't explode without something stepping on them. Considering the NATO's expansion in the east and US/France/UK aggressive policy in the Middle Eastern and African countries it's hard to believe that Russia "wasn't even at threat". The US nowadays doesn't believe in multipolarity of the world. The share the same ideology with the Socialists (Who is not with us is against us) and having a strong major powers like China or Russia does not please them and only blind won't see that.
The other reason is that it was the only Russian non-Northern naval base and no one in Russia's place would like to lose it. Besides, no one would like to lose the money that the have already paid for base's rent.

Also a lot of western media say that Russian media creates the atmosphere of hate.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 6 2015 replied:

There's conspiracy weeks before the invasion that there was convoys that removed the weapons from Iraq. Convoys that took the weapons to Syria and Lebanon. The WMD's chemical weapons Iraq was said to have. There's also theory that Saddam had them sent to Syria in the form of "aid" via aircraft transportation. I can't confirm if it's true or not, partly because our government didn't go far enough into investigated it. People were to angered about the war to care anymore and the media was too busy demonizing whoever supported the war. Even though both Democrats and Republicans originally did together.

Up for you too interpret. Could just be conspiracy, or could be fact. Nonetheless, I don't believe we can say for certain Iraq didn't have chemical weapons. Doesn't justify the invasion though, dethroning all these dictators on the middle east has caused absolute chaos in the region. Far worse evils have replaced them.

Media will be media. I can talk about them all day but can't control a thing about them. I think part of the reason they are being like this towards Russia is because he supports Assad and the west doesn't. Media will make a big deal about stuff like this.

As for me, I do believe the west is correct about Assad and the chemical weapons. Not just because of what they said however, but because of additional factors. One that I already mentioned being that they never agreed to get rid of their chemical weapons or agree to stop using them.

Here's a western article on Syria and Chemical weapons.

All I ask is to be open with it while reading. I know many people here don't trust the west but at least hear out their points on the matter.

Agreed about the ideals.

Believe me, the president and his administration are responsible for their own actions. If you knew what I knew, you'd at least somewhat agree on this. Ive lived here all my life. Much of what happens here, has to do with the administration, the military just "follows orders". Whatever the administration wants, the media backs.

Yes, I know. NATO definitely played a role in Russia's actions with Crimea. Still, I don't think NATO or the west was up for World War III with Russia, China, etc. That would be a costly war beyond imagination. Hence why I say Russia was never at threat. Not even NATO is stupid enough to start something that could lead to that. Even if they were being dicks getting right up in Russia's face with trying to get Ukraine to join them. As said, I don't support NATO's expansions since the fall of USSR.

Surely there were other ways for Russia to get a non-northern naval base?

My belief is both sides create that atmosphere of hate threw firing back at each other all the time. Both are too blame for this, and until one or both grow up I don't believe it will stop anytime soon.

+3 votes     reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Sep 7 2015 replied:

That's theories, we can believe in them or not, but unless there are all these trucks that media was talking about no one can be totally sure. Media and anger, right. That's the thing I hate the most about Americans, Europeans and Russians the most. Most of the people don't even try to think about current events or predict their consequences. They only have an urge to shout patriotic nonsense. Remember Vietnam? First people were supporting the army in the region, but when hippies appeared those very people were blaming the government for war. And I don't think that political incompetence of citizens is here to blame. Just a wish to show off.

Well, have no other options than agreeing about your thoughts on the mass media. But sometimes they go ultra insane just to justify the country. Like "We nuked Hiroshima to save them from Soviets!". Yes, nuking is better. Russia is not said, but it admitted USSR crimes and paid contributions to Finland and Poland.

That may actually be the point, yes. Nowadays agreements mean nothing. Even the UN does not play any role at all anymore. World is coming back to times when superpowers ruled everything.

Maybe it's different in the West after all. In post-Soviet countries there is no special general for the president. The president is both the country's administration and the highest rank command general.

I never mentioned open military actions. Nowadays wars are not started by invasions and US know it better than everyone else. First western states create random "Democracy universities", through grants they train and recruit political pro-western opposition and then...well, Ukraine, Lybia are good examples.
The fact that there are a lot of those pro-American opposition members in Russian who are sometimes reaching amazing levels of absurdness to praise the west (Like Sotnik, who was calling Russia a despotic country because it doesn't allow people to walk with weapons in open. And was praising Ukraine as a true democracy because no one was stopping people cleaning RPGs and machineguns in the middle of Kiev.) Such "wars" are way more effective than open invasion. You turn people against their country and the government can't do anything, because if they don't stop protesters they end up with a coup, and If they do the west will proclaim them totalitarian and despotic regimes.

Actually, no. Odessa and Crimea were the last points.

Well, that's right, actually.

Politically Ukraine has rights to call Crimea their territory...the same way my country can call Palestinian territories theirs. There are a lot of mishaps which make both Khruschev's Crimea giveaway to Ukraine and Israel occupying Palestinian territories not very legal. But USSR collapsed and Crimea was Ukrainian at that time, so yes, they have juridical right to call it theirs. However, many people forget to ask Crimean citizens first. They don't even try to, because of sanctions. Still there were 6 French diplomats who visited it recently and you can read their report if you want. The "occupied" citizens of Crimea are not so "occupied" by their own opinion and they are pretty much good with Crimea being Russian, considering current Ukraine's state. Many factories, projects, memorials and concerns were just buried/frozen with Crimea being Ukraine and brought back to life when Russia took over the control over the peninsula. "Surely, many peoples were enslaved by Rome. But were they actually feeling bad being Roman slaves?"

The blood spilling will stop when people finally face the facts. All the time both Russian and European leaders are bragging about how military actions should be stopped and how both sides should lay weapons. But will they lay weapons? No. Sometimes you should face the fact of crisis and act, instead of doing stupid talks about how everything should be fixed.

I don't mind "justifiable antagonists"(Enclave from Fallout 2, like them way more than BoS TosterFuckers; Senator Armstrong from MGR) or "playable antagonists". I wouldn't even mind seeing my country as evil side for once, FOR ONCE, not always. But the way Russia is portrayed in most of the video games is just over the top. And I don't even have to mention "Tom Clancy's ******** Conviction". His books are so retarded than I laugh every time when I try to read it. If you want I can lend you the the list of his book sins from the technical point. Even American military vehicle mechanics called him stupid.

Well, it was nice to chat. But I think our argument has come to dead end as we both have serious arguments and reasonable opinions. If you want for your word to be the last one, you can answer. However I got everything I was interested to hear, thanks.

Also Spud will chainsaw me in the stomach If I don't stop junking his page, hehe.

+3 votes     reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Sep 6 2015 replied:

The last thing I wanna tell you explains Russia's reason for supporting Putin. It also partly touches your point about dead hostages. For your country the 70s USSR is the Evil Empire, as for the Europe. But as my parents told me, it was a heaven for them: Order, Safety, Strong Economy, nothing was bought from the west, everything was produced in USSR. When the USSR collapsed in 1991 you know what Russia turned into? Shithole. The president Yeltsin is a drunken retard, Economy is devastated (1$=6500 roubles), banditism, crime, racket, drugs, alcoholism(Yes, the Soviet Russia was very anti-alcoholic), Russian mafia appears, no food in the shops, everything is expensive, first Chechen war starts, Russian army is rotten junk. And on par with that Russia has been friends with USA and Americans were calling Yeltsin (and they still do) a GOOD president for Russia. Then in 2000 FSB removes Yeltsin from the president seat and puts the ex-KGB officer, also known as Putin. Comparing Russia now to Russia back then it's a great difference. The economy has risen, the army has been rebuilt. Yes, there are still lots to go, but what has been done by Putin is already noticeable. He brought Russia back to life and Russian people are grateful him for that. So now whenever US speaks of "Russian democratization" and that "Russia and US have to be friends" they remember THOSE times when Russia was democratic and friends with US and they don't want it. They learned one lesson: You can't be friends with US If you are stronger. And I kinda understand Russians. You don't have to, but you should try at least.
The other reason for them to be anti-American is that WW2 theme is very painful for them. MUCH more people died in Russia during WW2 than at any western country. And now American government supports new Ukrainian government and it's army, which is basically:

+3 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 6 2015 replied:

Yes, I understand why they support Putin. I probably would too if I were Russian. Just wish both the U.S. and Russia could both mutually respect each other. Even if they don't see eye to eye most the time.

Definitely agree about at least trying to be friends.

Yes, Ive heard a lot from both Spud and others when talking with orange Tomato about the Ukrainian government and "Nazis".

Do understand, I believe in Ukrainians right to their land in Crimea, but just because I do doesn't mean I support everything about their government. That's up for their people to change as time goes along. As of now, i don't support the total Civil War that's going on in their country.

I could say the same for Syria and Assad. But I genuinely believe the Assad government should step down and allow new leadership. Enough people have died and suffered both in Ukraine, and Syria.

All this blood spilling needs to stop.

+1 vote     reply to comment
nasorog Sep 6 2015 replied:

> "...Over 130 hostages died, including nine foreigners due to the Russian government using chemical weapons..."


i see evil russia don't make sleep at night. don't be scared, we are not planning to attack you in nearest observable time


+2 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 6 2015 replied:

Nasarog, this isn't anti Russian hate I'm spouting.

I'm simply bringing up a point that the Russia government has done it's own bad things as has my government. (Which by comparison my government has instigated far worse) Nonetheless Russia has it's own issues to contend with.

Both the British and American governments actually said Russia's actions were "justifiable" in that hostage Crisis when they used those weapons. Which I personally don't believe ever was justifiable. But nonetheless they said that anyways.

+2 votes     reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Sep 6 2015 replied:

And one more thing about Russia taking world to Cold War. The thing is Russia didn't have intentions to do it at the first time. Let's just take a look at western media. Ever since the USSR fall and Russia taking another course all western movies/gave have been giving Russians either drunkards, either bloodthirsty monsters look with or without any reasons for it. Examples? Battlefield series: Evil Russians capture the world. Call of Duty series: Russian soldiers walk through the streets and shoot civilians with assault rifles (The very thing U.S. backed Georgian forces were doing in Osetia, if you want a proof, there are videos of it filmed by Georgians themselves), 5 Days of War movie, filmed without any proofs, Baltic movies about how Soviet soldiers were were murdering everything in 1942 and Hitler's Germany's soldiers have been protecting Europe from evil commies and so on, and so on. No matter what Russians have been doing - they always end up evil in the media. You think Russians feel good from being portrayed this way all the time? No. So I thing it's not the Russians who drag the world into Cold War. It's your states that didn't ever leave the Cold War world and still prefer to blame Russia all the time rather than adapt to new world. Despite that Russian and Chinese special forces still decided to evacuate American and European citizens from burning Yemen when no one of their countries came to save them. The thing is you can freely run around the village and tell everyone just for fun that your neighbor is killing people with an axe at night. But you have no right to complain when he actually breaks into your house with an axe at night, because his nerves aren't made of steel.

I don't believe in "White vs Black" morale from fairy tales, and that is what I recommend to everyone. There is no "White" our world. Every country can only either be "Black", either "Grey".

+4 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 6 2015 replied:

Points noted.

I wish the games would find a enemy other than Russia all the time to portray as antagonists. Why not make up some new conflicts around other countries that don't necessarily involve superpowers? I love the west and my country, but damn well wish they'd change. Especially when it comes to media and stereotyping.

Again, you've made good arguments.

As for me, when it comes to black and white. My belief stems in the idea of God. There is a black and white in my eyes, when it comes to right and wrong. Even though us people screw up constantly, I do believe we should try to keep the standard high, even though we could never fully live up to it.

Either that, or the bar just drops lower and lower.

+2 votes     reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Sep 7 2015 replied:

I agree with Ivan. I have to admit my bias here. I really, really love Russia. They saved Serbias arse so many times we stoped counting awhile ago. And they are one of most underrated people. Their immense contribution has been ignored or even denied for decades now. Any basically educated person should know about a fricken army of Russian scientists, artists, writers etc. And any truly honest person should acknowledge the sacrifice of tens of millions of Russian/Soviet citizens, not make movies/games/other media in which they're shown as the "necessary evil" or some similar BS. More than 30 000 Russian soldiers died in liberating Serbia in WWII. But I say that's not true. I say, millions died. Every soldier that died from Arctic to Caspian died for Serbia. There wouldn't be Serbs if they didn't fight like they did. And now, they're being compared to ******' Nazi occupators. Tell that to any Russian, Serb or Jew and you'll get punched in the nose (rightfully). I'm not saying you think that, just making a point about rampant Russophobia. My grandfather was saved by a Russian Major,who died some time later. And my grandpa never even got his name. God knows how many nameless Russian heroes were forgotten or even proclaimed invaders, rapists etc. My grandpa was outraged when some bunch of NATO "activists" started talkin' about supposed war crimes committed by Russian troops. That could have passed with someone else, but not here, not in this millennium.

+6 votes     reply to comment
Joshua Brisco
Joshua Brisco Sep 7 2015 replied:

That's your beliefs on that matter and I'll respect them.

I'm sure that even in the Soviet Union there were good people and soldiers. Even if one's country has a bastard government at times, that still doesn't stop citizens and people from trying to be good despite the storms.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Baron Brosephus
Baron Brosephus Jul 29 2015 says:

To all those think MiGs suck, from Russia with love:

+3 votes     reply to comment
3rdShockArmy Aug 10 2015 replied:

My country can attest that. After years of sanctions and embargo, our seriously underserviced MiG-29s performed flawlessly in NATO bombing in 1999. Even MiG-21s did a good job.

+3 votes     reply to comment
OminousSpudd Creator
OminousSpudd Jul 23 2015 says:

Haven't got $120 to blow on Battlefront Get Everything In One Package Premium Limited Ultimate With Benefits Edition Skrub. Guess that means I'm missing out on Han Solo's blaster, an ion torpedo, and a special grenade. gg dice

... Jokes, you think I'd buy your over-priced vapourware at all? Get real.

+1 vote   reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Jul 26 2015 replied:

Maybe I'll sound like a raging oldfag, but srsly m8
New Battlefront sux compared to Battlefront 2
No drivable AT-AT, not so many maps, not so many jedis and NO SPACE BATTLES

+2 votes     reply to comment
OminousSpudd Creator
OminousSpudd Jul 28 2015 replied:

Yet a ton of assets are there for space battles... ISDs, Nebulon-Bs, Mon Calmari, and CV90s. What does this mean? Space battles will arrive... in a later DLC package.

AT-AT on rails, 20v20 player count, broken Frostbite engine (terrible tickrate), can't maintain a stable 60fps on the PS4 (what does that mean for the PC?), 3 heroes? Given Han Solo's blaster is an equippable weapon for pre-order skrubs... no Han?

Also, let's not forget DICE's map design team, who apparently know crap all about map design in an FPS... ahem, BF4.

I plugged hours and hours into Battlefront and Battlefront 2, but sadly I will NOT be buying this latest iteration. If you're a raging oldfag, I'm one as well. Maybe we're both "Too old for this ****."

+2 votes   reply to comment
TypicalRussianIvan Jul 31 2015 replied:

Well, I wouldn't be so sure about Space Battles just because of added ships.
And CV90 is not that much of a big ship. It can be easily parked on the battlefield like Millenium Falcon in the battle of Hoth or Republican Ship on the Tatooine.
It can also be a battlefield like a Boeing plane in cs_747.
Remember Battle of Geonosis in the first Battlefront? It wasn't space battle, but the still were Acclamators floating over the battlefield and you could even see Venator somewhere higher.

Also, If i got it right, no playable Droidekas.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Cookiestealer Jul 16 2015 says:

Just want to thank for that you seeking some truth, mate.

+3 votes     reply to comment
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