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Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 3:55pm says:

@ balrogslayer:
Afaik hoho should be right.^^

@ hoho:
We don't plan a major update about the dwarves - we wanted to show you the reworked skins, as we got new material (because of the movies^^) and therefore were able to create better skins. :)
On moddb we show every day one skin and afterwards we're just writing a small update on our german website which shows all of the skins together, but nothing more. As said we are working very hard on the balance atm, therefore it is difficult to show you many things. Of course we could tell you:
"Gondor soldiers got 50 health more... and now 25 less again... and now 50 more but 10% less damage... and now 20 health less and 20% more damage..." :P
But I think noone would like such updates. :D

We haven't integrated the dwarves into the new balance system yet, but probably they will get a bit weaker. They will probably always have more health than the average hero, just because they are dwarves. :P As far as I remember most abilities of the dwarve remain (perhaps some little tweaks here and there).^^ We'll see if those abilities are too strong in the new versions or not. Of course we try to make a good balance.^^ Therefore (and for less bugs xD) we got some more beta- and balance-testers. We have more balance- and beta-testers than we ever had before.^^

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 3:24pm replied:

"Real" Fans should also know this. And a world where the evil person is unkillable doesn't really fit into this, therefore Sauron is not unkillable. Additionally Tolkien used many parts of the edda for his lotr-mythology. And there noone was perfect, everyone had weaknesses and sometimes weak persons managed to defeat strong persons.
Therefore it is much closer to Tolkien's idea when there is no unit who can't be countered. :)

And as you might have read before (because I have written it many times in the past few days):
ALL heroes are weakened in the next version. So all of your points against Aragorn etc. can be neglected. Additionally Aragorn can be killed easier than Sauron, as he can only kill some troups when he has his army of the dead ability ready. But as soon as it is on cooldown... well, no chance. Sauron instead has his enormous melee attack which has no cooldown.^^
-----------------------------------
Finally I have to say again: You are always just arguing with the lore, but as this is a book we have to consider much more different aspects. Sometimes we have to make compromises, as the game would otherwise be very bad.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 3:24pm replied:

8.) The last time I checked Gothmog won, that's correct, but he also needed a lot of time and he got injurys in that fight. And why should Sauron kill Aragorn within a few seconds, when Melkor had no chance to do the same with Fingolfin in a few seconds?
And what is with Luthien? Her magic was also stronger than Melkor's (at least in some areas) but still she was "just" an elf, while Melkor was a Vala.
9.) Why should he still be able? Sauron already had problems with fighting lesser beings while Melkor was still alive. In the third age he probably had less power than in the first age.
Sauron was a strong fighter, yes. But not unbeatable. And yes, Aragorn can be killed by a single orc. But now look at my lost group of comments and read the gameplay and balance part again. ;) Those are VERY important parts of a game, as you can stick very close to the lore, but still have a ****** game. You always have to look at the gameplay and balance, otherwise the game is very frustrating and noone wants to play it.

10. Read the whole sentence, not only a part of it. ;) I said "Perhaps". Tolkien never wrote anything about it, but he also never said: "Sauron was a total badass. Without problems he just fought against Gil-Galad and all the other heroes and killed them with a fart. No hero had a chance to survive more than 1 second when he fought against Sauron."
11.)
So you're saying that you are a "real" tolkien fan and I'm no real Tolkien fan?
Most of the things you said show me the opposite. There is more than just the books, Tolkien had survived the great war and he wrote the lotr as he wanted to handle the memories. That was one of the reasons, of course there were some more important reasons (f.e. the elvish language).

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 3:24pm replied:

4.)
Same as above. And you said that Aragorn can't kill Sauron. ;) Therefore (and because he can be easily protected with orcs) he is a sure win, as he can destroy everything and let the catapults destroy the walls without giving the other player a chance to react.

5.) No, he wasn't completely powerless. He has lost most of his power, but not everything.
That orc wasn't in the books, that is correct. (believe me or not, but I have read them and know what happens in the books ;) )
But it is a very good symbol for Tolkien's lore.
Even the strongest beings can be killed by small creatures. And even the smallest people can change the outcome of a battle. one of Tolkien's most important topics in lotr was that there can be very strong and powerful persons, but all of them can be defeated by small and weaker persons. Everyone can change something and the important and strong ones can't be sure to survive everything.
6.)
I know it because Tolkien himself wrote it. He wrote that Gandalf would have ended there and Gandalf himself already knew that he couldn't defeat them all. (this was written in the book)
And just because he can kill a Balrog doesn't mean that he can win against many wargs and orcs... How do you know what the magic of Gandalf is like? Tolkien always tried to make a subtle magic and not gigantic fireballs.
7.)
Yeah and who managed to make him fall? ;)
8.) Yes, Fingolfin was a normal elf. He was a king, but still a normal elf. Faramir and Boromir are also just normal humans. They may be strong for their race but still: they just belong to the race and are nothing higher.
Fingolfin was a strong elf, but Aragorn was also a very strong Dunedain. (imo stronger than his ancestors, as he managed to fight against the ring)

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 3:24pm replied:

Let's move on to the spells you listed... what happens if the Mordor player gets sauron before someone has such high tier spells? This can happen. Then you're basically ****** up. Additionally there are a lot of factions which don't have spells which are strong versus heroes. So they don't have a chance if we'ld be using spells as counter. It is important that the counter is available as soon as the countered unit can be on the battlefield. This is also very difficult for spells, as you can't really combine the money, the spell points and the luck of a player so that you can always have the counter. (otherwise again: very bad and frustrating gameplay)
Therefore: Spells are no good idea.

" A huge army "
Same as heroes - additionally you can easily protect sauron against most damage with your orcs. A hero should have a counter beside of "a 10 times stronger and more expensive army".
2.
As you might have noticed I have played the mod since version 1.0 and have noticed most of the things in the mod. Sauron doesn't have so much health, as he was totally overpowered before. He killed everything without dying. But if he would have more resistance versus heroes it would be very similar to giving him more health. As said above a fortress with towers is NO counterplay, as the space where the towers can be build is very limited and if sauron can give the player complete mapcontrol a simple fortress won't stop the player. And clmibing walls... hahaha... We've got our clown hat today, do we? As I have written above walls and towers are no problem as soon as you have mapcontrol. When someone can kill everything beside of a fortress he is still overpowered as you hvae other units who can easily destroy the walls afterwards.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 3:22pm says:

@Mairon:
You still haven't said anything against most of my points. And everyone interprets the books of tolkien in a slightly different way. "True" fans (as you have used this phrase) know that there is much more in the lotr than just the written words which you can read.
But now to the answer for your points:
1.)
"All Gondor heroes combined?"
To say it in your words: "I hope you are joking".
I have already answered this point. Just read the gameplay section of my last comment. If you have to combine all heroes, Sauron would always have a huge advantage, as the Mordor player can just build Sauron and afterwards the Gondor player always needs more resources AND probably even looses more money throughout the fight. Therefore the mordor player will always have a win after the fight, no matter what he is doing. This is something which is very bad for all kind of games. You always need a counter for a hero which is not much more expensive, as the game will be completely imbalanced otherwise. Every unit should be countered by another unit (or combination of units) which costs less.
And arrow towers... really?
So you can just build 3-4 catapults and destroy them. As you also have sauron (who can easily kill everyone) the enemy can't attack the catapults without losing much more money. Therefore arrow towers are no good counter for a hero. He would be able to destroy everything and afterwards the enemy player has no chance, as he can't come out of his castle and you can siege him without any problems.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 11:39am replied:

I personally love to play star wars battlegrounds (a very old game - aoe I meets star wars :P)
and stronghold (the first one and crusader).
The other rts I like to play are already named.^^ (aom, aoe II, bfme, warcraft)

If you're also thinking about some games which take place in the modern time (of in the future), I also like command and conquer (all cnc until cnc 3... cnc 4 is ******^^), empire at war and world in conflict.

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 11:23am replied:

If Sauron would be able to kill heroes, how could you kill him? He could just run into your base and destroy everything without any counterplay. That's a boring gameplay, as you don't have to think about your doings. Additionally it is very bad for the balance, as you always need to invest much more money than his normal price into killing him. Therefore buying sauron and attacking would ALWAYS be a win for Mordor, which would also be stupid. (you can do it over and over again and you always know that you are killing more than you are loosing)
Therefore for Gameplay and for Balance it is better when he can be countered. And if a hero is strong vs heroes, he has to kill heroes which cost more than he, otherwise he would be useless.
And as I (and some users) already said:
Saruman was killed by wormtongue, Gandalf (in the movies) nearly by a normal orc.(pippin saved him)
If the eagles wouldn't have saved Gandalf, he would also have died in the hobbit.
Gothmog (also a Maia in the first age) was killed by an elf. Normal elves also managed to fight against Morgoth. So why shouldn't a dunedain be possible to fight against a Maia?
Yes, in earlier days Sauron managed to fight against those heroes, but we don't if Aragorn has a different fighting style aor gil-galad just had bad luck or something like that. There are dozens of reasons why Aragorn could be able to fight against Sauron. (and btw: Sauron feared Aragorn.^^)

Finally as I have already said:
We can't just take all things from the book and add them exactly in the game. The gameplay and balance would be horrible. We always try to be as close to the book as possible, but we also have to consider other things as this is a game.

+3 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 11:20am replied:

Before I start the "main" post:
I personally would say that Mordor stomps Gondor. All gondorian heros and troups can be killed easily with many catapults and archers. (and the usual orc spam)

And do you really think that we are just doing some change without looking at the rest?...
You haven't even tested the game yet and still you think that you know exactly what the balance is like.^^ The whole balancesystem will be changed, the countersystem will be reworked, just nearly everything will change.
And Gandalf's price will be less, that's correct... but do you really believe that we are just reducing the price without taking him some of his poer? Most heroes atm are very strong (too strong) and we don't like such abilities which one **** all units. (even though some of them are balanced... it's just not fun to play against it)
Therefore all the heroes will also get changed.
So why do you think that mordor's heroes will be nerfed, but gondor's heroes are untouched?
And I already told you that orcs will also probably be strengthened.

Therefore all of your points int he two lists can be neglected.
Perhaps you should start to read what I have written before I have to tell the same things again and again and again...

And I have already told you about the aragorn vs sauron thing:
This is a game. We can't just use all things one to one in the game.
We always have to consider many things:
(a) Lore
(b) Gameplay
(c) Balance
(and much more)

We also told you that even normal people can kill Maia. Tolkien always tried to be as realistic as possible, therefore even people like Sauron and Gandalf can be killed by normal humans, even by humans like Denethor.

+4 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 9:01am replied:

Random?
You mean which ring-gandalf you'll get?
Nope, Gandalf is not random, Saruman is random.
If you have Gandalf the grey, he'll become Gandalf the corrupted and if you have Gandalf the white he'll become Gandalf the blessed.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 5:22am replied:

I haven't created such maps yet as it is a lot of time to make it and it is very difficult to balance such a map. And I personally always have probelms to find more than 4-5 players. :P Therefore I always like maps with a small player number.
But I will think about it. :)

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 10 2014, 5:21am replied:

Okay, that explains a lot.
The game is NOT balanced for 8 player battles. The balance is made for 1vs1 and 2vs2.
All games with more players can always be imbalanced. It is not possible to create a balance with unique factions which is balacned in normal games and in fun games, as ffas.
Therefore some things that are balanced in normal games are suddenly too strong/weak.
Even games with a very good balance (as warcraft 3) are not balanced when you're fighting with 8 or more players.^^

0 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 2:24pm replied:

If you mean "Kaserne", then yes. This bug is in many maps (fixed for all maps in the next version.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 2:23pm replied:

Give me 3 years with nothing to do, then I can make everything for you. ;)
I personally always like to create new fortress maps (cirith ungol, dol amroth and the new isengard map are all made by me^^), but it always needs a lot of time to create them. additionally there is a lot of time before mapping to think about the map design. Most MT Maps are looking very nice, but there are mostly some problems with the gameplay. (f.e. the current MT Map. If you play with Gondor in MT you can build a normal catapult, put it in the second ring and kill all buildings which are closer to the fortress than the starting citadel. that is very frustrating for the attacker)
Such things have to be considered and planned before you can start with designing a the fortress.^^ Dol Amroth took me about 5 months and several hundreds of hours to create.

There will be some more skirmish maps in 4.0, but until now there is no new fortress. Perhaps we manage to create a new fortress for the next version or the version afterwards, but I can't promise anything.

+3 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 12:25pm replied:

Yeah, of course it is not very nice to play... but it is impossible to change the AI and give them the ability to defend such fortresses. The only possibility is to make a whole new map where everything is scripted (as it is in the campaign)

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 11:24am replied:

I personally think that it is possible to conquer a fortress - especially as the AI doesn't really use the defenses of the fortress.(walls, gates)
It is difficult if you try it alone, as the defender has some economy buildings at the beginning, but it is not impossible. As soon as you have survived the early stages of the game, it is not as difficult as it is on a normal map.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 9:43am replied:

The problem are not the pikemen.
Swordmen are underpowered, that's correct.
But the main problem are the archers.^^
Archers are strong vs all infantry troups (they kill pikemen without any problems), monsters and upgrades. Additionally they are only weak vs knights and you can easily defend them vs knights.
Pikemen aren't that effective vs buildings, as they can easily be killed by archers when you try to harass with them. Mostly the current version is about archers, knights and pikemen. (and monsters when playing some factions)
The biggest problem is that archers in LG are very strong, as they destroy most armies very easily. Huge archer armies can only be countered by other archers or catapults. (knights don't help you as you can defend them with pikemen)

But we're working on it.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 7:41am replied:

As said, this is not possible. Those rohirrim cost a lot of money and when mordor just uses some pikemen with his orcs, all the rohirrim die. Rohan is one of my favorite factions, as you have very good possibilities to harass and disturb your enemy - but when you can't harass your, but have to fight him directly, you're in big trouble in most of the times. (only the galadhrim are really strong in those fights)

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 9 2014, 7:39am replied:

Correct.
Mordor can't build so many orc pits, therefore it can still build a huge army, but when an amry is destroyed, mordor can't just rebuild it within a second. (so a won fight against mordor can finally hurt mordor :D )
Probably the orcs are also a bit buffed, as we all don't like the weak orcs. If you just look at the movies, quite often the orcs killed gondorian soldiers without any problems... in the previous versions we needed to make them very weak. Now we can buff them a bit, so that it is more realistic and better balanced. :)

+3 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 8 2014, 6:44pm replied:

Wir haben da schon häufiger drüber geredet.
Ich wiederhol nochmal die wichtigsten Gründe:
1. Die Arbeit
Viele Konzepte funktionieren nur für eines der beiden Bausysteme. Zum Beispiel das derzeitige Isengartsystem funktioniert wunderbar im derzeitigen Stand, jedoch wird es nicht in dem System mit dem festen Bauen funktionieren. Wir müssten also quasi zwei komplett verschiedene Mods erstellen. Das wäre jedoch etwas, was wir nciht vorhatten und nicht machen wollen. Wir wollen EINE Mod.^^

2. Balance
Wir müssten auch zwei komplett unterschiedliche Versionen im Bezug auf die Balance erstellen, da die Balance niemals für beide Versionen gleich wäre. Im freien Bauen kann man z.B. 20 Orkkasernen bauen und aus allen die kostenlosen Orks spammen, beim festen Bauen ist das jedoch nicht möglich. Das ist ebenfalls eine Heidenarbeit und würde dazu führen, dass es sehr schwer ist von dem einen auf das andere umzusteigen, weil man dann immer das eine gewöhnt ist und beim anderen sich dann komplett umgewöhnen müsste. (und es würde sich finde ich auch sehr komisch anfühlen)

3. MP Community
Die MP Community ist bereits sehr klein. Wir haben uns deshalb (und aus anderen Gründen) auch immer gegen eine direkte Unterteilung von manchen Gameplaysachen geäußert. Wir machen eine Mod und das ist dann die einzige offizielle. Wenn wir hier sowas erlauben, wie geht es dann weiter? Nochmal eine Unterteilung mit keinen und normalen Creeps? (was auch schon gewünscht wurde)
Eine Version mit Helden, eine ohne? Eine mit Spells, eine ohne?
Da hat man dann am Ende 16 verschiedene Versionen und man findet niemals einen Mitspieler, da jeder nur mit seinen Einstellungen spielen will.

Wenn du deutsch schreiben willst kannst du auch einfach zu unserer richtigen Website gehen und dort schreiben. Die meisten News kommen dort auch ein paar Tage früher (da sie anschließend noch übersetzt und von den Admins auf moddb genehmigt werden müssen) und wir sind dort manchmal auch etwas aktiver.^^

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 8 2014, 6:35pm replied:

First of all, it is not only my opinion, but also the opinion of the best edain players.^^
There are some good factions atm, but more or less the strongest are goblins, mordor and isengard.
The problem with those three factions is that in MG-LG they can build gigantic armies without any problems.
Mordor especially has the free orcs - In MG you can have easily about 10-20 orc pits and with those buildings you can build 1000 cp of orcs within 30 seconds. Therefore you can always rebuild a complete army in less than a minute and don't care at all. While the enemy always have to pay much for his troups, you can just spam your units and he has no chance to leave his castle. Even gigantic aoe spells, which can kill your whole army doesn't help him, as you can just rebuild all of your troups in less than a minute.
The orcs alone are strong - but not the main problem. You have a never ending meat shield with them. In addition to them you also can spam very cheap catapults and archres. As you always have hundreds of orcs in front of them, no enemy will be able to attack them and they can easily deal all the damage, while your orcs just stop the enemies from attacking your distance fighters. Especially the cheap catapults can be deadly. 10-20 catapults in LG are build easily and with them your enemy has no chance, as they deal a lot of damage to both troups and buildings and the troups can't attack, as they always get thrown back.
The only chance to stop Mordor is in EG, but even there it is difficult when you aren't goblins. As soon as you have survived the EG you can't really loose against most factions.

+4 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 6 2014, 3:47am replied:

Only siege weapons and monsters can attack walls and gates. Same as in Bfme I :)

+4 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 11:22am replied:

We are working on it and it will be better in the next version, but the AI for fortresses is always a very difficult part of the AI programming. (if not THE most difficult part)

+3 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 11:22am replied:

That is not possible... You have the normal terrain, which has a fixed height. The texture of the terrain can't be made just 100 feet higher. It is always exactly on the terrain.

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 10:44am replied:

Where is the link between nerfs and cool things?^^
Mordor is one of the strongest factions, therefore it has to be nerfed as we don't want a faction to be stronger than another one.^^ Additionally Mordor already has many cool things. :P (the orcs, sauron, nazgul, mouth, trolls, etc.)
But we are always trying to make every factionc ool and unique. As all factions, Mordor will have more than one economy building, etc. So Mordor will get some new stuff.

There is more than Mordor missing... ;) f.e. Lothlorien is also missing. Additionally we haven't shown you all yet implemented systems. Furthermore the gameplay changes and many smaller changes are also not shown yet.^^ There is still a lot we could show before we release the next version.^^

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 8:38am replied:

That's a problem with the engine. It has nothing to do with edain, it has already appeared in Bfme II. As we can't change the engine we can't change that, sorry. But in the next version this problem doesn't appear anymore because of the new building (and wall^^) system. :)

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 8:08am replied:

We are trying a few things, we can't tell you exactly how it will be done finally. The new building system itself is already a huge nerf to mordor. (probably it has to be buffed afterwards, especially the orcs.)
But Mordororcs will stay free.^^

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 7:21am replied:

they can build them... but how often do you see heroes? They are build nearly never and in a normal game you see mostly 0-1 heroes, but not more.
Additionally it fits much better with cheaper, but also weaker heroes. Heroes are no one man armies, who should be able to kill full armies alone. (Tolkien always tried to be realistic and a single man killing hundreds of thousands of units is not realistic)
Thirdly the game is less luckbased - sometimes it is more or less luck if a hero survives or not. If the hero costs 6000 and dies, while the hero of the enemy survives... well, gg. 3000 is still a very huge number, but not as devastating as 6000.
Finally it is much easier to balance those heros and make the heros so that they are neither overpowered, nor useless.

Therefore it is more lorefriendly, better for the SP (as you see more often heros facing you), better gameplay AND better balance.^^

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 7:16am replied:

No, that can't be integrated, as the spellbook abilities are different.

+1 vote     mod: Edain Mod
Gnomi
Gnomi Mar 5 2014, 7:15am replied:

Mordor's orcs are totally overpowered atm... yes, it takes a time to build them, but atm you can just build about 20 orc pits and build 1000 cp of rocs within 30 seconds.
Goblins can be build faster, as they also cost something. Mordor is beside of goblins and isengard the most overpowered faction in 3.8.1.^^

The AI can build everything without special units, that is no bug. If we would make it otherwise the AI wouldn't be able to build those buildings at all, as they can't handle many of our systems.
Mordor will have many possibilities, similar to the current state, but mostly mordor will get a bit weakened. As said they can kill most factions easily atm. Goblins are strong in the EG vs Mordor, but you can survive as Mordor and afterwards you can kill them easily in LG.

+2 votes     mod: Edain Mod
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