Oh. HI :D
Merkava IV turret on T-90 chassis? Disgusting perverts! lol jk xD
Sorry I kinda repeated myself there twice lol. Sorry for the long comment xD
Yes indeed, modern KE penetrators (APFSDS) are so strong, they never simply "bounce off" an angular armor plate, that's not possible, because they are simply too powerfull. They have such a poweful penetrating potential that they will always penetrate the first layers of the composite armor (the surface). That's why such thing as "shot-trap" doesn't exist on modern MBT's anymore. Because the point of modern composite armor is not to delfect/ricochet a APFSDS penetrator, but to slow the penetrating KE rod down so much, that it will lose its potential penetrating power and eventually stop completely, so that it will get stuck in the armor itself - but it won't fully penetrate and so the crew will not be harmed. Whether a composite armor "works" (as it is intended) or not depends on many different factors, but that's another story to be told. But the fact remains, that a APFSDS penetrator will never bounce off an angulare armor. It will always penetrate the first layer and if the armor works as it is intended, then the penetrator gets stuck in the armor and it won't go any further. So that the crew will not be harmed and the tank is not destroyer and it is still operational. But as to how much it penetrates into the armor depends on the individual armor applique itself. Sure, the tank will be damaged to some degree, but that can be repaired after the battle in a few hours. It is at least much cheaper to only repair a part of the tank, than to built another one entirely from scratch again.
me neither :o
The british Challenger 2 MBT is a copy of the Russian post-war tank IS-7.
The T-90 is much more in the need of some major upgrades, as it is far behind, and more outdated than the M1 Abrams, or any other western MBT for that matter. Since after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russian tanks have not been modernized to modern standards. Unlike western MBT's which have continuously been upgraded and redesigned throughout the last years.
The T-90 has the worst protection, because it still uses the outdated Kontakt-5 ERA from the 1980's, which is outdated by now. It may have been very effective back in the 80's, but it's insufficient for today's protection standards. Now, the M829A3 and DM53 (used by the Abrams and Leopard) are both able to penetrate the Kontakt-5 ERA (and of course the basic armor of the tank). In fact, even the earlier M829A2 from the early 90's was already credited of being able to penetrate the K-5)
On top of this, the 125mm gun that is used by all Russian tanks, has not received any upgrades or any new tank rounds capable of penetrating the front armor of the Leopard 2A6 or the M1A2 SEP. At least not the turret front. Maybe it could penetrate the lower hull front of the western MBT's, at close range, but I'll leave this open to debate.
Although the Russians did come up with a few new prototypes recently, such as the T-95 (with an impressive 152mm gun), or the T-90AM presented in 2011, which has the new developed Relikt ERA armor. But neither of them have entered service yet, and probably will remain as such for the next few years.
lol nice, is that a E-100 twin barreled flak tank "Krokodil" with twin 88mm guns that I spot in the upper right corner?
i know, but MBT's are the modern working horse of the Armed Forces today, hence the reference..
Is there a way that you could add the prototype tanks such as Maus, KV-3, T29 and T-95 from the mod FHSW (Forgotten hope Secret Weapons)?
Because the FHSW mod doesn't work with CO-OP bot support, so if you could add those tanks, that would be very nice.
You don't say!
All I'm askinng for is one thing: Could you please at least import the Noah Battleship from the game Nexus? This is the only ship I care about, I don't care about all the other Nexus ships. Only the Noah Battleship is important to me, because it is my favorite ship of all time. It really means everything to me. If you could add only this one ship to your mod, that would be super awesome and I'd be very satisfied! if it isn't too much work for you that is... but it would definitely be worth your effort. And don't worry about not having the permission, Nexus is dead game since more than 8 years, they won't complain. Trust me. You are totally free to use their models. It's only up to you my friend...
I really like the idea of making a strategy genre game out of the models from W.o.T.
Some of the prototype tanks deserve more recognition in other games too.
But it does.
this comment was totally uncalled for. the person you responded to wasn't even talking about the L2.
Nope, both the m5 and M4 would most porbably lose in a head-to-head fight against the Hetzer. Maybe the hetzer isn't facing it YET in this photo, but it is just about to turn.
The stuart's tiny 37mm gun can not penetrate the Hetzer's front armor, which is about 100-110mm effective because of good slope. Neither can the Sherman penetrate it with its short 75mm gun which penetrates only like 80mm with standard APBC ammo. Although the Hetzer has only 50mm thin armor plating but it's sloped @60° and that doubles the effect.
The M4 or M5 typically can't destroy it from the front. On the other hand, the hetzer's 75mm gun could theoretically penetrate both American tanks from over 1,100m still...
tl;dr Stuart and Sherman are pretty much screwed. :P (except if they out flank the hetzer, then he will be screwed)
Read again, I didn't say it has 100mm thick armor plating, I said the armor is about 100-110mm EFEFCTIVE because it is angled at 60°.
Can you do the math? 50mm armor plate at 60° angle = 100mm LOS.
Oh noes he made me look bad on the internet, i'm gonna go cry in the corner now :P
astounding how could I possibly have missed the details during my analysis back then... anyway, i give you +1. Gj
What is your point? Of course this is the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment (Cyclops Squadron) that was ambushed in the town "Az Zubayr" which is near Basra. This drawing just shows the figh. So what exactly are you trying to disprove?
And we know that not a single CHR2 was ever "destroyed" by enemy fire. we never claimed otherwise. However we only discussed about that one CHR2 that was penetrated through the lower front armor in al-Amarah. That's all.
So once gain, I don't see your point. What are you trying to dispriove here? The CHR2 probably has got the most successful combat history of any other modern MBTs so far.
hmmm. Are you sure? This is not to be confused with the other image here
Same battle - but different images ;)
nope. Chr1 and Chieftain are two whole different tanks. For example, it's more like Tiger I to Tiger II. Or Pz III to Pz IV. Also different tank types with new shaped body/turret.
and by "modern armor" i meant regular composite armor design. Other armor types like Reactive armor works differently again.
If the Leopard 2 had an obvious shot-trap like this, do you not think they would have noticed and fixed this problem by now? Do you seriously think it would be one of the world's best selling MBT if it had such an obvious shot-trap? Please think a little and use your logic before making such arguments.
people who still speak of these shot-traps tend to make their conclusions from WW2 era tanks, not realizing the differences in both armor and penetrator tech between now and then. People like that are lacking or missing GREAT amount of newest informations of modern tank warfare. Modern APFSDS rounds, as a general rule, don't deflect like in WW2.
Modern long-rod kinetic energy penetrators (APFSDS) behave in a different way than old traditional solid shot armour-piercing rounds used in WW2.
Modern penetrators are so powerful in penetrating capabilities nowadays, they don't just "bounce off the armor and leave a scratch on it" they will now always penetrate in the first place and "go inside the armor package" anyway, they can not be stopped from penetrating the first layers. BUT, modern armor is designed to stop it from reaching the base armor. That's how it works today.
That's why the Leopard 2A5/ A6 with edge-shaped turret front does not form a shot-trap since it doesn't deflect the penetrators outwards to hit the hull or turret ring.
lol I was joking when I said it's "1980 ish". Sure, having no blowout panels is a drawback but it's still one of the TOP 5 best protected MBTs today. And there already are solutions available to increase protection against mentioned threats.
Best solution would be APS (Activ protection System) working both in Soft and Hard Kill way, which will be very effective to defeat HEATs, APFSDS, ATGMs and even top attacks from high trajectory like Javelin or EFP warheads from artillery ammunition like "BONUS".
Depends on the right circumstances, crew training, and a little bit of Luck. Since they can all destory each other, it wins the crew who detects the enemy first and makes the hit. I know you didn't seriously ask for a debate, i'm just rolling with your comment :) Re-post all the comments!
Seriously, i don't understand why they don't upgrade CHr2 with cased ammo and "blow-out panels" like the Leopard and M1 have. (the panels that would blow out forcing the blast upwards instead of towards the crew compartment). Even if the ammo is seperated but putting it with the crew exposed is dangerous.
Modern Western MBTs without blowout panels is so 1980-ish.
i don't get it. are you asking for the source?
i edited their faces out of the photos. why does it matter so much? the picture isn't about the soldiers anyway, it's about the tank.
Are you retarded? It's the flag of the german ISAF forces in Afghanistan. Upload.wikimedia.org
If you mean the Iron Cross, *facepalm*, it's the emblem of the Bundeswehr, it has nothing to do with nazis, this symbol was already used by the German army way before WW2. Seriously man it's 2012 now and you still relate the germans with nazis for something like this? Really? Educate yourself God ******* damnit.