Oh. HI :D
Actually, not. In fact, quite the opposite. Who would have thought things turn out like this? Now it's not Urkain vs Germany, but Ukraine (+ Germany and USA) vs Russia instead... very conspiring.
I see a dark future for Europe, if the European people don't unite with Russia against the capitalist warmongers.
i know man, me too.
Merkava IV turret on T-90 chassis? Disgusting perverts! lol jk xD
Sorry I kinda repeated myself there twice lol. Sorry for the long comment xD
Yes indeed, modern KE penetrators (APFSDS) are so strong, they never simply "bounce off" an angular armor plate, that's not possible, because they are simply too powerfull. They have such a poweful penetrating potential that they will always penetrate the first layers of the composite armor (the surface). That's why such thing as "shot-trap" doesn't exist on modern MBT's anymore. Because the point of modern composite armor is not to delfect/ricochet a APFSDS penetrator, but to slow the penetrating KE rod down so much, that it will lose its potential penetrating power and eventually stop completely, so that it will get stuck in the armor itself - but it won't fully penetrate and so the crew will not be harmed. Whether a composite armor "works" (as it is intended) or not depends on many different factors, but that's another story to be told. But the fact remains, that a APFSDS penetrator will never bounce off an angulare armor. It will always penetrate the first layer and if the armor works as it is intended, then the penetrator gets stuck in the armor and it won't go any further. So that the crew will not be harmed and the tank is not destroyer and it is still operational. But as to how much it penetrates into the armor depends on the individual armor applique itself. Sure, the tank will be damaged to some degree, but that can be repaired after the battle in a few hours. It is at least much cheaper to only repair a part of the tank, than to built another one entirely from scratch again.
me neither :o
The british Challenger 2 MBT is a copy of the Russian post-war tank IS-7.
The T-90 is much more in the need of some major upgrades, as it is far behind, and more outdated than the M1 Abrams, or any other western MBT for that matter. Since after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russian tanks have not been modernized to modern standards. Unlike western MBT's which have continuously been upgraded and redesigned throughout the last years.
The T-90 has the worst protection, because it still uses the outdated Kontakt-5 ERA from the 1980's, which is outdated by now. It may have been very effective back in the 80's, but it's insufficient for today's protection standards. Now, the M829A3 and DM53 (used by the Abrams and Leopard) are both able to penetrate the Kontakt-5 ERA (and of course the basic armor of the tank). In fact, even the earlier M829A2 from the early 90's was already credited of being able to penetrate the K-5)
On top of this, the 125mm gun that is used by all Russian tanks, has not received any upgrades or any new tank rounds capable of penetrating the front armor of the Leopard 2A6 or the M1A2 SEP. At least not the turret front. Maybe it could penetrate the lower hull front of the western MBT's, at close range, but I'll leave this open to debate.
Although the Russians did come up with a few new prototypes recently, such as the T-95 (with an impressive 152mm gun), or the T-90AM presented in 2011, which has the new developed Relikt ERA armor. But neither of them have entered service yet, and probably will remain as such for the next few years.
lol nice, is that a E-100 twin barreled flak tank "Krokodil" with twin 88mm guns that I spot in the upper right corner?
i know, but MBT's are the modern working horse of the Armed Forces today, hence the reference..
Is there a way that you could add the prototype tanks such as Maus, KV-3, T29 and T-95 from the mod FHSW (Forgotten hope Secret Weapons)?
Because the FHSW mod doesn't work with CO-OP bot support, so if you could add those tanks, that would be very nice.
You don't say!
All I'm askinng for is one thing: Could you please at least import the Noah Battleship from the game Nexus? This is the only ship I care about, I don't care about all the other Nexus ships. Only the Noah Battleship is important to me, because it is my favorite ship of all time. It really means everything to me. If you could add only this one ship to your mod, that would be super awesome and I'd be very satisfied! if it isn't too much work for you that is... but it would definitely be worth your effort. And don't worry about not having the permission, Nexus is dead game since more than 8 years, they won't complain. Trust me. You are totally free to use their models. It's only up to you my friend...
I really like the idea of making a strategy genre game out of the models from W.o.T.
Some of the prototype tanks deserve more recognition in other games too.
But it does.
this comment was totally uncalled for. the person you responded to wasn't even talking about the L2.
Nope, both the m5 and M4 would most porbably lose in a head-to-head fight against the Hetzer. Maybe the hetzer isn't facing it YET in this photo, but it is just about to turn.
The stuart's tiny 37mm gun can not penetrate the Hetzer's front armor, which is about 100-110mm effective because of good slope. Neither can the Sherman penetrate it with its short 75mm gun which penetrates only like 80mm with standard APBC ammo. Although the Hetzer has only 50mm thin armor plating but it's sloped @60° and that doubles the effect.
The M4 or M5 typically can't destroy it from the front. On the other hand, the hetzer's 75mm gun could theoretically penetrate both American tanks from over 1,100m still...
tl;dr Stuart and Sherman are pretty much screwed. :P (except if they out flank the hetzer, then he will be screwed)
Read again, I didn't say it has 100mm thick armor plating, I said the armor is about 100-110mm EFEFCTIVE because it is angled at 60°.
Can you do the math? 50mm armor plate at 60° angle = 100mm LOS.
Oh noes he made me look bad on the internet, i'm gonna go cry in the corner now :P
astounding how could I possibly have missed the details during my analysis back then... anyway, i give you +1. Gj
What is your point? Of course this is the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment (Cyclops Squadron) that was ambushed in the town "Az Zubayr" which is near Basra. This drawing just shows the figh. So what exactly are you trying to disprove?
And we know that not a single CHR2 was ever "destroyed" by enemy fire. we never claimed otherwise. However we only discussed about that one CHR2 that was penetrated through the lower front armor in al-Amarah. That's all.
So once gain, I don't see your point. What are you trying to dispriove here? The CHR2 probably has got the most successful combat history of any other modern MBTs so far.
hmmm. Are you sure? This is not to be confused with the other image here
Same battle - but different images ;)
nope. Chr1 and Chieftain are two whole different tanks. For example, it's more like Tiger I to Tiger II. Or Pz III to Pz IV. Also different tank types with new shaped body/turret.
and by "modern armor" i meant regular composite armor design. Other armor types like Reactive armor works differently again.
If the Leopard 2 had an obvious shot-trap like this, do you not think they would have noticed and fixed this problem by now? Do you seriously think it would be one of the world's best selling MBT if it had such an obvious shot-trap? Please think a little and use your logic before making such arguments.
people who still speak of these shot-traps tend to make their conclusions from WW2 era tanks, not realizing the differences in both armor and penetrator tech between now and then. People like that are lacking or missing GREAT amount of newest informations of modern tank warfare. Modern APFSDS rounds, as a general rule, don't deflect like in WW2.
Modern long-rod kinetic energy penetrators (APFSDS) behave in a different way than old traditional solid shot armour-piercing rounds used in WW2.
Modern penetrators are so powerful in penetrating capabilities nowadays, they don't just "bounce off the armor and leave a scratch on it" they will now always penetrate in the first place and "go inside the armor package" anyway, they can not be stopped from penetrating the first layers. BUT, modern armor is designed to stop it from reaching the base armor. That's how it works today.
That's why the Leopard 2A5/ A6 with edge-shaped turret front does not form a shot-trap since it doesn't deflect the penetrators outwards to hit the hull or turret ring.
lol I was joking when I said it's "1980 ish". Sure, having no blowout panels is a drawback but it's still one of the TOP 5 best protected MBTs today. And there already are solutions available to increase protection against mentioned threats.
Best solution would be APS (Activ protection System) working both in Soft and Hard Kill way, which will be very effective to defeat HEATs, APFSDS, ATGMs and even top attacks from high trajectory like Javelin or EFP warheads from artillery ammunition like "BONUS".
Depends on the right circumstances, crew training, and a little bit of Luck. Since they can all destory each other, it wins the crew who detects the enemy first and makes the hit. I know you didn't seriously ask for a debate, i'm just rolling with your comment :) Re-post all the comments!
Seriously, i don't understand why they don't upgrade CHr2 with cased ammo and "blow-out panels" like the Leopard and M1 have. (the panels that would blow out forcing the blast upwards instead of towards the crew compartment). Even if the ammo is seperated but putting it with the crew exposed is dangerous.
Modern Western MBTs without blowout panels is so 1980-ish.
i don't get it. are you asking for the source?
i edited their faces out of the photos. why does it matter so much? the picture isn't about the soldiers anyway, it's about the tank.
For the Germanz it sure is, since they were outnumbered like 3:1, 5:1, they had to compensate with something, be it better quality/armor protection etc. If they lost a tank, they couldn't replace it so easilly like the Americans did with the mass produced Sherman.
And honestly, by this time (44/45) the panther's armor wasn't that good anymore. Even a T34-85 or Sherman 76w could already penetrate the front armor at 600-800 m distance, let alone the side armor at 2km+ o.O
Tiger II was the only "well" armored tank at this time :/ and that's exactly the tank that broke down the most
lol, i even wrote this line "should NOT be compared" at the end. ^^
Yes, the design of ARL44 was obsolete indeed, still doesn't change the fact that it was built after the war = post-war tank. That's the point. And yes, Tiger > everything else.
I think everything has been said now. Let us now close this discussion, shall we? :)
dl;dr you repeated my comment in a more detailed way ;)
I just wanted to add some things, the ARL 44 has actually 120mm front armor plate, sloped at 45° = it's almost 180mm effective... strong enough to resist the old 88 gun of the Tiger I. ;)
And the tiger's side "protection" really isn't any better, let's be honest, what is it gonna stop exactly? 80mm is still a joke :P
I prefer the Russian IS-4 and IS-7 heavy prototypes which had both 170-200mm effective protection from the sides and even more from the front... but then again these tanks were built two years after WW2 and should not be compared to the Tigers.
since it's a post-war tank, of course it outclasses the Tiger I, nothing to be proud there, even the IS-2 outclassed him in 1944 already.
the Tiger II on the other hand is still Boss. ;)
Just modular composite armor, no era.
no, no, don't be fooled by the stubby gun, it fires rockets.
but we do already have something like this in WOT, it's called T54 and Type-59.
Only USSR driver can have these main battle tanks tough :(
maybe, if the commander is lucky, he manages to quickly close the hatch, and the missile hits one of the ERA tiles on the turret roof, which forces the explosion away from the tank and the crew may survives...
Sorry i'm late, but anyway...
any Russian built tank with the 125mm gun and newest ammunition can indeed destroy a regular Leopard 2, Challenger 2 or M1A2 from the sides or rear, as they have only 200-300mm RHA protection against KE at these points.
Modern Russian rounds such as the 3BK21B and 3BM44M can penetrate 600-650-750 mm RHA equivalency already. check this out
But there are some promising modernizations and upgrades for additional side protection and more survivability, such as the Leopard 2a7+, Leopard REVOLUTION and the Turkish NEXT GENERATION add-on package, which provides about ~600mm LOS at the turret sides.
A regular T-80, T-90 or T-90A/S (on T-72 basis) has most vulnerability at the rear-sides, only like 100mm steel armor plates which can be penetrated by even 25mm & 30mm auto cannons in AFVs.
Henschel prototype with the Vorpanzer (frontal shield)
yes of course, but it's just what you would expect from German enginnering :) all of their military stuff looks cool
the life of soldiers is invaluable! as long as the APC protects the soldiers the money is definitely worth spent
because tanks ! :D
duh, i was joking :)
That's because the Leopard family MBT is known to be one of, if not, THE best and most suiltable tank in the western world for many decades, thus most European countries use it.
It's not like Eastern countries have totally different tank designs either...
Challenger, Leopard, Abrams, Leclerc = they have all whole different shaped hull and turret design. Compared to most Eastern countries who use the T72 as basis = same hull and turret design only with a few different upgrades....
Bollocks. All it shows are common things which are in use with most MBTs today, like thermal imaging camera, remoted machine guns and reactive armor. These informations won't help the enemy to study the tank's weakness. How would it?...
It's not like you wouldn't notice the changes on the tank with your own eyes anyway. That it has a rear grill and reactive armor is visible how would they make a big secret of it?
do a moskau roll :) [dschingis khan reference]
meh, i wouldn't say it is THE most beautiful fighter aircraft ever (that would be the SU-35bm for me), because the F22 is a way too simple and boring looking design. But for sure a nice plane :)
photoshopped leoaprd 2a1 (prototype)
tank hunters actually.
Interesting. Thanks for claring it up. I really thought it was from a battle in Afghanistan, do you know the name of that movie?
yay i think in training it's fun, but in real combat when under heavy AA fire and enemy infantry shooting at your chute it's not so joyful anymore :)
ah, damnit, damnit. i see. your picture has a different file name thou. not surprising, this image was posted on /k/ in many threads...
Sorry, but this idea is retarded. The front area of a tank IS already best protected by thickest armor, it's not necessary to put the engine there. But the rear compartment needs the engine block much more, because this is the weakest part of a tank. that's why the entire engine block should be kept in the much weaker rear, so in case a projectile penetrates there, the engine is supposed to absurb most of the impact caused by the projectile and safe the crew's life.
Now that the engine has been removed from the weakest part, there is absolutely NOTHING to protect the crew when a penetration.
Yes, your post is correct. I was thinking of the wrong upgrade... The tank in this picture is indeed the Czechich T72M4. Thank you for reminding me.
Gosh there are too many upgrades for this tank, it's too easy to get confused with :)
Historical Military museum "Lenino-Snegiri", in Russia. And I have to admit, it is honestly one of the finest tank museums I have ever been to. I like the fact that they don't clean the tanks up alll the time, so they look a little rusty, but that's my fetish. i like when the tanks looks "used"
One of these pieces was even equipped with a KH-55 missile (which is usually used by the TU-122m), to blow the **** out of any surface targets such as aircraft carriers and other military ships.
@aidas2: well, actually the Russians solved this probloem shortly after the end of ww2, just by making the side and rear armor more sloped on the IS-3 and IS-7.
Did you know, that the IS-7 (1946) had BETTER armor at the flanks, than the King Tiger has at the FRONT? That's Amazing, don' you think? The IS-7 has 300mm LOS at the flanks, whereas the Tiger II had onlly ~85mm LOS at the flanks... and the Russians only achieved this by making the side armor sloped at 60° as well. The IS-3 had its side armor sloped at 60° too so it had about 180mm LOS at the flanks... It's so simple yet so effective!
Just imagine if the King Tiger (and all other German tanks) had its side armor sloped at 60° as well, (80mm @ 60° = 160mm LOS) because armor at 60 degrees doubles the Line of Sight throuhg the armor and gives +50% additional protection to the armor effectiveness...
With such good tank designs, the Germans maight could have defeated the Soviet army within weeks. But for some reason, German tank enginners never tought of this idea... idk why.
it's indeed COH. I wrote the phrase "brothers in arms" in the title field, because it looks like, one of the Knight's cross holder (the elite soldier in black suit) is holding his fallen Kammerad in his arms, after he has been hit by a bullet and is now injuried.
~ never leave a fallen comrade ~ ッ
hmm, which of the both tanks looks better, is for your individual taste. But technically seen, you cannot disagree that the Tigter II has a much better gun to fight against the Soviet heavy IS-series tank. Also, its "close-to-impenetrable" front armor gave him significant more protection. But even then, it was still too vulnerable from the fanks and rear, German tank engineers never solved this problem in WW2 :/
Laser guided anti-air and anti-tank missiles of course :D j/k
it's a smoke grenade launcher :-) you know, to make a smoke wall for cover
There were three TU-160s at the winning parade devoted to 65th anniversary of victory in the Great Patriotic war on May 9, 2010 in Moscow.
Well, T-90 is just a upgraded/modernized T-72 with new Contact-5 (ERA) and Shtora Active Protection System.
It was renamed to T-90, because after the huge tank battle in Iraq 1991 (Operation Desert Storm) The T-72 got very bad reputation (because so many of them have been massacred and slaughtered by the M1's).
And the Russians feared they'd lose customers so they changed its name to T-90. Also, please don't call the T-72 crappy. it was in fact the world's best tank, when it entered service with the Soviet army in the 1970's. but it had no chance against the much more modern M1A1 Abrams, unequal fight.
this picture is already containing in the image gallery of this group
it IS the front side actually :D
bawksy?..my queen? in the army? Must follow!
hey bud, i hope you didn't mind my whining on yout pictures you posted in Tank Lovers Group, it's just reasonable you didn't browse the whole entire image gallery to chack out if the picture you wanted to upload, whether has been uploaded already, or not. there's just too many images posted to the group by this time, i understand that nobody would go through the entire gallery just to make sure it's not gonna be a repost... even if my comemnts sounded mean, i wasn't :) well, enjoy your day~
even better i postetd it in this group!
Of course, the only ships you uploaded are Russian.
DUDE, your 4th repost now in a row
repost, and in very bad quality ...
haha, Nope. Although they look both quite similar in design, but at least you can tell from the turret it's not a IS-6.
the IS-4's turret is a little more bulky and massive. Also, note the unique driver's hatch on the front glacis. A IS-6 doesn't have it like that.
Me and my friend we are just gathering info's, photographs and other possible and usefull sources to make reliabale (as best and as close to reality as possible) estimation levels of modern MBT's armor thickness.
Everyone else interested in this is free to read and learn from it, why shouldn't I share it with you guys?
yet all the AA's couldn't prevent it from sinking.... i think 360 aircrafts at once is just too hardcore :|
fffs, made in China my A... errm nvm. You know that the film director (Roland Emmerich) of the movie "2012" is German?...
And btw, the ship's name is only ARK. The "Noah's Ark" is from the holy bible lol
This is a KV-1s and not IS-2
I will never understand why people argue which is the best tank. "Yeah My weapons is better" - "Not ture *******, my weapons are better" That's just so childish. As long as a weapon can kill, I think it's effective. And yes Panzert, the Merkava 4 indeed is one of the best protected tanks in the world, i can tell by the 1,10m thick armor block on the turret which absorbs every hit like a sponge! Not to forget the Israelis are very advanced in developing APS that makes the tank close to invulnerable. And no worries, you don't have to be a fanboy to make suggestive posts. :)
I have seen the official armor layout of most MBTs and one thing is for sure, none of them is invincible. They are ALL vulnerable from the sides and rear, only good protected at the front...so whatever.
What do you mean by that? It's just stunning to me how tank design has not changed that much in the 40 years between them, and yet the total effectiveness (of armor, speed & gun) is still 4 times better, only by achieving new armor technology and better computerized fire control systems etc. Who knows what will be next in 40 years? Perhaps invisible tanks? Nano armor that is able to health/repair itself? Guns fire high-energy ionized Plasma shells that can cut through even the thickest armor?
And I think Germany still makes the BEST tanks in the world but that's only my opinion. They always did and always will.
inb4 raging fanboy shitstorm because my opinion is "wrong" lol
@SlayerX3, exactly my thoughts
Chassis & gun - CHR2
Turret: Merkava + M1
@jrgl_cuchallain but it proves that even the best protected tanks are still vulnerable to modern anti-tank threats, unless they have a force field (shild) or APS. The CHR2 may performed very well against outdated cold-war weapons (RPG-7), just as good as the M1 Abrams performaed very well against outdated T-72 during Operation Desert Storm in the Gulf War 91... but they aren't battleproven by fighting outdated weapons. Every Western MBT (Leclerc, Leo2) could have done the same. Anyway, when they face new weapons from today (RPG-29 or T90, T80U) they can be destroyed just as easily too. The insurgents know the weakspot now: Simply use tandem warhead that has about 700mm penetration performance, aim at lower front plate = armor will most likely be penetrated. And I have posted a picture once here to the group, that mentions the RPG-29 can also penetrate the T-90 front armor even with Kontakt-5!
But on the other hand, @aidas2, it's a well known fact that the floor armor plate is the weakest part of every MBT, not only CHR2. And all modern MBTs are very vulnerable from the sides just as well. The standard M1 Abrams could even be penetrated by RPG-7s, which the CHR2 could withstand!...
yay F-14 Tomcat in Mange/Anime style!
I think if the Germans would have focused more on these advanced things like Type XXI electric submarine and Me262, instead of wasting time and resources on Ratte and Maus projects, our history would have changed in a not so good way - Fortunately, they didn't.
Many M4 Sherman tanks during WW2 were marked with a big white star symbol directly over the Ammo Racks where the ammunition was housed, soon the Germans found out that always when they hit this spot the tank was blown up and exploded and burnt out. The Germans used this as a Aiming Point because it would usually blow up the ammunition, that's also why so many Shermans caught fire after the first hit. for this reason the star symbol was later removed from most Sherman tanks within the last war months xD
Not at all. You need glasses? The MC75 is just an enlargered version built on the MC80 vessel http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/MonCalCruiser2.jpg
Nothing of the MC75 design has any similarity to the Wraith starship
against bots... <.<
Now let's go on a online rampage! >:D
the T54 is too big, the size of the IS-7 is aboout right...
what you mean is the T44
Awwww man yeah it sadly missed in this collection :( dayyyym just imagine the Centurion next to the Conqueror and it would be the ultimate epic group photo of Western Post War Heavy tanks.
lol why would anyone even dicuss which of them is better than the other, since they both could penetrate and single-shot kill EVERY armored vehicle at this time. the L/71 can penetrate 14mm MORE armor, but therefore the 128mm calibre would be better to fight heavy or BIG tanks as there would be more shrapnels that explode inside the tank, insuring more damage to the mechanics and devices.
I know that's where I have it from^^
I also wanted to post the T10m art picture...but didn't
Yep. For the beginners, it is the same gun as used by the Panther tank. 2nd most powerful German anti tank gun that was fielded, after the legendary 8,8cm kwk43 L/71 from the King Tiger.
Yup, according to the document that I have all them T-100s are equipped with the 130mm Naval B-13 gun.
Panzer IV has only 50mm armor
ALso, according to the video result, the T34 scores 100% for firepower and armor protection even better than the Pan ther ranking Derp.
Yep, that's right. ESPECIALLY the Puma was more of an IFV than any other recon, since it got a weapon powerful enough to deal with most allied tanks, even at large distances, thus able to give infantry good fire support if needed. Compare this to the old Sd.Kfz. 232 and 233, they had no anti tank gun at all and were completely helpless when attacked by a tank.. The Puma at least could protect itself
blitzfire5, But only with airplanes the USA can not occupy territory, so they are still dependent on ground forces, my guess was that if the Allied supply lifeline was cut they would not receive any supply from the French coasts anymore. Haha you don't need to tell me that it was close to impossible for the Germans to change the war, I just tried to figure our WHAT exactly the Ratte could be used for :P
It was a piece of **** that's why the German Generals didn't allow it for service, it was only a obnoxious fantasy of a austrian tyrant named Hitler
and Yes, Me262 made the P51 its b*tch any day ;)
Hmm, sure? only 100 Me262s are accounted for the destruction of over 510 Allied planes. And most of the Me262s were only destroyed while take-off because then they were most vulnerable. My personal estimate is that only about 30 or 40 of them were ever shot down in the air. And the E-50 E-75s were also way ahead over Allied tanks, and I really mean WAY AHEAD (auto loader system, night scope devices, new range altitude optics etc). We can be Glad that the War ended early enough or the outcome maybe had been changed... Just thinking about that makes my hackles raise.
I'd rather say the front armor part reminds me of the M103 Heavy tank just much better slopeness. Afterall it's an American tank project if I'm right.
Yes, overzised target that cannot be penetrated by any anti tank guns anyway. While the Allieds are just wasting their ammunition on targeting that monster, but doing no damage at all because they lack sufficient guns, the fast E-50 & E-75 tanks that were hiding/covering behind the Ratte are quickly rushing forwarth and spreading out over the battlefield like a fast growing virus and take out the Allied tanks which are still shocked by that huge giant machine. Meanwhile the big 280mm artillery naval cannons give heavy firesupport, which equals a entire Russian artillery battalion. Me262s and Horten Ho XVIII as interceptors are giving air support to protect it against bombers and other low flying ground attcking planes, while the Arado 234 turbojet bombers are sent to the French coast to attack the landing ships at the beaches to cut through Allied reinforcement lifeline.
Oh boi, it's THIS again.. let us all support the mighty bear spam here we go!
It was very impressive indeed for the time it was developed but it could penetrate the Tiger from 1km distance already because the Tiger had 100mm vertical front armor on the hull. And the Panther had only 110mm effective armor thickness (horizontal distance through the front armor) so it could also kill the Panther from 1km distance already ;)
Errm.. Geoffrey Pyke yes ;) but it sounds almost that way you have just spelled out lol
ffffss they're just another easy targets for F22's missile system! Defesanet.com.br
I dunno, looked like ww1 to me. Hey I can be mistaken too... sometimes :p
haha yes it looks like the shield deflects or absorbs the scanner but in fact the scanner can just go through the shield. Img121.imageshack.us :P
kinda repost Moddb.com :P
Hello Phenixtri (: First of all, AFVs or APCs are not designed to fight against MBTs. Even if they have ATGMs (anti tank missiles) but that's only for defense. They are (as you have already pointed in your statement) mainly made to carry infantry to the battlefield and if needed to give fire support to the infantry. Unfortunately, no APC or IFV can really be protected well enough to resist modern tank guns. Have you ever seen how many mm RHA a modern tank gun can penetrate?
Take a look at this Moddb.com
As you can see, most tank guns today can penetrate over 600-700mm RHA armor, it is almost impossible to protect a light IFV against such powerful armaments. Only Main Battle Tanks themselves at 40-60 tons heaviness can be protected well enougn to resist such powerful guns. Although the German Puma APC comes the closest to the protection levels of a MBT. The Puma APC has the same modular armor protection as the Leoaprd 2A5/6 MBT. But I doubt that even the Puma could resist modern tank guns... they are just too powerful.
Nevertheless, APCs & IFVs are very good in their role, and the U.S. EFV can do the same job as every other APC can do, I am sure about that :)
Wow, this looks impressively good. Hope to see more of your models soon (:
yes this really looked very modern of its time, it was the first turbo jet powered flying wing in the world. Plus the uniqe shaped body delivered a little stealth technology and made it invisible against some outdated radars so it was at some degrees the first man made stealth aircraft in the world.
Take a look at the image filename, it says it. Yup :)
that's btw not the way I think personally, i don't mind if they are made to kill people as long as they look beautiful :P but there are many hippis out there who think this way.
well, it's a killing machine made to kill people, not for peace. but i love its look anyway.
Nope, this is the Leopard 2A7 already ;-)
Yes, M41 155 mm howitzer in late 1944/45
Yes, a longer gun was obligatory needed to provide better penetration capabilities for piercing through even the thickest armor. Especially the Soviet heavy tank series IS-4/IS-7 had very good armor protection. The longer the gun barrel, the higher the muzzle velocity, the more powerful the armor piercing capabilities. So it could effectively defeat every armor without problems. ;)
"Please don't call it tank, it sounds so derogatory. This is a PANZER. drama drama
Just revenging for Moddb.com <.<
is it you "ubinhad"? a guy with this username also comments the same thing on my photos at flickr.com "Henschel turret, Porsche turret...."
what is the point of this lol :)
thanks for notifying..
if it needs to long to load the full sized picture, just right click on "view original" and choose "open a new window " if you browse firefox.
Maybe too lazy? nah. I am not exactly sure. Might be the reason there were no original spare parts left? Afterall this is the early Porsche–suspension variant (considreing all other Jagdtigers were scrapped).
it's only wooden right?
Of course the sides and rear is the most vulnerable section of the tank overall, but this example shows ony the most vulnerable parts of the FRONT armor on the turret :)
Orange131326, sorry, i meant of course OOORAHHH. i will change that immediate.
and don't believe the evil propaganda news they're just making a bad picture of the brave American troops who risk their lifes to save peace on earth.
yes, the a-10 is also a very effective weapon to fight the evil terrorism! SEMPER FI my brothers. God bless our troops OOORAH!
what u mean? they're just doing their jobs to make sure for PEACE. God bless America! OORRAAAHH
no we must fight terrorism or there will be never peace in the world.
lol :D dammo i hate typos. dunno how this could happen. >.<
i know but it looks so much cooler in W.o.T idk why thou :/
note: this picture is very old and was made BEFORE the developers started to create the the game World of Tanks. These models shown here are actually from the game Order of War. This screenshot is photoshopped, and was made to display an illusion of how world of tanks could look like. tbh i like it this way better :P the maps in this picture have better visuals and the ambience is much greater too. kinda.
is zhis ze Scharnhorst battlekruizer klass?
i kno rite, i'm like so ****** badass rofl
wth? realistic tank gaming ain't that lame too dude, why the hell would you even possible thing like this? probably because you have never palyed a good realistic ww2 game ever before, right? And you think there are no campers in W.o.T? OH MY GAH i can sing you a song of this, the servers are full of them, finding the nearest bush and sitting in forest/bushes and don't move one inch from their position. But this is just part of tactics and usually wins. Once I took up a defensive position with my IS-7 on Karelia, at the right flank, when the enemy team advanced to my position I sniped the first 3 incoming tanks to death, and our artillery gave me fire support destroyng the other tanks, while the rest of my team defended our base (which is very important if you don't want to lose). I'm not saying the team should always CAMP but still it's a effective strategy.
Gnostic, because it's an israeli tank. Got the joke? No? Me neither.
GriffinZ, die Panzer ist kaputt lol
This is NOT the M1A2 SEP. This is only the starndard version of the old M1A2 Abrams. The upgraded SEP version has additional armor package on the turret, estimated to be up to 800-900mm against KE.
Why all this hatred against germans ? <:(
why so much anti-German ComeradeStalin ? :(
u mean the fail apc? yes
you just jelly cuz i so much cooller than you :D hurrr
I was having a duell with him at long range shooting before, when we were fighting in the streets (see here Moddb.com). But when he and his team mates were heavily damaged with only 5-10% HP left they all tried to escape from me, but because my ИС-7 is so fast (50 km/h on road) I could reach him and finish him off. Only his other team mates could escape from me and so I made only 1 kill before the game ended ;(
What you mean is the E-50. There is Panther 2 and E-50, which are both different tanks. However this Panther type currently in closed beta is the Panther II prototype, but soon the E-50 will be added with all other E-series tanks ;)
Very massive and solide I guess? LoL just kidding, Hull front armor 150mm at a very low and high angle of inclination, Turret Cast variable thickness from 94 up to 210mm. The thickness of the gun mantlet even reached 350 mm!
But that's all no problem for further German post war tanks like E-75 or E-100 :P Theey would have guns with 150-170mm calibre size o.O
yeah but only if the crew is not killed my Sniper and Machien guns before, this APC has only 14mm armor and can be penetrated by even small fire arms. Only 7.62mm rounds are capable to make swiss cheese of it...
sry mate but facts are facts. They should have better bought the Swedish CV90-120 instead...
Maybe it's because of the angle from where we're looking at this tank plus it has turned the turret 170° to the right side which gives it additinal badas look and we can clearly see the armor thickness of the Kontakt-5 ERA on turret front also the pictue has a very good and sarp resolution so we can see all the nice details.
weird, this looks like NFS U2 o.O
sh-t i sorry :(
It's World of Tanks (currently closed beta only). It's not published yet, but it will be released for the open beta in a few months. Maybe there are still a few free keys available if anyone is interested in it..
Thank you, Vader91 (:
that's because this picture was recolored. It was actually only black and white before, without any colors.
hey calm down bro. I did not mean AMAP_APS which is the Active Protection System. I was only talking about AMAP (Advanced Modular Armor Protection) which is the modular designed armour add-on package on the tank's turret. And it seems to be deeply influenced/derived from the Merkava 4's turret design (the thick add-on armour blocks on the front and sides of the turret). The T-95 is the first Russian tank in history that uses this kind of AMAP design which is commonly used by Western country's tanks. And no, Russians did not invent sloped armor, LOL that is ridiculous. Many french tanks did already have "sloped armour" BEFORE the Russians started to build their own tanks.
They wanted to buy Leo 2s in the first place. Unfortunately German Government at first refused to sell them but later in 2005 they made a new deal again and Germany then sold 298 ex-German Leopard 2A4s to Turkey, which are still in use with the turkish army til today.
And I'm sure the Leopard 2A4 will remain Turkey's MBT for the next few years, since the first prorotype of the MİTÜP Altay tank is NOT even built or tested yet lol.
Hey guys i have a question, looks like the ammunition box is open at the sides. Seems like you could throw a grenade in it and...BOOOOM munition would explode and rip the turret apart. Or am i wrong?
It means (Peace Support Operations) which is designed specially for urban warfare.
Oh C'mon )= don't be that pessimistic. Have you never seen a real cowboy movie? these guys are crazzy sharp shooters and can aim very precise with their .45 revolver. They can shoot down apples from a tree 50 meters away with the first bullet. So of course he can hit the tank's most vulnerable soft spot. For example if he fires the first bullet to the tank's cannon tube and the bulled goes trhoguh the gun it may hit the ammunition and causes a huge explosion inside = tank dead. (=
sweet (: will it stand a chance against my lego Panzer?
i posted this here instead of tank lover group. i think it is more related to AA lover group am i doing rite.
nahh... who shots first wins. old cowboy rules. i bet the cowboy has better reflex than the tank :) He who laughs last, laughs loudest.
GEEESH, yes OF COURSE the damn picture is a shop, APPARENTLY! But it is related to a real article about the british 'cloaking device'. The British Military itself stated in 2007 that they have invented a system that makes their tanks invisible to the human eye. No joke!
This picture only shows what the British cloaking device might look like if it were applied to an Israeli tank...
Mr. obvious. Of course the pic is fake. But the article in the description box is real. I'm not even kidding, Seriously. Thanks to British technology, in 2012 the military may be able to see you, but you may not be able to see them lmao.
Just google for it. Foxnews.com
BAWWWWWW, sorry bro :o didn't mean to be that rude. pls no cry.
but internet is serious business >:o now take your fail with you. and gtfo.
hehe just kidding, take it easy bro :) you have been trolled. and nice lego tank keep up the sweet work, you 'll get better with time.
obvious shop is obvious
pic is legit.
you're a failhole. (:
it IS a upgraded L2A6 with greater armour protection and stuff..
this camouflage.. it's so unique! Looks sooooo goood man.
Finally, the first picture since months that was NOT posted by me! Uhm...but my lego tank looks cooler sry^^ Moddb.com
your lego tank is ugly^^ and wtf is wrong with the treads, orange lol? and the turret isn't even proper shaped at all :P also the whole turret should be placed backwards. just a little more to the back. hurrrr
Haters gonna hate
So f*cking true man! We shouldn't produce thousands of them for no reason so they can be wasted in the dust and rust away.... we should use our weapons instead in real combat. Hey Lebanon, i'm about to invade you now. Rest of the world: Wanna join so we can start a new World war? Who's with me? come and join the party we have cookies also... it's no lie i promise
zoom in and out for dramatic purpose!! zumg
PS. Notice the kill rings on the gun tube of his King Tiger.... very impressive, huh?
Nope, it is not just thick and heavy steel plates like they used in the T-72B, but it is a whole new generation of advanced 4th generation composite armor, making use of nano-ceramics and modern steel technology.
For comparison, the Challenger 2 and all other MBTs have still only 3rd generation of Composite armour. ;)
just a tactical RV type amphibious vehicle.
just going for a walk, breathing fresh air, enjoying beautiful nature when suddenly... holy **** is that a ******* tank?
just going for a walk, breathing fresh air, enjoying the beutiful nature when suddenly....
A very beautiful tank. sexy shapes and edges....
Sherman prototype with M36 turret and 90mm gun.
Wait..what? no it's not. It's a real tank wtf are you talking about lmao.
Nobody said they destroyed ALL M1's themselves. Learn to read.
but A LOT M1 Abrams tanks were destroyed by friendly fire after they were disabled and the crew abandoned it. There were more M1's being destroyed by friendly fire than enemy.
T-90 is a very sexy tank imho
so is every ww2 tank.
yes, that's true, it really does. click this picture here.
notice the lower nose area (front armor on the chassis) which is curved/wavy like on the Leo2.
@mrparty i wonder why do people ALWAYS have to bring the jagdpanther in this topic when it comes to the Jagdtiger? Just because someone said IT IS A NICE ART. Leave the Jagdpanther out of this thread, of course it was a much better tank destroyer, but nobody argued about this. he just praised the good art work GOD DAMNIT.
that's not a sturmtiger duh, it's a Brummbär or Sturmpanzer IV.
GOD, i'm getting sick of this sh*!. seriously, Company of Heroes DID NOT invent the upgrade menu. it is only one of thousand other games that uses this feature. maybe because COH is one of the most popular RTS game today, many ppl (most little kids) compare this to other games. i have played many other RTS games which included features like an upgrade menu (the same like this one which you can see in this picture) long time before COH was released. so please, STFU thanks.
WOW nice work guyse and good edditing! looks really great! the Elefant tank destroyed was also armed with the very powerful and high velocity 8,8 cm KwK L43 gun from the King Tiger right? IRL it could kill any allied tanks at range of 3,000 meters very accurate and precise.. too bad though this is only a unrealistic and bad balanced strategy game in which german tanks lost advantages/superiority in gun range, firepower and armour protection :(