I was practicing my Sith lightening last night setting my neighbor's roof on fire during a heavy rain when it suddenly occurred to me that the Force is in a sense nothing more than an energy form of mortar. If the universe can be viewed in it's timeless essence... Alpha and Omega existing simultaneously on multiple planes then the Force is the mortar holding the building blocks of the past, present and shifting future together. With an insight into the force pre-cognizance is achievable as one able to tap into the energy in their present location would thus be able to view reality from other planes as the entire energy structure is a single entity. This almost certainly supports the Sith teaching that there is no light or dark side of the Force... there is only the Force and those who are willing to harness it's power and use it for themselves or those who instead allow themselves to be manipulated, led and used by that power. This fatal flaw in Jedi philosophy of allowing ones self to be dictated to by the force almost certainly exemplifies the weakness of the order as a whole and explains why the Sith despite their being the less socially acceptable order, thus less plentiful and without the resources available to the Jedi have consistently managed to defeat and dominate the Galaxy from a Force user's stand point. The Jedi view pre-cognizance as a potential future to be studied and learned from as though it were something viewed through transparisteel. The Sith recognize that Pre-cognizance as a glimpse into an alternate reality that can be used and manipulated in order to serve their will. In much the same way a Jedi wields their own power allowing the force to simply guide it or enhance it while the Sith recognize that the power of the Force is vastly stronger than that of any individual thus that power is harnessed and converted into the very weapons of the Sith arsenal to be unleashed on their enemies.
So when reference is made to the "Dark Side", to those who understand it's essence this simply refers to the school of thought that chooses to use the Force, not to some mis-conceived notion of a malicious partition within the force. So my friends, use the power at your disposal and embrace the wisdom of the Sith... There can be no destiny as long as one has the power to change it.
Darth^Xerstorung
The Force
Posted by Darth^Xerstorung on
Power consumes you the more you use it my friend ;)The Jedi philosophy has indeed it's faults and weaknesses. It is true that we let others guide and to a certain degree control how it is put to use, for the good of the galaxy, but we are the concious of those who we have plegded out loyalty. And therefor we can refuse to do what they want us to do. We are no puppets of the Republic. An example of this is the Mandalorien wars, where the Jedi Council forbid all Jedi to help the Republic. The wise decision was proved when it corrupted some of the Jedi that ignored the Councils orders. I believe we it Revan and Malak if I'm not mistaken. The Sith may hold great power, but again and again, the power end up cunsuming the conscience with the need for more and more power. Then it comes to that certain point when the Sith turn on each other and all that have been fought so hard over, is reduced to a pointless struggle for power and the Sith is forced back into hiding because of their own arrogance.
Check ;) - Chess joke in case you didn't get it ;D
Valid points. Except for the Mandolorian Wars reference. If the Jedi Council had agreed to help, they would have easily stopped Revan from being corrupted and corrupting the other Jedi.
Jedi=Sith. That is fact. We both control our Empires. Yours is just named "The Republic". An exmaple of this is when Sidious, then Chancellor Palpatine, is forced to give up Emergency powers when the War ends, otherwise he is removed from office. The Jedi should not have any jurisdiction over the Republic, they are merely "allies". Allies don`t tell other allies what to do. Therefore it would be like the Sith demanding that the Empire they control give them more power. The only difference is you don`t admit it.
Your "Sith will fight over power" ect. is kinda invalid since the "Rule of Two" was put in to sort that out. Another example of how we overcome that small fault (>.<) is this new Order of Sith, a loyal Order who follows the Council (unless the Council says something stupid like "lets destroy Korriban" lol).
Check :P
The Jedi are not puppets of the Republic (although the Republic has maintained a degree of control over the Order historically), but the Jedi are Puppets of the Force which was the essence of my statement. To serve the Force is to serve power itself which in my opinion is to already be "consumed" by said power. To wield power one has already exhibited a control of it and under the philosophies of the Dark Side with sufficient control one could use their own physical decay to become one with the power in the present realm, in essence staving off consumption in lieu of death and in favor of greater control. Ideally a powerful Sith could create a bond with the Force in which one feeds off the other in a continuous cycle allowing one to maintain youth and strength well into their years.
It's true that their fall might have been prevented if the Council had intervened in the Mandalorian wars, but the future is unpredictable. It could have turned out much worse. "Allies" can be interpreted differently. The relation between the Jedi and the Republic is an understanding. The Jedi serve the Republic so we have oversight - as I stated "For the good of the galaxy" - and we are the Republics conscience in return. The SITH is our juristiction, not the Mandalorians. Besides, had it not been discovered that he was a Sith Lord, he might have been asked by the Senate to give up his powers anyway. The Republics wars with others, such as the Mandalorians are not why the Jedi serve the Republic. How can we claim to be the protecters of the light and then help the Republic when it choose not to do the right thing? The Mandaloriens are just looking for a fight and sometimes, so are the Republic. It's unfortunate that we cannot always convince the Reoublic to do the right thing, but it doesn't mean we have to help them in their wrongdoings.
The "Rule of Two" is not the only Sith philosophy out there in praxis. (The Sith Empire here on ModDB does not follow that, you have your own system.)
Check!
I already said we had our own system to get rid of infighting...
If the Repbulic had not of retaliated agaisnt the Mandolorians, 2 things would of happaned:
The Destruction of the Republic itself, or near obliberation. You think the Republic would just stand their, watching the Mandolorians grow in numbers, strenght and skill?
Mass rebellions agaisnt the Republic and systems leaving the Republic cause they do nothing to those they swore to protect.
You, Jedi, swore to protect the Republic ("Guardians of the Republic") yet you stood their and watched them. You say you did that to stop the Sith, yet the Sith rose anyway. It seems the Jedi predicted the futur and tried to stop it, but in doing so they changed the actual futur into the one they predicted.
The Jedi serve the Republic??? No... Otherwise the Jedi wouldn`t of been "Generals". They would of been soldiers (ableit good ones lol). The Jedi teachings are massivly flawed, both in cannon and Moddb universe. the Sith teachings are also flawed, but luckily we corrected them.
Check!!!
If you say so.. Lol. I know what thoughts crept within your mind when delta assumed the mantle of the Dark Lord of the Sith Empire. You can deny it all you want, but you won't fool me. If it wasn't for the fear of Darth Xerstroung siding against you, you would have attempted to take power. If not, then you are more of a gray Jedi than Sith. - In my opinion - You see the Jedi teachings as I see Sith teachings "massively flawed".
No. The Republic would not wait for them to become too strong. But as it later turned out. Acting against them only served the Mandalorians purpose. Not everything is in black and white. Had they not acted. The Mandalorians would not have known how weakened the Republic actually was and they could not have pulled of the war as succesfully as they did.
"The Jedi High Council was hesitant to be drawn into another armed conflict. Only thirty years earlier, the fallen Knights Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma had successfully led a host of Jedi to the dark side and thence to war with the Republic. The resulting struggle with the Sith took a very heavy toll on the Jedi Order and it had yet to fully recover. In the face of a looming Mandalorian threat, the Jedi Masters grew cautious lest they repeat the mistakes of the past; they were wary of the dark side and they sensed that an unknown hand was at work behind the new war."
The Jedi Order did not want to enter the war because they feared it would result in more harm than if they did not, and by not joining ,,protected the republic,,. The Jedi did not refuse to join because of the Sith, but because they feared it would corrupt the Jedi that fought in the war (And at the time, the Jedi order was also greatly weakened by all the wars and conflicts). It happend with Exar Kun and his dark Jedi, and as it turned out later in the end of the Mandalorian wars. The Jedi council was in the end proven right when Revan and Malak returned as Sith.
The Jedi can save more lives and be much more effective in command than as normal soldiers. It should be noted that the Jedi were not afraid to fight as soldiers, and most did. An example of this is that; After the clone wars, the Emperor saw that without the Jedi Generals to lead them. They proved much less effective in combat. And yes, I know they were not ordinary soldiers, since they had less independant than normal soldiers. But they were still one of the best and greatest army the galaxy had ever seen.
The Jedi can serve in many ways but in wars as soldiers. ;)
Check mate!! xD
--- Damn 2000 word limit. LOL
Actually, no. Not check mate. From what you said about the Mandolorian Wars, it seems the Jedi were afraid that they would be killed, not caring for the Republic.
"struggle with the Sith took a very heavy toll on the Jedi Order and it had yet to fully recover. In the face of a looming Mandalorian threat, the Jedi Masters grew cautious lest they repeat the mistakes of the past"
It seems the Jedi couldn`t of cared less if the Mandolorians rampaged throughtout the Republic worlds, as long as they were safe on Coruscant. If it wasn`t for Revan, the Republic would of been replaced by a Mandolorian Empire. Fact.
Check Mate :D
Your arguments are beginning to become flawed. ;D
I already answered above, but I'll try again. As I said above, they were concerned that another Jedi would fall to the dark side and create havoc and destruction. Like it happend with Exar Kun. They were uncertain if they would be able to stop a new Sith from creating yet another war right after the Manadlorian wars. As it was proven with Revan and Malak. They failed to do so when they retuned as Sith.
They did care for the Republic, for they believed that entering the war was not the way to do it. Had the Republic not played right into the hands of the Mandalorians, they would not have needed the help of the Jedi to win the war. The Republic was losing the war because they in their arrogance believed that the Mandalorians did not have the strenght to defeat them.
Had Revan and Malak not joined the war and fallen to the Dark side, the Republic would have had more time to recover before the return of the Sith Empire from the unknown regions and many lives could have been saved. Fact.
At some point the Mandalorians would have extended themselves and their own defeces would have weakened. Which would have allowed the Republic to gain ground. - A RL example of this could be Germany during WW II, their army had no match, but as soon as they started to extend themselves, they started to lose the war.- Although RL have nothing to do with SW, I just wanted to present an argument for that it is not certain that the Republic would have lost.
Check Mate.. Again.. Lol
Btw. If we took this enitre discussion and combined our opinins it would make an awesome article ^^
Yes, but this isn`t Germany. This is a huge army of angry Mandolorians looking for a fight. If the Republic had let the Mandolorians beat them up without fighting, as I said before, the Republic would of fallen apart. Both the Senate (if there was a senate back then, not sure about that lol) and the planets in the Republic would of been outraged and left the Republic. Therefore the Republic would of been hugely weakened, not to mention the Republic soldiers that would rebel and form groups to go fight the Mandolorians. The Republic would of been weaker if they didn`t fight. If the Jedi had fougth beside them, 2 things might of happened:
The War would of ended quickly, meaning Revan would never ge the chance to fully corrupt the Republic and Jedi. This would also mean the Republic would have more time to recover.
The Jedi would be seen as heros and more respected in the Republic, meaning the Soldiers would be glad and happy to fight alongside heros, meaning morale would go up.
If the Jedi Council would of fought alongside the Republic Revan wouldn`t of been the main General, and would not be considered the main hero and therefore would not have been followed by as many Jedi/Republic soldiers. Revan would just be another Jedi in the Jedi Order, fighting under the orders of the Jedi Council instead of the Savious of the Republic.
Check Mate... Again >.<
I agree, it would be an awesome article :P
I have already forgotten why we are discussing the Mandalorian wars.. Lol.
I find it strange that you are considering the only two conclusions to the war to be the best possible ones. There are other possible conclusions to this war war. The conclusion the Jedi Council at that time was afraid of was that, it would end the same way as the previous war. The Jedi Order goes to war, and a group of Jedi becomes corrupted (inkluding Exar Kun as I have mentioned 2-3 times now..) and even more people dies in another conflict. The Jedi Order would have entered eventually, they would never have allowed the Republic to fall. I think that; if the Mandalorians reached a certain point the Jedi Order would have stepped in anyway, so maybe discussing this topic and guessing what MIGHT have happend, is actually a little pointless. LOL
Revan might have fallen anyway, they might still have been chosen as generals and chased the Mandalorians into deep space, where they ran into the Dark Lord of the Sith Empire. Or somebody else had fallen, maybe someone much more powerful. What we are discussing now is becoming pure guesswork so, I'm gonna draw the line here.
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Lol
Seems like all that is left is our Kings, so draw.. ;)
I agree that "ifs" and "maybes" don`t actually count in an arguement, but I still strongly believe that if the Jedi Council would of stepped in things would of turnt better for the Republic. Revan wouldn`t be considered a hero and only few would of been loyal to him, therefore only few would of fallen.
But anyway lol... Draw :P