All of the thanks to goes to Carnius for a great mod, I am thankful that you are kind enough to make this for me and the rest of the CNC community, without caring about any kind of pay or reimbersment. I and, I believe the rest of the CNC community really just want to say, THANKS CARNIUS! and thank you for coming to TEF.

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Suggestions for TE 1.5 (Groups : Tiberium Essence Fans : Forum : General Tiberium Essence Ideas : Suggestions for TE 1.5) Post Reply
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Nov 21 2012, 1:36pm Anchor

Wow, cool sketches! "La Di Da", :lol: Did you draw that M0nkfish? Are you a comic strip artist? I really like that close-up visual of the limpet on the right 8)

Well I my as well put my post from elsewhere here (this might be the one you already read M0nkfish):

"Hunter Seeker / Limpet Drone - For Nod, I have an idea that will reintroduce these drones. I've read before that people wanted drones or Hunter Seekers (1 or a squad of no more than 3) to replace the Fanatics - I would have been completely in favor of that. So revisiting that idea, I think it would actually work better if it was a single drone and not a squad. For the unit's voice, maybe give it that voice from the Mantis in Kane's Wrath. Just like the Hunter Seeker and Fanatics, give it the ability to crash into units/buildings (with the self destruct button too). For the damage that it does, have it be comparable to all of the Fanatics exploding. For speed, could use the same speed as the Fanatics. For the Limpit Drone likeness, give it the ability to simply deploy into/onto the ground (cloaked, but still attackable if seen). Also when it is deployed, perhaps its vision could be affected in some way: increased, decreased, depending on what's right for balance. I think this will be an excellent way and fitting for Nod to spy in strategic areas, until of course it is detected. Also, this would make an excellent harasser for enemy harvesters. If this unit cannot be built at the War Factory, whether it's because it should be more special or the building que is too full, have 3 of these come out from the ground as the new Subterranean Strike ability, replacing the fanatics, as mentioned above."

Also, would like to add that it would work fine either way with me if, when deployed, it can pack up to be a moveable unit again or it cannot be reversed, essentially like what happens with the Emissary after it deploys.

Not a bad idea at all for the "laying egg" idea, but not sure if it'd be good to give the Reaper yet another ability. I would really like it if Carnius did design them very similarly to how it is drawn here, though! But I think just having 2 or 3 of these drones be the new Subterranean Strike ability would be excellent :thumbup: :thumbup:

Starfox100 wrote:It's something like a self thinking mine on this image.
It's a bit the child of a limpet drone and a seeker drone in my opinion. "Limpet hunter"?

Exactly, like a Hunter Seeker/Limpet drone hybrid :)

Edited by: .Mac.

Nov 21 2012, 2:04pm Anchor

nope its original concept art from Firestorm development, i WISH i was that good with pen & ink (although i'm pretty good with Photoshop/GIMP)! Just thought that while the Reaper's "web" is a cool TS/FS Reference it has fairly limited applications and that the drone laying ability would show a cool little development from the Firestorm era and also suit the Reaper's style. If it's balance you're worried about maybe the build time of the Reaper could be increased to compensate.

If you want it as a support power it should cost at least 2000 (for 3) but i think having this as a unit dependent ability would make this more interesting/flavourful.

Nov 21 2012, 3:56pm Anchor

Well considering the Reaper is a Tier2 unit that is already widely used, better to have this egg/pod "laying" idea for something/someone else, but I cannot think of what else. Scrin maybe, but the Ravager has that parasite that's already similar in concept. Furthermore, the reaper is a unit that can shoot on land, shoot air units, slows infantry down with webbing, self heals in tiberium... so for the sake of gameplay and balance, it still has no business being able to lay a unit as sophisticated as the Hunter Seeker/Limpet Drone hybrid, honestly :) In this case, increasing its cost would not be a helpful solution either.

So I still think this drone of its capability should be its own unit that (now that I think of it) would be good being purchasable at the Secret Shrine (or Hand of Nod, if better there) as a Tier2 unit (and either have Subterranean Strike ability be 2-3 of these drones, or back to how it was in 1.4 with cyborg and rocket squads). If the drone can be built at a structure, I might prefer 1.4 style of Subterranean Strike, but if the drone cannot be purchased from any structure, better to have drones as the Strike ability. Plus, just replacing the Fanatics all throughout the game with this drone would be easiest too, because it'd be a good solution for campaigns when this style of unit is needed (eg, the first Nod mission).

Edited by: .Mac.

Smallchange
Smallchange GDI, 101st Airborn Division, Firehawk Pilot
Nov 21 2012, 4:33pm Anchor

Why not raise the subterraining strike's cost and add 2 drone hybrids to it? so you get 2 fanatics (maybe reduce squad count but keep same overall damage... just so it looks like they'd actually fit :P) and two hybrid drones.

Nov 21 2012, 5:13pm Anchor

@ .Mac. The Drone really isn't that sophisticated (by future technology standards). For starters it has a very low HP/armour (we're talking attack cycle or less) so it can be destroyed by almost anything (with the possible exception of unupgraded machinegun infantry). It's a sitting duck until it deploys and cloaks. Even when cloaked its vulnerable and fragile until it is detonated or does so automatically (a lot of things detect stealth and once deployed its permanently immobile). The only real way to ensure the Drones survive long enough to be deployed or used strategically is to escort them, what better unit to do the escorting than the versatile Cyborg Reaper, for all the reasons you describe above. I'm sure the laying ability would only be of marginal use in a similar way to the reaper's web ability due to the fact that it would have both a warm-up AND cool-down time and a high cost considering the extreme fragility of the Drone. The only real asset the Drone would have until its deployed is speed, and its not even that strong an explosion when detonated. It should also be considered infantry so Portable Stealth Generator support power doesnt apply to it

Cast your mind back to the days of Firestorm when these featured originally, they where hardly ever used in multiplayer games because of their limited usefulness, maybe used in less than 10% of games because of their fragility, were not considered all that useful by the majority of players and ended up being used primarily for scouting if they were used at all. There is no way these should be considered a tier 2 unit.

Having said this i do see your reasoning for directly replacing the Fanatics with these, and i CAN see it working as a support power, but for the reasons stated above don't feel it would be unbalancing for the Reaper to have this as a secondary ability, given that both the Drone and Web abilities are both of limited usefulness.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Nov 21 2012, 5:17pm Anchor
Smallchange wrote:Why not raise the subterraining strike's cost and add 2 drone hybrids to it? so you get 2 fanatics (maybe reduce squad count but keep same overall damage... just so it looks like they'd actually fit :P) and two hybrid drones.

Nah, like M0nkfish and I'm sure many others, I would honestly like to see EA's Fanatics be scrapped all together and be replaced with something more reminiscent to TS, and I think this Hunter Seeker/Limpet Drone hybrid would be the perfect choice :)

Nov 22 2012, 2:32am Anchor

I vote for Limpet Drone Squads.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 22 2012, 11:25am Anchor

So, the way I understand the limpet drone mcjigger, Is that once it is deployed, it becomes a high explosive anti vehicle mine, rather than an attached scout like in FS.

Working off of this concept (and assuming one limpet drone can take out one titan, I can see having them as a tier two unit, but maybe built from, say the warfactory, or produced by the mobile stealth generator.Having them at half the cost of a titan, while being able to kill a titan would be OP if it was T1, but at higher tiers, with more hostile diversity, as well as more stealth seeing things, it would maybe see a non-op use.

And even if it does suck by most people standards, I'll still use it for harv hunting :P

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Nov 22 2012, 5:05pm Anchor
GoldenArbiter wrote:Working off of this concept (and assuming one limpet drone can take out one titan...)

And even if it does suck by most people standards, I'll still use it for harv hunting :P


thats not a titan its a wolverine, and i doubt it would be able to kill one outright (might take 30 - 40% of the wolverines health)

Edited by: M0nkfish

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 23 2012, 10:42am Anchor
M0nkfish wrote:
GoldenArbiter wrote:Working off of this concept (and assuming one limpet drone can take out one titan...)

And even if it does suck by most people standards, I'll still use it for harv hunting :P


thats not a titan its a wolverine, and i doubt it would be able to kill one outright (might take 30 - 40% of the wolverines health)


Oh. Then in that case, I see literally no way it is OP, and in some (most) cases, it is underpowered. How much does a wolverine cost? 800, somewhere around there, yet the limpet costs 600 and only does less than half of its health. for the same price, you can get two scorpian tanks, which will not only kill the wolverine, but be able to kill a second wolverine, etc. In order for something like this to get featured, it needs to be worth it. Suicide units are hard to balance due to cost vs damage ratio. Since it's a one shot, they tend to be a smidgen cheaper than normal units, but they also need to have the firepower to back them up. If they could one shot a wolverine (which I guess would be ~50% of a titans health) and was a T2 unit, I think that would work for the first stage of balancing.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Nov 23 2012, 11:38am Anchor

How do peeps feel about this idea:-
In it's "mobile" undeployed state a Limpet Drone has smaller field of vision and is more effective against Structures (doing damage comparable to the Fanatic if not slightly more) and less effective against Vehicles, doing about 40 - 50% damage to the wolverines health in "undeployed mode" (assuming it can get close enough).

In its static deployed state the Limpet Drone has wider field of vision and is much more effective against Vehicles (though it could still target structures if any were within its range, for about 60% the damage it would do in "undeployed" mode), doing about 80 - 100% of damage to the wolverine's health in "deployed mode".

In my view the Limpet Drone should be spawned from a unit rather than a structure, and possibly still be available as the Subterranean Strike support power. If people think spawning Limpet Drones from the Cyborg Reaper (my prefered choice) is too OP then they could spawn from the NOD Phantom (would still fit in with this unit quite well) still with a smallish to moderate warm-up & cool-down time.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 23 2012, 11:50am Anchor

Hmmm.... okay, here's an idea: a squad of 5 limpet drones mines, costs 5000 dollars, if a T3 unit produced from the secret shrine, can successfully kill five wolverines, or 2.5 titans. Can only do damage when deployed, because that's how mines work.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Nov 23 2012, 12:35pm Anchor
GoldenArbiter wrote:...Can only do damage when deployed, because that's how mines work.

the idea is they can be manually detonated when mobile (as the fanatic) in order to replace the Fanatic as a unit in campaign mode/as support power.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Nov 23 2012, 3:56pm Anchor
M0nkfish wrote:the idea is they can be manually detonated when mobile (as the fanatic) in order to replace the Fanatic as a unit in campaign mode/as support power.

Yes, exactly :D I feel this drone unit must have the exact characteristics as the Fanatics (or very close to it), in order to seamlessly replace them so that the campaigns will still work fine. This is also why I suggested that the drone replacement be Tier2, because Fanatics are Tier2. Plus, adding another capability to it would be good, so it'd be more desired (and more "flavourful", as M0nfish nicely puts it); that's why I'd like adding the likeness of the Limpet Drone to it, to add more "essence" from TS this way, too ;)

I definitely agree, the Limpet Drone (as it was in TS) was not a good unit and at best, it was a decent scout - so I'd say after the 2nd war, Nod realized this as we did :D and decided, "This time, let's give it an upgrade and give it high explosives" (granted, GDI had the Limpet also, but I think we should just leave it for Nod - it fits their style better). So not only is it a good suicide drone to directly replace those silly Fanatics, it'd make an excellent scout when deployed, by cloaking and possibly increasing its LOS. Perhaps it could detect stealth when deployed? Perhaps this could be a unit that can lay mines when undeployed/deployed (in place of or in addition to the Scarab)? I really do like the idea of it being able to (manually) explode while deployed on the ground too, besides while undeployed - this would be great fun against an unsuspecting enemy harvester or unit treading next to it :D Obviously, it'll be SOL if detected from a distance and shot at, but that's just how it goes -_- Having it be a squad of no more than 3 cooould work (with the health and damage distributed evenly for balance), but I'd honestly like it better to be a single unit - just like the Limpet and Hunter Seeker were in TS and also like the Imperial Probe Droid from Star Wars :D

M0nkfish wrote:
GoldenArbiter wrote:Working off of this concept (and assuming one limpet drone can take out one titan...)

And even if it does suck by most people standards, I'll still use it for harv hunting :P


thats not a titan its a wolverine, and i doubt it would be able to kill one outright (might take 30 - 40% of the wolverines health)


A whole squad of Fanatics can take out a Titan and nearly an entire GDI Harvester, so I wouldn't mind if a single drone kept this same damage, or at least somewhat close to it (again, to directly replace the Fanatics). Plus, remember in TS the Hunter Seeker was powerful and could destroy anything on impact (obviously for balance reasons, we can't have this do that much damage ;) ), so keeping this relatively high damage (in homage to the Hunter Seeker) sounds good to me :thumbup:

I'd be a little more comfortable if this drone were spawned from the Phantom (at least this unit is weaponless) than the Reaper. What would we do, though, if the "spawning unit" for the drone is locked in the campaign, but we require this drone? There might be a way around this, but we can't assume there always is :paranoid: So still, if it's to be a replacement of the Fanatics, it would be better if it were buildable from a structure, and allow this unit itself to spawn/lay something, such as the mines I previously suggested, or something. GoldenArbiter, you say it could be built from the War Factory, (I could be wrong) but I don't think it could since the vehicle building que is all full, and I don't know if the game engine would allow it to be increased. This is why I'd suggest the Secret Shrine or Hand of Nod. Since the drone should be buildable (and not make it available via support ability only, so that the campaigns will still work with no issues), I'd like the Subterranean Strike ability to return to how it was in 1.4. Or, similar to what smallchange suggested earlier, have 1 or 2 of these drones plus 1 or 2 squads of something else for the Strike ability.

Unless Carnius or anyone else has a better name idea, I'd be perfectly fine with this unit being called Limpet Drone again. Or, borrowing from KW, Mantis sounds alright for a new unit name. Imo, Limpet Seeker and Hunter Drone don't flow right :P

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 23 2012, 5:46pm Anchor

@MAC I do believe the last thing I said it should be built from was the secret shrine, but I may have said warfac at one point.
Here's an idea, maybe when deployed, give it the ability to prematurely detonate, and give it a halfway decent blast radius.

Also, I like the name Limpet Mine :P

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Nov 23 2012, 7:26pm Anchor

@GoldenArbiter: Yep, you did mention the Secret Shrine last, but you did also mention the War Factory earlier - so I was just curious if it were possible to build more vehicles from the War Factory (for example, if we wanted to build the Limpet from here like how it was in TS), even if the building queue seems to be maxed at "12 units". Or does anyone know?

When you say "prematurely detonate", what do you mean exactly? When deployed, it'll essentially turn into a proximity mine? I think I'd prefer manual detonation at the moment, only because you might see a convoy coming your way and you don't want to nail the 1st unit, but the 4th or 5th unit instead (as an example).

So far, here's what I'd like to see for the new "Limpet Drone":
- A single, hovering drone that will replace the Fanatic squads that are still seen in campaign/skirmish
- Weapon: Like the Hunter Seeker (and Fanatics), a suicidal unit with a high explosive (with manual self-destruct button also)
- Good vs. vehicle, infantry, & structures
- Weak vs. Anti-Infantry Weapons (being that it'd be relatively small, anti-vehicle weapons will have a harder time hitting it)
- Armor: light
- Prerequisite: Operations Center
- Built at Secret Shrine/Hand of Nod/Operations Center/Construction Yard (I'm fine with either - Secret Shrine because it'd fit in with the other mechanical-based infantry; Hand of Nod because that's where the Fanatics were built originally and also the drone isn't a cyborg; Operations Center/Construction Yard because it is a unique, easy to build, suicidal drone that can also serve as a good scout by gathering intel with its moderate-high LOS and sends it back to base [but then should be built just like the Emissary in the defense queue, since it won't be using either of the other Infantry building queues])
- Ability: Unit is stealthed only when it isn't moving (The drone will hover when it moves, but when it stops, the animation could show it quickly lower to the ground and "deploy"; kinda like when the mutant Hunter doesn't move, she automatically drops and lays on the ground for her animation) (This way, no need to take the time to deploy/undeploy, allowing for easier mobility of the unit) (can set unit to be aggressive/defensive so it'll automatically attack nearby units [like seen in previous image], or set it to stand ground so you can tell it when to manually explode or keep it hiding)
Upgrade(s): Stronger armor and/or increased speed and/or lays mines (maybe Tech Center is prerequisite)

Edited by: .Mac.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 24 2012, 12:21am Anchor

When I said prematurely detonate, I meant manual. Sorry, various pharmaceuticals were making thinking harder earlier.

Also, it can't be built from the con yard. Or at least, I'm pretty sure it can't and that I've had this conversation before. It also probably can't be built from ops center.

The only thing there I don't agree with, is the not having to deploy. Putting a lot of firepower on one unit that can just run up to you, avoid AT weapons, and then boom, is a tad bit OP. Or maybe give the ability a timer, where it takes three seconds to detonate or something. Then it wouldn't be as bad, and would involve a rather tactics based gameplay with Nod.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Nov 24 2012, 2:02am Anchor

I don't see why it couldn't be built from the con yard :confused: It couldn't be built just like the Emissary? I'd understand if you couldn't train multiples at once like you could in the Hand of Nod, and that wouldn't be too big of a deal - in fact maybe this is part of the key for balancing a relatively high-explosive unit too - making you click every time you want one built. Carnius made it so the Secret Shrine deploys units, so maybe the Operations Center also? (as long as it were possible to have the drone be trained in the defense queue with the Emissary [rather than as its own Barracks] and then it exits the Operations Center). I was just thinking it'd be a nice flavour (M0nkfish, you got me hooked on this word :P ) if this unique unit exited either of these two structures (kinda like how the Hunter Seeker was unique and exited the Temple in TS).

High explosive is a relative term, so indeed the actual amount of damage it deals to each unit type must be considered for balance - FP can always be adjusted to what Carnius and people feel is right :) But that's the main point of this unit, to just suddenly run up to you and then boom :D (scouting is secondary) Better make use of and have riflemen or something at the ready ;) Giving the (manual) self-destruct ability a few (3) second delay would be interesting because it would require more precision for certain sneak attacks - I'd be in favor of that. But, I do think not having to deploy/undeploy it would actually be a better and beneficial feature for the unit's mobility/gameplay/balance (just show in animation that it deploys/undeploys when the unit stops/moves). If people want it to still be micro-managed with manual deploying, that's fine too, but it's possible it'd be too much of a sitting duck this way (for a unit that can only attack when near you, can see it while it's moving, and has light armor) - I guess the only way to know for sure is if Carnius tests things out. And I'm glad you could agree with everything else :)

Edited by: .Mac.

Nov 24 2012, 4:23am Anchor
.Mac. wrote:granted, GDI had the Limpet also, but I think we should just leave it for Nod - it fits their style better. So not only is it a good suicide drone to directly replace those silly Fanatics, it'd make an excellent scout when deployed, by cloaking and possibly increasing its LOS. Perhaps it could detect stealth when deployed?

Yes this would be cool.

.Mac. wrote:I'd be a little more comfortable if this drone were spawned from the Phantom (at least this unit is weaponless) than the Reaper. What would we do, though, if the "spawning unit" for the drone is locked in the campaign, but we require this drone?

We do the same thing we do currently when we require the Fanatics in campaign mode.

.Mac. wrote:it would be better if it were buildable from a structure, and allow this unit itself to spawn/lay something, such as the mines

I think it should be a one shot kamikaze scout/stealth mine and not be able to lay stuff itself, Let's leave the mine laying to the Scarab. Once deployed and stealthed it should be immoble (as Emmisary) but perhaps Variation in its damage should apply here as i stated earlier:

M0nkfish wrote:In it's undeployed state a Limpet Drone has smaller field of vision and is more effective against Structures than Vehicles. In its deployed state the Limpet Drone has wider field of vision and is much more effective against Vehicles than Structures.

I still think spawning these from a unit (perhaps Phantom) would make things a LOT more interesting than having them produced from a structure, but if you're dead-set on it being buildable in a normal way then i suggest making it available from the Operations Center... or maybe from Operations Center and Phantom.

The Limpet Drone would auto-detect (vehicle) targets in deployed mode but this could be circumvented by putting it in "do nothing stance" if you prefer manual detonation in deployed mode (for taking out specific targets in a convoy for example). I do like the Idea of 3 second fuse for manual detonation (in either of the drones modes, perhaps with voice countdown or bleeps). I also agree with .Mac. that it would be better as a single unit rather than a squad. It should really dig in though when it deploys (permanently) not just change animations...

In terms of the unit's "voice", Mantis voice from KW would suit it well. Speech seems too advanced for what is essentially a mobile bomb.

Perhaps Tiberium Power Packs upgrade should apply to the Limpet Drone (giving it more speed and health) making it a little more useful.

I'd like to see these Limpet Drones as the subterranean strike but if people dont like this then perhaps have it as 2 veteran cyborg squads and 2 veteran rocket infantry, or maybe even 2 veteran cyborg squads and 1 engineer.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Nov 24 2012, 3:38pm Anchor
M0nkfish wrote:
.Mac. wrote:I'd be a little more comfortable if this drone were spawned from the Phantom (at least this unit is weaponless) than the Reaper. What would we do, though, if the "spawning unit" for the drone is locked in the campaign, but we require this drone?

We do the same thing we do currently when we require the Fanatics in campaign mode.


I can see replacing every Fanatics squad already on the map with this drone, but we wouldn't be able to build any more of them when needed/required (while originally maybe we could) if they could only spawn from a vehicle (a vehicle that may still be locked) (can't always rely on free reinforcements, either). That's my concern, but perhaps it's still no problem :)

M0nkfish wrote:In terms of the unit's "voice", Mantis voice from KW would suit it well. Speech seems too advanced for what is essentially a mobile bomb.

Agreed ;) The Mantis is an available robotic voice, free for the picking in C&C that Carnius could easily use, so I think it'd work just fine and it'd save the trouble looking elsewhere or making one up. I honestly don't think I'd want the TS Limpet voice back, only because the Mantis has more varying sounds (such as an 'attack' voice) and it'd show us this drone has been modified a bit within the 20 years since TS (in terms of its hardware, besides its abilities).

Yep, I agree the Tiberium Power Packs could be applied to this unit also. And I also agree that it doesn't need to be able to lay mines (I'd worry it'd take away from the Scarab's ability too) but thought this was an alternative to your idea of "a unit laying another something" :) If it is possible to have the drone exit the Operations Center, even while built in the Defense Queue like an Emissary (so it won't be like another Barracks), this would be my favorite choice and I think it'd be interesting enough.

I'd definitely still like to see 2-3 of these drones as the Subterranean Strike ability also, only if Carnius decides it's better that it not be built from a structure. Otherwise, I think you have the right idea of it being squads of cyborgs and such, similar to how it was in 1.4. Or, (regardless if drone is buildable or not) I can definitely also see and might prefer 2 Scarabs unloading for this Strike ability: One APC has 1 veteran cyborg squad and 1 veteran rocket squad; the second APC has 1 veteran cyborg squad and 1 drone.

Edited by: .Mac.

Smallchange
Smallchange GDI, 101st Airborn Division, Firehawk Pilot
Nov 24 2012, 4:55pm Anchor

Who's up for making this it's own topic? :P

If you agree, I'll do that real quick (well, it won't be quick, because I'll have to gather crap up, but I can do it lol) :P

Nov 24 2012, 5:18pm Anchor

AGREED

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 24 2012, 5:59pm Anchor
Smallchange wrote:Who's up for making this it's own topic? :P

If you agree, I'll do that real quick (well, it won't be quick, because I'll have to gather crap up, but I can do it lol) :P


Meh Sure. So long as I don't have to do the work.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Smallchange
Smallchange GDI, 101st Airborn Division, Firehawk Pilot
Nov 24 2012, 7:23pm Anchor
Dec 22 2012, 8:55am Anchor

Please change the MotherShip skin to big (FotherShip) and build it bigger from movie (indepence day) !!!!!!!!!!!!
and more new units with power skill!!! thanks..........
:thumbup:

this ship!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Google.co.il

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