All of the thanks to goes to Carnius for a great mod, I am thankful that you are kind enough to make this for me and the rest of the CNC community, without caring about any kind of pay or reimbersment. I and, I believe the rest of the CNC community really just want to say, THANKS CARNIUS! and thank you for coming to TEF.

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NOD Tacitus Archive units (Groups : Tiberium Essence Fans : Forum : Nod Ideas : NOD Tacitus Archive units) Locked
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Mar 5 2013, 7:09pm Anchor

Some of it is quite similar, while others are different. TE has a traditional harvester, TA has a one that looks different but feels like it belongs. TA has more... weird component towers than TE. TA has many GDI buildings and some Nod buildings TS-ised. TA has a Devil's Tongue that is pretty much the same as the TS one, instead of the evolved one of TE. TE has more redone infantry. I think that they could blend well together, if they were to fuse there would be some question as to which flame tank would stay or which GDI harvester would stay, etc., but it would be resolved fairly quickly, maybe with a community vote.

Mar 15 2013, 7:51am Anchor

Personally i would hate to see TE combined with any other mod, it would detract from its awesomeness, considering the monumental effort Carnius has put in over the years.

Permit me to attempt to get this thread back on track with a few Montauk (II) ideas:

First, i'll say i'd like to see it with two separate carriages but i know that Carnius has said doing "mechapede" style stuff isnt codable in C&C3 so lets leave this aside. Assuming it can be done with 1 carriage as 1 unit i would like to see the following features;

In vehicle mode Montauk should be able to travel either over-ground or faster by tunneling in the style of the devils tongue it should have a "voice of kane" style aura when above ground and be equipped with 2 obelisks of darkness on the carriage section for defense [i still think the temple of nod could do with one of these things at its rear as a unique feature when all the SWs get enhanced], with only the tips of the obelisk showing so as to not drastically effect the look of the Montauk (we're in a post-CABAAL timeline so i'm sure the Brotherhood can now reproduce Obelisk of Darkness with the help of the Tacitus & a little digging in some old memory banks). At its front it should have 3 lasers which it can fire from its front spikes (for when the vibrating action isn't enough to break up the hardest rocks) these lasers can be used as AT when its above ground and work like a beefed up Basilisk laser which is also able to target multiple targets in multiple directions or just focus on one.

When deployed into "Fist of Nod" mode its stationary but retains the use of its obelisks and lasers, though the lasers might change position when in this mode. It loses its buffing aura when in this mode but its replaced with a wide repair aura for vehicles. In Fist of Nod mode it can produce the following units: Attack Cycle, Buggy, Scorpion Tank, Scarab APC, Basilisk Beam Cannon, Rocket Infantry, Saboteur & Cyborg Squad.

 
While in Fist of Nod mode it cannot be captured or repaired by any engineer, in order to repair it must be in Montauk mode next to a Phantom or War Factory, it can deploy back into Montauk mode to become mobile again at any time when its production queue is empty.

While its not fast enough over-ground to crush (up to medium) units (unless they're just standing around), when surfacing from under-ground it the Montauk does area-of-effect damage to enemy infantry and buildings and when surfacing it can also "swallow" up to medium sized vehicles, killing them instantly. If possible, when "swallowing" tanks the Montauk might give a few credits based on the value of the unit and its remaining health when swallowed.

The Montauk could leave a capturable husk ONLY IF the Kodiak also does, in the interests of fairness.
Regarding the idea of putting a nuke on this thing i'd prefer if the Cyborg Commando had a mini-nuke at the point of death Predator style

Edited by: M0nkfish

Mar 15 2013, 5:02pm Anchor
M0nkfish wrote:Personally i would hate to see TE combined with any other mod, it would detract from its awesomeness, considering the monumental effort Carnius has put in over the years.

That's how I feel too. Carnius has been creating this mod by himself after all this time and everything he's done is excellent, so there's really no need at all to merge (even if Carnius were remotely interested in that idea). The only help that I can see Carnius requiring at this time is, the usual, getting useful ideas/suggestions/concept designs from us fans (and he sorts out which ones he likes and will work best), hopefully some more music, and possibly some people willing to do (professional sounding) unit voices for a lot of these new units he's creating (because it's doubtful that C&C4 has any more that he would like to use).

Yes let's get back on track:

Great write-up of ideas! Here's what I really like:
- the "voice of kane" aura in vehicle mode. I was thinking something like this too, especially if Kodiak gets an aura as well (Kodiak could get a defensive one, while Montauk gets an offensive "voice of kane" one, and Conqueror could get a unique aura also).
- I agree it shouldn't be capturable in its FON state, because it wouldn't be fair, especially since the Kodiak and Conqueror shouldn't be capturable at all either.
- glad to see someone else wanting to see this vehicle have two modes (vehicle or structure, where in the latter it predominately builds vehicles and possibly some infantry)
- I see no reason why Nod wouldn't have access to Obelisk of Darkness too, just as long as their designs will be nonobtrusive to the overall unit design (as well as them not appearing as though they could break off when it is traveling underground XD ). I too had thought of the possibility of those 3 points at the front being able to shoot lasers at stuff - then, the Montauk definitely won't need a bulky drill as the others do (keeping its pretty design); instead it'll primarily use high-powered beams to cut through the earth. Of course I like the idea of the weapons shifting around so that they can still be useful in either mode (that is if Carnius doesn't feel that it'd be OP that the structure keeps both weapons, while at the same time it can build units).

What I don't care for:
- While I really like the idea of AOE damage when the Montauk II surfaces, I don't think I'd want it to instantly kill or swallow units. To me I feel it'd be giving this unit a bit too much, considering what it has going for it already, and so I feel it'd be OP. If any damage is to be dealt at all when it surfaces, just leaving it as dealing a percent of damage to certain type of units will be better I think (more damage to infantry than with vehicles), if this concept were possible.
- Husks are fine by me if he wants to return this ability for certain vehicles, but I don't want capturable husks for these particular units.

Edited by: .Mac.

Mar 15 2013, 6:33pm Anchor

Regarding the "swallow" ability, i reasoned that as it only has AA Obelisks and the frontal lasers wouldn't be that powerful, like the basilisk they would be a constant beam that strips armour and health over time - only a more intense variant, so it would still take some time to heavily damage units this way. The ability to swallow up a tank if you surface beneath it would give it a little extra threat as its not geared towards offensive use but this tactic could also be quite risky. It would only affect 1 tank and only if its directly above the point at which you surface, as there is a cool off time for tunneling and this wouldn't work while submerging into the earth it would not be able to be used that often. There would also be limited occasions that this tactic is wise it could often be a very bad idea indeed. I can see why this might seem cheap but it's not really OP especially if you compare it to Kodiak's miniature ion cannon. I also thought it might be nice to get a few extra credits this way (if its possible) as instant harvesting in a MARV style is impossible in C&C3.

Someone (forgive me i suck with names) on the comments page for Kodiak images suggested that it should leave a hulk and their explanation made a lot of sense to me, i feel if it leaves a hulk then the Montauk should too. In both cases, not only would it mean that if things go to hell your sizable investment is recoverable but if you where to lose control of the Tacitus you could still save something. Also the idea of sneaking off with an enemies epic appeals XD

If hulks were to reappear i would only have them for all the Tacitus Secondary Units as they are very special.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Mar 19 2013, 2:16am Anchor

Interesting ideas. I like the idea of a more powerful Basilisk beam cannon for the front. I'd say a 1-2 unobtrusive Obelisks of Darkness on top would work nicely, and should remain functional while deployed, but the main front laser should turn off. 'Swallowing' units might not be that OP but it probably would be a pain to code, and doesn't really make sense if it uses lasers not a drill. I'd go for the Montauk being able to produce both infantry and basic vehicles when deployed (Attack Cycle, Buggy, Scorpion Tank, Scarab APC, Militia, Rocket Infantry, Saboteur & Cyborgs), but I wouldn't want it to have to unfold into a building like the original Fist of Nod. That would somehow look silly on a unit that can tunnel.

Instead of having a repair vehicles aura when deployed, that's when it should have the Voice of Kane style damage boost. Somehow it seems fitting that vehicles produced by the Montauk would have to return to an actual base to be repaired, but would fight harder when near it. That would make the Montauk into an aggressive forward attack post that can pop up from nowhere and overwhelm the enemy with waves of quick, cheap units, but it'd be somewhat vulnerable to ground attack while moving, and unable to attack enemy ground units at all when deployed if the enemy destroyed its support units. A repair aura would make it too defensive, and Nod already has Phantoms.

If you did have it attack using its subterranean movement, it would initially be possible to overwhelm as it would arrive alone, so you'd have to think carefully whether to do that in order to attack from an unexpected direction or send it along the ground normally as part of a larger attack force.

I'm against hulks for any of the epic units because to destroy them you'd have to do seriously huge damage, and they are very complex and valuable units that you just couldn't repair so easily.

Mar 19 2013, 2:34am Anchor

@M0nkfish I guess it all depends on how long the cool down is for the subterranean ability, and if it'll have limited range. But I think damaging units with a bit of AOE would be just enough from the Montauk's subterranean ability (if it's even possible), then I'd say give the Kodiak the ability to do AOE collateral damage to things underneath it after it is destroyed and crashes (although, now that I think about it more, the Kodiak should have this realistic feature anyway - and then this plausible feature could almost mirror the Cyborg Commando's, where it'd be awesome if it did a last resort AOE plasma explosion when it's destroyed).

Arkanium wrote:I'm against hulks for any of the epic units because to destroy them you'd have to do seriously huge damage, and they are very complex and valuable units that you just couldn't repair so easily.

I agree. Furthermore, what if the enemy had an engineer nearby instead of yours? :S So with this feature, a player can potentially have at least two epic units from the Tacitus Archive, which wouldn't be good at all and it'd be too much power for one person to have (This is also why when it's in the Fist of Nod mode, it shouldn't be capturable - it's all about balance and what's fair between the factions). For this reason, I would say no to any epic unit leaving a husk that can be simply recaptured using an engineer. Husks would be fine for lower-tier units though.

Edited by: .Mac.

Mar 19 2013, 12:20pm Anchor

Arkanium wrote: 1-2 unobtrusive Obelisks of Darkness on top would work nicely, and should remain functional while deployed, but the main front laser should turn off.

 

Why? Should it be defenseless against ground units while waiting for it's units to be produced? Also the lasers would give to some ground defence while stationary, arguably this is when its most vulnerable. It would also help protect the weaker units, such as the attack cycle, while they are still near the Montauk when its deployed. It seems foolish to have it defenseless when its deployed and cant escape.

Arkanium wrote:'Swallowing' units might not be that OP but it probably would be a pain to code, and doesn't really make sense if it uses lasers not a drill..


The lasers are just used for the hardest rocks, it would use its vibrating spikes for the normal earth, just thought that the Montauk could easily fit a vehchle inside that massive maw it has at the front, presumably it has some internal mechanism for crushing up earth so i figured that if an enemy tank goes through that then its metal could be reused for making the vehicles that the Montauk produces (hence why it would give you credits; effectively reducing your costs). 

But yes if this is a bitch to code i'd be happy to settle for AOE damage when the Montauk surfaces - strongest at the middle so any light vehicles or infany in the center of the area are almost certainly dead, with the damage getting progressively less further away from the center point.. 

Arkanium wrote:I wouldn't want it to have to unfold into a building like the original Fist of Nod. That would somehow look silly on a unit that can tunnel.

 

As long as the transformation animation is cool enough and the building design is sympathetic to how it looks in Montauk mode it shouldn't look silly. Its important to be able to tell at a glance whether its in a mobile or stationary mode so i feel having it "trasnsform" is kind of important


Arkanium wrote:Instead of having a repair vehicles aura when deployed, that's when it should have the Voice of Kane style damage boost. Somehow it seems fitting that vehicles produced by the Montauk would have to return to an actual base to be repaired, but would fight harder when near it. That would make the Montauk into an aggressive forward attack post that can pop up from nowhere and overwhelm the enemy with waves of quick, cheap units, but it'd be somewhat vulnerable to ground attack while moving.

 
On reflection i agree with this, i especially like the idea of the Montauk being unable to fire the frontal lasers while moving only being able to fire them when still, this would make sense because if its tunneling it would be using vibration to do so, until it comes to REALLY compacted rocks, then it stops to fire the lasers and blast them away before continuing to tunnel. Voice of Kane aura in both modes :)  

Arkanium wrote:I'm against hulks for any of the epic units because to destroy them you'd have to do seriously huge damage, and they are very complex and valuable units that you just couldn't repair so easily.


OK no hulks :) i just want to see consistancy but i'd be happy to see no hulks for anything.
 
 
 

.Mac. wrote:I'd say give the Kodiak the ability to do AOE collateral damage to things underneath it after it is destroyed and crashes (although, now that I think about it more, the Kodiak should have this realistic feature anyway - and then this plausible feature could almost mirror the Cyborg Commando's, where it'd be awesome if it did a last resort AOE plasma explosion when it's destroyed).


I totally agree with this its entirely logical and sensible, CC's AOE attack (on death) should be a mini-nuke not a plasma explosion 1) because a tiny mushroom cloud would look SO CUTE & 2) because this shows GDI & NOD's different approaches, while GDI puts their mini SW on the Kodiak NOD conceal it as a parting shot on their most elite cyborg rather than installing a launch system on the Montauk.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Apr 5 2013, 6:26am Anchor

@Ahrimansiah You guys doin a VERY GOOD JOB... TE is the best classic strategy game ever bu, pls reintroduce/rework fanatics and the awakened. You and Carnius are the best mod creators on this game

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