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Mar 16 2011, 8:45am Anchor

I've started this thread because i would like to discuss with all of you about units who use flames in battle.

I guess the only Nod flame unit who's really effective is the Black Hand. Its mobility is good, fair price, good firepower and good versatility.

New Devil's tongue has a problem, The  rotating turret's loss has made im less versatile, the medium armour and speed doesn't help, so the slow rate of turn. Instead to buff these parameters, I would like to suggest the pop up nozzles for each side (like vanilla TS), nozzles are able to rotate to 180° independently. In this way can counter more enemies per time and gains more versatility than before.

Speaking about flames I was thinking about Avatar upgrades. Why should I choice which upgrade I need while I could need both of them per unit? I think it's a limitation not have a fully upgraded Avatar, while other counterparts (tripode and mammoth) are complete, ok it can be cost 3000 (1500 sentinel + 1500 purifier) for each unit, but should the player be able to choice how to spend their money?

And last but not least: do you think the return of purifier blue flame is a good thing to all flame units (Black hand, Devil's tongue and Avatar)?

playmsbk
playmsbk 21st Special Nod Division
Mar 17 2011, 6:41am Anchor

The Black Hand Squads are f*cking awesome!

The worst problem of the Devil's Tongue is that when you use the power with lots of them, they unburry at teh same place, and defences just own them all at once.

I think it's balanced you have to choose between those two. Imagine unstoppable stealthed flame Avatars in your base destroying even your only counter, air units. I say no on this one.

It'd be sweet if we had that! Blue flames are awesome.

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FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, DIE FOR KANE!

Mar 17 2011, 5:04pm Anchor

I'm glad I'm not alone about my thoughts.

Thinking about avatar, if you want both of them, you must spend 5000 money per avatar, 5000 for just one unit isn't that cheap. If you think you spend 5000 for force fields/railgun upgrades (and they aren't useful only for tripodes/ mammoth tanks), and you've spent once for all the units (and mammoth uses AA missiles), a fully upgraded avatar wouldn't be that overpower in my opinion.

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I agree, also they need the "deploy" ability in order to fire. now they are too fast, they can fire and run without any time delay.

The "minibomb" of the shadow team (and their explosive) is too much weak.

Mar 17 2011, 5:39pm Anchor

Fortress, i you´re saying that´s the motive of the multi upgrade is because there is a Railgun and Shield upgrade, you should take a look on the Tiberium Missiles and Laser Cannon upgrades. Also Nod was not made to face the enemy directly.

About the burrying ability of the Devil´s Tongue, try using the planning mode. Same with Scarad, Falcon and the Hover MRLS  ;)

The blue flames are cool, but how they would look on a heroic unit?  :|  Imo, they should replace the old red heroic flames.

Also I think that some changes should be made on the Sentinel upgrade. The Purifier upgrade looks more attractive and you can use mobile stealth generator support power

Smallchange
Smallchange GDI, 101st Airborn Division, Firehawk Pilot
Mar 17 2011, 8:03pm Anchor
Black/Brunez wrote: The blue flames are cool, but how they would look on a heroic unit?  :|  Imo, they should replace the old red heroic flames.

Yeah i completly agree... the funky red flames dont really change it enough for you to even notice it in a huge battle...

Mar 20 2011, 9:40am Anchor
Black/Brunez wrote:Fortress, i you´re saying that´s the motive of the multi upgrade is because there is a Railgun and Shield upgrade, you should take a look on the Tiberium Missiles and Laser Cannon upgrades. Also Nod was not made to face the enemy directly.

Not always, Avatars are the Nod answer to enemy heavy units. So cyborgs are slow and sturdy. I don't get exactly your point. Could you explain it a bit more about laser capacitor and tiberium missiles's upgrades, please?

Black/Brunez wrote:About the burrying ability of the Devil´s Tongue, try using the planning mode. Same with Scarad, Falcon and the Hover MRLS  ;)

I'm not arguing about burrying ability, it's absolutely necessary and useful IMHO, those units needed it, what I'm saying is: devil's tongue deserves more versatility. Scarab APC loaded with Black Hand could even replace Devil's Tongue in terms of mobility and versatility, for this reason I was suggesting about pop up rotating nozzles.

Black/Brunez wrote:The blue flames are cool, but how they would look on a heroic unit?  :|  Imo, they should replace the old red heroic flames.

As in KW, just a bit glittering, this would solve the problem, I guess.

Black/Brunez wrote:Also I think that some changes should be made on the Sentinel upgrade. The Purifier upgrade looks more attractive and you can use mobile stealth generator support power

Partially agreed, something more attractive should be added, and that's because player shouldn't choose between these upgrades (both of them important for each Avatar). IMHO a choice should be for epic units (ex: 2 scrin Motherships, Mammoth 2 upgrades, a good choice for a Cyborg Commando for a possible upgrade could be: plasma riot beam like RA3 Future tank X1 or fury generator like KW redeemer).

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I agree, also they need the "deploy" ability in order to fire. now they are too fast, they can fire and run without any time delay.

The "minibomb" of the shadow team (and their explosive) is too much weak.

Mar 20 2011, 10:37am Anchor
Fortress wrote: Not always, Avatars are the Nod answer to enemy heavy units. So cyborgs are slow and sturdy. I don't get exactly your point. Could you explain it a bit more about laser capacitor and tiberium missiles's upgrades, please?

Well, have you checked the list of upgrades on the Nod´s little piramid? you will find them there. With them, also with the Tiberium Particule Beam upgrade, almost every Nod unit will have more firepower. The Tiberium missiles is my personal favorite: They are a pain for enemy aircraft and vehicles. Just love Stealth Tanks with this upgrade.
It´s the real conter for those upgrades.

Fortress wrote: I'm not arguing about burrying ability, it's absolutely necessary and useful IMHO, those units needed it, what I'm saying is: devil's tongue deserves more versatility. Scarab APC loaded with Black Hand could even replace Devil's Tongue in terms of mobility and versatility, for this reason I was suggesting about pop up rotating nozzles.

That was an little helpfull answer for playmsbk. Also Devil´s Tongue is cheaper than the Scarab and Black Hand combo. But some weak independent pop up turrets, as an individual upgrade, looks cool.

FM wrote: As in KW, just a bit glittering, this would solve the problem, I guess.

Yeah... but the upgrade, imo, is not really necessary imo.

FM wrote: Partially agreed, something more attractive should be added, and that's because player shouldn't choose between these upgrades (both of them important for each Avatar). IMHO a choice should be for epic units (ex: 2 scrin Motherships, Mammoth 2 upgrades, a good choice for a Cyborg Commando for a possible upgrade could be: plasma riot beam like RA3 Future tank X1 or fury generator like KW redeemer).

So with this you´re talking about remove the Avatar upgrades? Hell, this will be really missed.
Also The Cyborg Commando is an infantry unit. You can try some thigs, like put it on a Scarab and start a strike on the heart of the enemy base. Or even a powerful stealth tank, with the Scarab and Mobile Stealth Generators upgrades.

playmsbk
playmsbk 21st Special Nod Division
Mar 20 2011, 12:50pm Anchor

The thing is that if you have 30 DT's and you have a limited time before the enemy's base is shrouded again, you have to go up and down in your base and the enemy's really fast to do that.

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FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, DIE FOR KANE!

Mar 21 2011, 7:37am Anchor
playmsbk wrote:The worst problem of the Devil's Tongue is that when you use the power with lots of them, they unburry at teh same place, and defences just own them all at once.


Do what I always do, unburry 100+ DT's at one place(not at the enemies place) and before they scattered, use cloaking field support power. Then you have 100+ cloaked DT's and then unburry it at the enemies place where there's no stealth detector so you have a chance to scatter em, then start burning! I call it "Silent Hell Attack" 8)

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"No keys? No problem.."

Mar 21 2011, 8:06am Anchor
Black/Brunez wrote: Well, have you checked the list of upgrades on the Nod´s little piramid? You will find them there. With them, also with the Tiberium Particle Beam upgrade, almost every Nod unit will have more firepower. The Tiberium missiles is my personal favorite: They are a pain for enemy aircraft and vehicles. Just love Stealth Tanks with this upgrade.
It´s the real conter for those upgrades.

Ok. Other sides's units can get more firepower via upgrades and this is only fair.

Black/Brunez wrote:That was a little helpfull answer for playmsbk. Also Devil´s Tongue is
cheaper than the Scarab and Black Hand combo. But some weak independent
pop up turrets, as an individual upgrade, looks cool.

Ok. It may be a good solution, do the nozzles replace the front flamethrower or should it stay?

Black/Brunez wrote:So with this you´re talking about remove the Avatar upgrades? Hell, this will be really missed.
Also The Cyborg Commando is an infantry unit. You can try some thigs, like put it on a Scarab and start a strike on the heart of the enemy base. Or even a powerful stealth tank, with the Scarab and Mobile Stealth Generators upgrades.

Not at all, my English must be bad because I've told the opposite. I've never told to remove the Avatar individual upgrades. I've only suggested to make both of them available. Sentinel and Purifier instead of Sentinel or Purifier. So the player can decide to have both of them per Avatar, now the player is forced to choose (and a fully upgraded Avatar will cost 5000 which sounds fair to me). Off course the Cyborg Commando is an infantry unit but is still epic. It would be nice to "customize" it like other sides do.

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I agree, also they need the "deploy" ability in order to fire. now they are too fast, they can fire and run without any time delay.

The "minibomb" of the shadow team (and their explosive) is too much weak.

Mar 21 2011, 1:27pm Anchor

No, not removing the front flame trowers. The little nozzles wouldn´t replace them. Actually work as a cheap support individual upgrade.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Mar 23 2011, 5:41pm Anchor

i personally think that so long as the devils tongue still spews fire, all is good.

however, maybe add the other flame tank in as well? so you could have the devils tongue, AND the flame tank?

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"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Mar 28 2011, 8:33am Anchor

I guess a single, versatile unit is better than 2 units with similar purpose.

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I agree, also they need the "deploy" ability in order to fire. now they are too fast, they can fire and run without any time delay.

The "minibomb" of the shadow team (and their explosive) is too much weak.

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