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The T-90 hungers.
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Spudman619 Dec 18 2012, 10:52am says:


+9 votes     reply to comment
DEathgod65 Dec 18 2012, 11:23am says:

The US better step up and get the M1A3 ready to match this, I bet the M1A2 SEP will get torn to shreds by this monster

+1 vote     reply to comment
TyXo Dec 18 2012, 11:38am replied:

That's why US is part of Nato, so they can ask Germany for help :D

+20 votes     reply to comment
CommanderDef Dec 18 2012, 12:23pm replied:

A very good one, but now seriously, is Leopard 2 better than Abrams? Is there an objective way to compare tanks that never fought each other...

+4 votes     reply to comment
TyXo Dec 18 2012, 12:47pm replied:

Actually, yes, Leopard 2A6 has better amor, faster and has a bigger main gun. You can confirm this with just a research on wikipedia xD The cons of the Leo: Heavier and expensive for use in large numbers.

+10 votes     reply to comment
-=ForcesUnknown=- Dec 18 2012, 1:30pm replied:

Actually to contrary belief. The Leo 2 series has the same 120mm smooth bore as the Abrams, it just has more ammunition when compared to the Abrams's which uses useless HEAT and SABOT ammo. It's also lighter than the Abrams at 60 tons, where as the Abrams weights 72-76 tons, and it is faster and much more fuel efficient, but its more expensive yes, but its worth the cash. Its armor is better since it uses Chobham instead of Dochester (Dochester is used on the Abrams, not Chobham).

I say the best way to compare tanks to each other is to realistically have a match hosted by the UK, not US (we cover up results of other peoples weapons to glorify our stuff, its very basic propaganda and many have fallen for US propaganda, again).
We should use real crews, with live ammo, and live tanks in a realistic series of environments. Full combat spectrum and everything. Just pure armored vehicle warfare.

+13 votes     reply to comment
TyXo Dec 18 2012, 1:45pm replied:

The leo 2A6 uses the L/55 while Abrams still using the L/44. And you just said the same with more details. In theory, Leopard still the most effective tank, the bestest tank. the sauce about the L/55 and L/44

+8 votes     reply to comment
-=ForcesUnknown=- Dec 18 2012, 2:56pm replied:

I guess I should have put @CommanderDef....

But yes. I agree that the Leo series is a superior main battle tank when compared to ones that are in service.

+4 votes     reply to comment
CommanderDef Dec 18 2012, 4:44pm replied:

Thanks. But you both forgot one thing - Abrams was used in many different conditions and has been adapted. At first it had problems with sand, which has been solved with new filters. This is just an example. When those Leopards come to fights some day, they will too suffer by these "minor" problems coming with different conditions.

What I am trying to say, I love German Panthers. On paper they are far superior to T34/85 or modified Shermans. But German war production = Polish sabotage. Also it was quite hi-tech and needed more maintenance, suffered more by field conditions. In real life, not only gun and armor, but also reliability plays a role. Talking about reliability, Abrams is nothing good, but everytime it runs into problem, there are modifications for 'next time'. While Leos are not used in conflict and those glitches are not discovered yet.

+6 votes     reply to comment
GriffinZ Dec 20 2012, 1:22pm replied:

ze Germans learned from WWII, zey are the best engineers in the world and there is no glitches in their designs. Newer versions doesn't fix any glitches because there ain't any, they just add the latest of technology in every new series of Leopards >:D

No but seriously the tank is used by so many countries that pushes the tank to its limits in trails, most problems has been sorted out and fixed.

+1 vote     reply to comment
nickael7 Dec 20 2012, 5:09pm replied:

You're overrating the Germans, not all their engineering are good. Telling you that by experience.

-3 votes     reply to comment
nickael7 Dec 20 2012, 5:14pm replied:

Abrams has top notch armor compared to Leo2A6, but lacks agility (lightness), its way too heavy, one of the reason why reactive armor was invented for compactness, lightness and ease of maintenance.

-4 votes     reply to comment
nickael7 Dec 20 2012, 5:07pm replied:

Leo 2A6 has no ATGM capabilities and no reactive armor. So its not the best tank out there and its cheaper at 5.5 million $ each. The L-55 cannon is used to shoot Tungsten alloy K.E.P., while L-44 is made to shoot D.U-238 K.E.P.

-3 votes     reply to comment
Delta.Boy Dec 31 2012, 7:35pm replied:

Leo 2A6M is from my point of view the best tank, may have to compete with the T-90A but anyway better than the Abrams (Leo can have ERA) since the Abrams uses lots of german equipment used in older Leo versions, also the 2A6M is battle tested, may not but germans themselves but canadians use them in desert terrain and Leo 1's are still in active service, also able to compete with modern tanks, may not the current MBT's but other kinds of combat vehicles. Also it's german so your argument is invalid.

+2 votes     reply to comment
nickael7 Jan 4 2013, 1:46pm replied:

I've been in the Canadian forces operating as a combat engineer to dispose of dangerous I.E.D. and other loose explosive shells layed on the rocky terrain in Afghanistan back in 2008. I never saw a Leo2A6M (as the canadians forces has only a handful of them) being hit hard by a serious AT weapon none of them saw real hardcore action as the Abrams and T-90A saw. The only thing that is German about the Abrams: 1)is the chassis layout from MBT-70 and 2)the gun and sabot munitions. The rest is British (Chobham armor the best armor out there with D.U.), and the U.S. advance computer systems -AWACS, GPS, target recognition, etc. On top of that, the jet engine + transmission, which makes it the fastest heaviest tank.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Geoffrey513 Mar 11 2015, 10:44pm replied:

the abrams is a 60 ton tank .. but the engine is built for a 75 ton .. and the HEAT rounds are used for infantry support and can be swapped out .. and the SABOT round will go straight through anything ...

+1 vote     reply to comment
L00Ng_StRyKr Mar 23 2013, 11:48pm replied:

Regardless of how much I love the Abrams, it is getting out of date. The United States needs to develop a new heavy tank, rather than the current MBT, who is becoming more of a medium tank than a game changer.

+1 vote     reply to comment
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