Free Debate Community
Educational
A group dedicated to the civilized debate and discussion of a wide range of topics, from the political to gaming and so on.
Rise of Far Right Groups in EU
(view original)
Post a comment
Description
It may not seem like a suitable time since the pain of Paris attacks are just fresh, but in my opinion this is heavily relevant. BTW I am not saying far right causes extremism, I believe it is the other way around, so please don't get me wrong.
So, how do you feel about the rise of xenophobia and right-wing policies across Europe?
Here is a relevant report from 2013:
Theguardian.com
I think that these groups will get more popular as mainstream parties currently act useless and refuse to tackle issues like immigration because of political correctness.
Could you care to explain what is there to tackle about "immigration"?
It's actually more like those parties create the problem themselves by projecting economic hardship onto the "evil immigrants" who "steal all our jobs" and cannot be bothered to "accept our culture". Usually easily pulled of during times of crisis, like the one in Europe recently, same with the tea party and the 2008 crisis.
In reality, it's a joke to think that a country nowadays can be economically succesful without immigrants and/or foreign resources.
I'm not suggesting that we need to stop immigration. What I'm talking about is, for example, the incompetent handling of illegal immigrants here in the UK. Thousands are still here and the mainstream parties have done sweet f*ck all to solve it. Then we have the Calais camps of illegals. The French have them contained, but that's about it. The British government hasn't helped the situation. If they're caught, they're sent back there rather than to the country of origin.
As far as it not being a problem, as long as the public take issue with it, it is a problem.
Note also that I stated 'issues like immigration'. That's not the only one. We've had a scandal in the UK in Rotherham in which a gang of Asian (Pakistani I think) men were able to molest/rape young girls and get away with it because the police were ordered by the council to not intervene for fear of being called racist. Any issue that is even slightly controversial, immigration, race, gender and so on, has been handled terribly by the mainstream parties. These right wing parties offer a more direct solution; something an angry public would appreciate.
in b4 'u r a racism' I'm a 3rd generation immigrant.
But that's exactly what I meant: how much of a problem are illegal immigrants really? How much does the state spend for them? I think we both agree it's not a meaningful amount considering all the other crap it pays for "in the name of the taxpayer". And isn't it just fair in the end to give them at least a chance at immigration?
Here in Germany (where I'm first gen :P) the federal states where the borderline racist Pegida protests are currently take place are the ones with the least immigrants, inside the former DDR. Meanwhile in the former West Germany, immigrants are treated just like normal people and social activism to integrate "Asylbewerbers" is pretty common. And of course, those protesters are being courted by only one party: the AfD which after 2 years has already managed to devolve from Euro-Sceptic to borderline nationalistic.
And that's exactly the probelm I mainly have with those new "Anti-Euro" parties: the fact that they mobilize the "angry public" in turn quickly shifts them to the far right, turning them into cesspools of nationalists, antisemites, and, quite simply, racists. (Bad word, but sometimes true) Not implying that you are one. (Nothing to do with you) I just find that they always go through this same "evolution". Of course, there are issues that need to be tackled, but we don't need ultra-right or ultra-left parties for that, but rational, well-grounded ones. Noone is going to make a coaltion with the FN, AfD or Golden Dawn, even if they get 10% of the parliament vote. And this therefore drowns out every sensible idea they had, and simply marks them as fringe "outcasts".
I think part of the issue here is that the immigration issue is different between our two countries. To quote the French Mayor of Calais (paraphrased):
'Illegals see the UK as the soft nation of Europe. £30 a week is a lot for people that have nothing'.
Britain has an asylum seeker/benefit/immigration system that has been, is and can be exploited more easily than that of other Euro nations. None of the main parties address this or address it satisfactorily. As such, parties like UKIP that offer 'solutions' gain a lot more appeal.
Natural way of people getting ******. I don't support this, but we are kinda helpless now. It may do some good and then we must return to normal thinking before we do something bad - impossible.
I don't think tolerating far right just for the sake of fixing immigration is worth it though. It is like, tolerating hate speech, anti semitic and anti islamic parts too.
I believe there could be another way to fix immigration without tolerating far right.
I don't want to see such parties gaining power in Europe honestly, but I don't think the ineffective parties will stay in their places for longer than a decade. I honestly fear the future because I can't foresee it, as people fear the unknown.
P.S.: Are there any other dominant issues that far right proposes to fix apart immigration?
Hey, calm your horses, that map is wrong about my country. In Spain the conservatives are in office, there is no such thing as conservatives in the opposition. And what is that about far right? Coservatives are simply centre-right, as they should be. Besides, while far-right groups are rising in other parts of Europe, here the trouble comes in the form of a rising far-left, like in Greece! Which is just as worrying.
Ah , come on , it is just a dummy, placeholder image. Sorry if it's not accurate, but I didn't do it, or read it throughly to see if there were any errors.
Please, don't attack personally ina debate group. And How did you come up with that?
-In Macedonia, a nationalist/conservative party is in power. There have been incidents of extreme violence towards LGBT people, once a dozen people were murdered.
-Hungarian Jobbik is openly anti-semitic, anti-roma and Turanist. Pan-nationalist ideals are always bad.
-Have you even looked at BNP's website? Bnp.org.uk
-I know the Nationalist party in Turkey from first hand. They are only mild when compared to some European counterparts, yet they are hugely racist against all minorities here.
-In Switzerland, consturction of minarets were banned. A ridiculous ban, yet won a majority vote. It is like a muslim country banning crosses of David stars, or banning construction of churches.
-The True Finns party opposes " same-sex marriage, same-sex adoption and in vitro fertilization given to same-sex couples and single women".
-I don't even need to speak about Golden Dawn. A terrorist organization rather than a party, that is.
I live in a country which is ruled by "Conservatives" and the main opposition is "Nationalists" And I tell you, from first hand account, no degree of right is worth it.
And FYI, I never pulled nazism card, it wasn't even on my mind.
Who was that comment aimed at? Looks as if someone made a comment under yours and you replied to it, then the comment you replied to got deleted.
was aimed at my comment I deleted it after writing since I realized I didn't actually want to debate with him.
There will always be fringe groups rising up in retribution against whatever is the primary political force, at the slightest annoyance with them and provided the right opportunity to exploit such feelings. However the difference with it either being left or right is that generally even when the left goes mad they don't threaten to kill you for being a degenerate or something and at best threaten some measure of freedom when people are scared; almost always failing.
I could never side with the right beyond being fair-weather friends in such uniting causes as #GamerGate, formed by mostly leftists anyways. The inherent divisive nature of nationalism makes them, in a broad sense, toxic to globalism and the purveyors of corporatism. If given the choice, I rather fight those drunk on visions of the future than those who are terrified of it.
Let them win, that'll be the biggest blow to their cause, as in actually be in a position to fix things. Either they succeed in fixing the issues and become less far right, or they keep their far rightness and fails in fixing the issues.
The reason they're getting popular is that they give some group the people to blame for all their problems. Europeans like to make fun of Serbia for their removal of kebab, but it seems like Western countries are becoming that way now. Bad economy because of Jews and immigrants, Muslims becoming more violent every year because they're inherently intolerant, etc.
Send them to gulag.