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In the following article, I refute atheist arguments and establish theism as a logical view-point.

Posted by KnightofEquulei on Mar 24th, 2012

This article has mainly been created in response to the atheist commentors in the Rational Faith article. These atheists found fault with the scientific method which does away with the atheism theory. The scientific method is as follows:

Step One: Sit down.
Step Two: Wish for something to be created in front of you from nothing.
Step Three: Keep wishing.
Step Four: Accept that something cannot be created from nothing. It's illogical and impossible.

Atheism is the belief that this universe randomly and spontaneously exploded into existence from nothing. Such belief defies logic and common sense. The universe was never always here as science has proved and as science has proved that something cannot come from nothing, the logical conclusion is that a eternal, everlasting, all-powerful, timeless and infinite being was behind the creation of the universe.

---

What was the atheist response to this? The atheist response to this was that this also applied to God. Instead of the atheist conjuring up a counter argument to this (they couldn't because it did away with their theory) they applied it to God. Let's begin with debunking their argument:

The Big Bang theory says that the universe had a beginning and therefore was created. The theory was actually first proposed by a Catholic Priest, astronomer and professor of physics called Georges Lemaître. The theory has vast evidence and is now widely accepted by all. The proof of an expanding universe also supports the theory. The Big Bang theory actually agrees with Genesis in that everything was created and certain atheist scientists actually rejected the The Big Bang theory when it was first proposed because it implied creation. The Big Bang theory - and the evidence for it - does away with the atheist theory that the universe always existed.

The atheists still won't accept that God is the more logical idea than the idea of creation out of nothing. They say that like the universe, God couldn't have always existed but they miss one major fact:

TIME WAS CREATED WITH THE UNIVERSE.

What does this mean? This means that there's no such thing as time beyond the universe. There's no beginning, no middle and no end. Whatever is beyond the universe is timeless and has always existed and will always exist whether the atheist likes it or not. The idea of time is that there's a beginning, a middle and an end. So where there is no such thing as time, beginnings, middles and ends cannot exist. God is beyond the universe (since he created it) and therefore doesn't exist in time and space. He is timeless, infinite and endless. He had no beginning.

What's the atheist response to this?

Atheist: "Maybe the same can be said for the universe!" 

WRONG! As explained above, THE BIG BANG THEORY SAYS THAT THE UNIVERSE HAD A BEGINNING - IT WAS CREATED. SCIENCE DISAGREES WITH THE ATHEIST.

Anything beyond time doesn't need a creator because it doesn't have a beginning. The only other counter attack the atheist now has is this:

Atheist: "Who said that whatever is behind the universe is God? It could have been a dumb and unconscious force that formed into the universe or produced it somehow."

Unlikely. Dumb and unconscious forces do not produce mechanisms which work in harmony with one another. Dumb and unconscious forces do not produce order. We observe death, life, rebirth and recycling in this universe. When a star dies and a supernova happens, nebula is often produced. Nebula goes onto give birth to more stars. There we observe death equaling more life. Stars are also one of the greatest forces in this universe and contain greater gravitational pull than any planet. Is it a coincidence that the source that grows our crops, keeps us warm and gives us light also holds us in orbit around it? No. To say otherwise would simply be ignorant and stupid. Unconscious, dumb and accidental forces will not create such order by accident. We can observe unconscious and dumb forces in this world such as tornadoes which only leave death and destruction in their wake. This does away with the atheist argument of an unconscious force producing the universe. If this was the case, the universe would probably have no gravity, no order and no harmony. Chaos rarely - if at all - produces anything of worth. It's more logical to believe that this force was intelligent and PURPOSELY created the universe and us.

Here are some sites on The Big Bang theory:

Science.nasa.gov 

The night sky presents the viewer with a picture of a calm and unchanging Universe. So the 1929 discovery by Edwin Hubble that the Universe is in fact expanding at enormous speed was revolutionary. Hubble noted that galaxies outside our own Milky Way were all moving away from us, each at a speed proportional to its distance from us. He quickly realized what this meant that there must have been an instance in time (now known to be about 14 billion years ago) when the entire Universe was contained in a single point in space. The Universe must have been born in this single violent event which came to be known as the "Big Bang." 

Science.nationalgeographic.com

A Belgian priest named Georges Lemaître first suggested the big bang theory in the 1920s when he theorized that the universe began from a single primordial atom. The idea subsequently received major boosts by Edwin Hubble's observations that galaxies are speeding away from us in all directions, and from the discovery of cosmic microwave radiation by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson. 

Big bang proponents suggest that some 10 billion to 20 billion years ago, a massive blast allowed all the universe's known matter and energy-even space and time themselves-to spring from some ancient and unknown type of energy. 

Notice that the second site says that space and time themselves were created with The Big Bang. The same site mentions the BEGINNING of the universe. Once again, the atheist's argument of God being created is done away with. God existed before the universe and would have to had to, to have created it. Science has shown us that the universe had a beginning, time had a beginning and that anything out of the universe would be timeless. Atheism now has no legs to stand on. Science is against it.

What's the atheist's response now? They won't try to debunk the argument because it CAN'T be debunked. They will either try to turn the argument around without defending their debunked atheism theory or they will say this:

Atheist: "How are you sure that this god is the Christian God."

Irrelevant. This article is discussing atheism and not proof of the Abrahamic God. Atheism is still debunked and Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, Christians and all others who believe in a god or gods agree. Proof for the Abrahamic God can be found through the archaeological evidence supporting events from The Bible. Proof can be found in the countless miracles attributed to the name of Jesus and the growth of Christianity in Rome where it was once persecuted. Christianity arose fast and quick because the people witnessed miracles. Christianity is the largest religion in the world and the early adherents must have been so sure of their faith to sacrifice their lives for it as they were torn limb from limb by lions in the Roman arenas. This is all irrelevant though and I know that the atheist - with no argument to defend their destroyed belief - will now nitpick and probably focus on this last section.

Atheism is so senseless & odious to mankind that it never had many professors. Can it be by accident that all birds beasts & men have their right side & left side alike shaped (except in their bowells) & just two eyes & no more on either side the face & just two ears on either side the head & a nose with two holes & no more between the eyes & one mouth under the nose & either two fore leggs or two wings or two arms on the sholders & two leggs on the hipps one on either side & no more? Whence arises this uniformity in all their outward shapes but from the counsel & contrivance of an Author? Whence is it that the eyes of all sorts of living creatures are transparent to the very bottom & the only transparent members in the body, having on the outside an hard transparent skin, & within transparent juyces with a crystalline Lens in the middle & a pupil before the Lens all of them so truly shaped & fitted for vision, that no Artist can mend them? Did blind chance know that there was light & what was its refraction & fit the eys of all creatures after the most curious manner to make use of it? These & such like considerations always have & ever will prevail with man kind to believe that there is a being who made all things & has all things in his power & who is therfore to be feared. --- Isaac Newton

Post comment Comments
Ten10dix
Ten10dix Mar 25 2012, 6:08am says:

Rofl, I've already agreed with you on much of this apart from one single thing: How the hell do you know God even exsists? I know theres an article on this, which I will post in, but if God does not exsist he cannot of exsisted before time (will you stop going on about that? I never actually said you were wrong about the Universe and Time being created at the same time lol).

As long as there is no concrete proof that God exsists, your theory is just that: A theory and not at all more logical then the others.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Yuribeard7
Yuribeard7 Mar 25 2012, 8:11am replied:

We know God exists based on our experience.

+1 vote     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Mar 25 2012, 8:53am replied:

As Yuribeat5 said, there are many Christians - myself included - who have all had a personal experience showing us God is real. I myself have experienced miracles and they have been too many to be coincidence. I don't expect you to believe me or even trust me here but you asked and I told you.

Miracles aside and how could you even believe that the world and the universe do not have a designer? The world and the universe are beautiful. The songs of the birds are wondrous. The design and makeup of DNA is complex and marvelous and the human body itself is a wonder. Music speaks to the soul and like nearly everything else on this world, is built up from something (there are 7 musical notes).

DNA is structured similar to a computer code which we know has a creator. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING on this earth has unique and individual DNA. This itself is amazing.

The human body works similar to a computer with a CPU (brain) controlling everything. Like a computer, the human body also repairs itself through the form of cells and has a defense system through the white blood cells (firewalls?). Skin is repaired when torn and bones reform stronger when broken.

+5 votes     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Mar 25 2012, 8:54am replied:

It's been a long time since I researched about plants but I believe that even they have a rather complex system consisting of a "brain" cell that controls everything.

The brain itself is a wonder. It's the most powerful tool in existence.

And why is it that we have ALL THE TOOLS AND RESOURCES needed to cure ALL illnesses? We have the resources needed for technology and even space travel. Concerning illnesses, I personally believe that cures for all illnesses exist but many just haven't been found yet but as we progress, we find cures. We now have better fighting chances against illnesses such as cancer and one day, medicine and treatments will be discovered which give people a 100% chance.

If my memory serves me correct, there's a certain chemical in stars and if a star had any less or a little bit more of this chemical than is the needed amount, it wouldn't produce the needed elements for life. Is that a coincidence? If memory serves me correct, most stars have the same measurement of chemicals too (71% hydrogen and 27% helium). Is that coincidence?

The sun plays a part in producing oxygen as do the plants and trees on earth. They work in harmony with one another like a mechanism.

The atheism theory requires as much blind faith as many religious people often give to their faiths. You have to believe in coincidences. Coincidences are possible but do the statements above sound like coincidences to you? They don't to me.

Atheists were around in Ancient Greece as philosophers and other philosophers debated against them with similar arguments that I use. Belief in God isn't because of fear of the unknown or due to humans placing a place holder on the unknown, it's because the universe looks designed and the things in it work like they've been purposely constructed too.

I refuse to believe the earth and universe popped up for no reason just like I refuse to believe that the computer I am using popped up for no reason. All three had a creator.

+5 votes     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Mar 25 2012, 9:51am replied:

Final note:

Most things occur for a reason. Coincidences are unlikely especially on a scale where things work perfectly. God is the best theory and more logical one too.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Sarge_Rho
Sarge_Rho Apr 12 2012, 8:41am replied:

Incorrect. Coincidences happen all the time, all across the universe. It is pure coincidence that you have the genes you have. It is pure coincidence that the Earth is where it is, and of the composition that it is. It's pure coincidence that the universe exists.

-4 votes     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Apr 13 2012, 9:58pm replied:

Incorrect Helge129. Nice go at creating a straw-man argument though.

Your logic: "Everything is a coincidence despite showing design."

If I say the opposite your entire argument is thrown out of the window because I say so and according to your logic I win by default.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Ten10dix
Ten10dix Mar 25 2012, 10:38am says:

If my theory requires as much blind faith as your one, why is your one more logical?

Like I said, if there was billions and billions of different Universes before ours, each able or not able to support life, then our one could just be one of many that can support life. Maybe its 1 in a googleplex? Or maybe one in 100 googleplexes? Who knows?

But a timeless being in which we have no proof of his exsistance is much too far fecthed.

-1 votes     reply to comment
Yuribeard7
Yuribeard7 Mar 25 2012, 12:07pm replied:

What you just stated is more farfetched than anything else. God is more plausible than what you just said.

+1 vote     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Mar 25 2012, 5:23pm replied:

I never said mine required blind faith. I said that your theory shows just as much blind faith as some religious people often give to their faith.

You say there were billions and billions of universes before ours but what created them? Were they all just random coincidences too? You do realize that the chain would have to be never ending?

That timeless being does have proof. I already gave it. Did you not read my above comments about the structure of DNA and complexity of it? Random accidents do not lead to the complexity that we observe and there's no way that a random accident could produce the resources needed to cure all human illnesses.

Care to explain why DNA is structure similar to a computer code?

Allaboutscience.org

"It wasn't until mid-2001, that the Human Genome Project and Celera Genomics jointly presented the true nature and complexity of the digital code inherent in DNA. We now understand that each human DNA molecule is comprised of chemical bases arranged in approximately 3 billion precise sequences. Even the DNA molecule for the single-celled bacterium, E. coli, contains enough information to fill all the books in any of the world's largest libraries."

Biotechnologyonline.gov.au

"DNA from all living organisms is made of the same sugar and phosphate molecules and the same four bases. Whether DNA is in your cells, those of a cactus, of a worm or a bacterium, it is made of the same chemicals and has the same structure."

Atheism debunked again. What further evidence do you need?

+4 votes     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Mar 25 2012, 5:28pm replied:

But will you now say that DNA being perfectly made and structured exactly alike in all creatures is coincidence too? Okay then. See that computer you're using? No one made it. Your parents? No one made them either. The house you're in? It popped up and had no creator. The Last Supper painting? Da Vinci painted it? LIAR! It popped up out of nowhere.
:)
Prove me wrong. If you argue against my statement about DNA, you will have to accept the above statements.

Just because you don't see the creator doesn't mean that the creator doesn't exist. We know our computers were created by a creator because of their structure, order and design. Likewise, DNA gives us the same example.

Yourgenome.org

"DNA's code is written in only four 'letters', called A, C, T and G. The meaning of this code lies in the sequence of the letters A, T, C and G in the same way that the meaning of a word lies in the sequence of alphabet letters. Your cells read the DNA sequence to make chemicals that your body needs to survive."

Too complex to be an accident. I'm sorry. I truly am but you have a creator who very much loves you. I know it might be too hard to accept at first but it's true. Join us. Let us worship and adore him together for eternity!

+5 votes     reply to comment
Adenn`Verda
Adenn`Verda Mar 27 2012, 4:05pm says:

You do realize that all your posting is in vain right?

0 votes     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Mar 28 2012, 10:22am replied:

Aye. Just like all those quotes, images and articles in your atheist group are in vain too. Didn't you know that the majority of life is vanity too? Everything you earn or achieve counts for nothing in the end anyway. What you achieved has been achieved before and what you have earned has been earned before. Riches, women, love...none of it matters in the end anyway.

I really don't get your point. Posting articles such as these is just as vain as everyone modifying games.

+4 votes     reply to comment
D.6
D.6 May 8 2012, 9:17pm says:

I find many of your posts very interesting and I agree with you on almost everything. Especially in this article. However, I seem to think of time as more of a concept that we created, not something that is actually real. This is demonstrated by the peculiarities in 'our' time once you leave Earth.

Also I loved your prior comment, so very true.

+3 votes     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei May 9 2012, 1:37pm replied:

Time is a strange and funny thing. That's all I can say.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Westonbirt
Westonbirt May 10 2012, 6:13pm says:

"Atheism is the belief that this universe randomly and spontaneously exploded into existence from nothing."

No. Atheism is saying : "I had no compelling evidence for God. And taking things on faith is not the path to knowledge".

And when it comes to what there was before the Big Bang... We don't care. What happened before the Big Bang did not affect what happened after. But anyway, even if you disprove the Big Bang theory, it does not mean by default that Goddidit.

+1 vote     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei May 10 2012, 6:27pm replied:

Sorry but that is the atheism belief. You deny God and yet state that other theories like spontaneous and random chances or something coming from nothing are likely and yet down-right deny God while placing your belief on random chance and coincidences. You have to have faith to believe that coincidences can create all the order and design we can see.

I'm still waiting for someone to prove these things:

+That something can come from nothing.
+That The Laws of Thermodynamics are wrong.
+The The Law of Cause and Effect is wrong.
+That chaos produces order, balance and design.
+That symmetry can be the product of a blind and lifeless energy.

Logic is in favor of God and you clearly haven't read the article otherwise you would know that I believe in The Big Bang theory which states that the universe had a beginning and The Laws of Thermodynamics states that it couldn't have existed forever. Therefore at some point there was creation. The question is, was this creation due to some unconscious energy or rather due to an energy force with a mind?

I know which I'm going with.

+1 vote     reply to comment
KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei Jun 14 2012, 4:18pm says:

I'm STILL waiting for someone to prove these things:

+That something can come from nothing.
+That The Laws of Thermodynamics are wrong.
+The The Law of Cause and Effect is wrong.
+That chaos produces order, balance and design.
+That symmetry can be the product of a blind and lifeless energy.

+2 votes     reply to comment
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