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Debates, Discussions, & Presentations

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A collection of the debates, discussions, and presentations of well renowned outspoken Atheists.

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Adjective hijackers, professional victims, and a sexist's idea of an 'equality' movement. As the saying goes in the Imperium, "Heresy grows from idleness...

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Cyborg_Putin
Cyborg_Putin

Hello there, long time no see eh guys? Hope you are all doing great :)

So during the last couple of days I have been pretty interesting in studying the origin of figures such as Satan, Lucifer and the Devil and I have found some pretty fascinating stuff that could be of interest to most of you.

First of all, I think it's important to note that most of the things that we are taught about these figures is entirely wrong, Satan and Lucifer are not evil beings, waiting in hell to burn you alive and make you sufffer for all eternity, in fact, Lucifer and Satan are not even names: Lucifer for example, derives from a process of translations of hebrew, greek and latin, and it originates from "halal" which in hebrew means "to shine" and it's mostly attributed to the light that celestial bodies emit. A derived form of halal, helel, is used in Isaiah 14:12 (which is commonly translated as Lucifer), in this passage the prophet Isaiah is addressing the king of Babylon but calls him Lucifer in the KJV and Vulgate, however if we look at the Septuagint, Lucifer is not used, but rather εωσφορος (eosfóros), this word is very important, because in many greek texts is used to reference Venus, The Morning Star! Here a mistake was made, because it gives the idea that this helel is a person and it isn't, what Isaiah was saying is just a metaphor he used with the king of Babylon and referencing how his kindom has descended to decadence because of the lust of power and wealth. In other words, what was once a metaphor in previous versions of the Bible, was interpreted as something literal and the translators of the Septuagint couldn't help to associate helel with εωσφορος (Venus), finally when the Vulgate was written Lucifer was used, derived from two latin word, lux (which means "light") and the verb fero (which means "to bring") as a replacement for Venus, that's also why we usually call Lucifer as The Morning Star.

Satan on the other hand is just a title, not a name, which means "adversary" and it's not the same as The Devil (adversary of God), the angel that rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. The Devil is usually represented as ugly and fearsome with horns and all that crap, however he should be quite the opposite, considering he was an angel of the highest rank he can be considered beautiful and graceful.

And finally, in my opinion, all this battle between God and The Devil (good vs evil, heaven vs hell, order vs chaos, etc) it's just a bunch of lies, taking a closer look at the story of The Devil, he just decided to rebel against God, not because he hated him or something else, rather because he wanted to reach individuality, something that you can't achieve if you bow to a higher being and constitute part of a community that does the same and thinks the same as you do, therefore The Devil is an outcast by nature, he receives punishment and is sent out of Heaven, this is the way it is supposed to be and we can see this happen in real life, society doesn't like strangers or someone who doesn't follow the norms that are stablished and when a Devil comes to spoil the equilibrium he's treated as an outcast and is often humiliated and insulted... it's not aboult morality it's about different ideals.

All in all, what's important is to understand that Lucifer and Satan are not the things we were taught they were, they are not the same, they are not evil, they aren't even names and the way they are depicted today is the result of ignorance and misinterpretation and any worshiping or following that these figures get from Satanists goes against the very nature of The Devil.

There's a lot of things I could add but I don't want to make this comment longer than it already is lol, I skipped some important points but I think the main idea is there, sorry for my English I know it's not perfect and excuse any dumb misspellings I could have commited :P.

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

Hi !

I think you are a kickass man , Cyborg_Putin and this stuff might be right although finding power on your own might take you far longer than the power you can receive if you serve a higher being

I for one find it better to surrender my will to a higher power
Never Lucifer and Satan or their group of course but more like the likes of Cthulhu , Yig , Yog Sothoth , Nyarlahotep and so on
The oldest , the powerful-est

Not against the Hells but neither on their side
Of course the Heavens have immense power too but it's not easy to work with them

I think all gods are gangsta and cool but nobody should be forced to abide to one neither forced not to

* puts palm on lips with a big eyes expression * Oh my ! The christian people are going to go crazy about what you said hahah

Anyway i think you are just unearthing secrets of indoctrination perpetrated for so much time like 2016 years and pending - exactly the stuff i like doing too !!

So , i think i like how you think because you are a cultivated man

Btw i think Venezuela is a beautiful country but so controversial

Just placing opinion here , nothing else

My salute to you all

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CureOptimism
CureOptimism

I'm not sure if bending knee to a fictional horror character such as Cthulhu is more insane, or less insane than bending knee to a 2000 year old fictional horror character such as the Christian God.

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

None of them are fictional and nobody becomes insane if they bend knee to either of them or to the fictional Satan or to the fictional Science

One has to learn to not give a damn about other people's choices already ! Hahah

Live and let live Mr. Cure and NO i will never become an atheist myself nor accept it , to answer your silent thought question .

But i can talk with you people , even be friends with you people , even share stuff like good music too but without having to be a fan of Satan or Atheism myself right ? If i cannot , then that is alright

I like talking with you anyhow

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Necrolifer
Necrolifer

I am seriously starting to think you are slowly descending into insanity.
Bloodborne much?
Cthulhu is not fictional? Hell,I would surely love hearing his inhuman,eldritch growls,but what the actual ****!
Believing in Jesus but also in Cthulhu! Man,what a combo!
Sorry,the group has no place for insanity but only reason and lucidity.

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CureOptimism
CureOptimism

Cthulhu isn't a fictional character?

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

" I am seriously starting to think you are slowly descending into insanity "

That's why you guys " love " me so much , baby hahah
Cthulhu will save the world :D I think what Lovecraft said in his works is true .
I have the right to believe in what i want and you won't be able to stop me

Unfortunately i don't own consoles so i could not play Bloodborne but i would have loved to
I'm happy that you can . Fight them all for me Necro !

Mr.Cure , unless someone can prove completely that these things are not true then they are true until that day

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CureOptimism
CureOptimism

By that logic we should take the mad ramblings of a paranoid schizophrenic's delusions seriously since we can't definitively prove him wrong. Believing in God or Jesus is one thing, but there are people alive who witnessed the inception of the character Cthulhu.

This is that age old unfalsifiable hypothesis argument. You can believe in a fictional horror character if you wish, you can believe in Freddy Kreuger and Jason Voorhees too as long as you don't mind me thinking it's beyond silly and borders on crazy.

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

What determines what is right or wrong ? The rules of a God , the rules of humans or imaginary things , present age currents of belief , the dream we had last night or the last song we listened ?

You are a smart man but you do not understand perspective from a movable angle , much less i suspect you might not understand thinking in a more than uni or bidimensional form .

You only see things from an immutable angle and perspective that you cermoniously declare to be the sole , most sensible , most sane choice that we should somehow follow as well , all of us if possible right ? Thing that i find delusional in itself in some form given that each and every person is in full right and self capacity of deciding what is best for own self and not others deciding for us , no matter the type of choice we make

Not needed for especially the kinds of persons that do not ask advices from others nor are looking for shepherds but just discovery of things more than commonly known , for the purpose of surpassing own boundaries dictaded by our neighbours , our society and the current age dictons of servility

While stagnation more than needed actually breeds ignorance , breeds weakness , breeds delusions of grandeur that are not achievable anymore and in extreme cases become amusing , turning the person in question into an amusing type of person along the way , because one has remained still trying to wake up the dead donkey that was once rotting flesh , now a skeleton

You are an intelligent , well mannered and cultivated man CureOptimism but too faint-hearted regarding things beyond own carapace of self preservation built upon ownself , in the same time trying to imitate the fabled ostritch that which sticks his head in the sand thinking that if his eyes does not see the danger he will be entirely safe while his body remains in the open jaws of the danger that might befall him

Heck ! If it would be so simple to make something disappear by just denying it i would tomorrow try to convince myself that poverty doesn't exist , money doesn't exist , famine doesn't exist and everything that i hate and that i'm actually inside a heavenly idylic place where everything is alright and there is no pain and struggle

It will never work ! I choose instead to face the problem , to believe even more than people or society tells me , to take more for serious things than suggested to be taken for serious and to attempt to wrestle " the Kraken " , not hide from it

Actually is fun talking with you or with a well spoken person for that matter Mr.Cure


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Necrolifer
Necrolifer

You are actually quite delusional,you know that?
You try to justify those ramblings of yours by saying things like "You think from a bidimensional angle" , "Until you can prove that entity exists,let's just believe in it" . I'm sorry,what?
You think you are this unique,shiny independent snowflake by challenging other opinions and views,but actually your surreal beliefs turn against you as even a child knows that those ramblings are plain science fiction...
Atheism is also about accepting the limitations of life and also accepting it as it is. Life can be improved! With or without some ethereal sky daddy or some terrifying multi-tentacled creature out there in space.
So much nonconformity on your part,eh?

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

The most delusional person is you actually
I got nothing to justify to anyone , much less to you
I may not be unique but i'm willing to try to be unique and not just a clone like everybody else . You are unique for instance , just like everybody else
What child ? Children until indoctrined by schools are actually better at perceiving reality than adults do

I don't want to accept any limitations of life at all . At least a religion promises me that there is a way out of a mortal limited life while atheism just locks my mind into a cage . You can attempt to scream against my words in a surreal , eldritch way even , my views will never be changed and i'm still surprised that you care about how i think when i thought that you got over it . Not enough being a child ?

" Boo hoo hoo , that bad polytheist girl does not like how we think and i don't like how she thinks . Let me listen a new song and cry bad trying to cut my wrist maybe nataS or someother fancy dark being will give me powers over her next time "

Hahahahahahahah

I see no life being improved at all but getting from bad to worse . I tell you how life will be improved , it will be improved when truly everyone will be left alone to be how they feel and not opressed or persecuted for it by no one , nothing anymore

I actually came here to talk with Cyborg_Putin not to bash or pick on atheism , so i still fail to see how you justify your comments more than being delusional attacks that ramble about the same conformist crap i remember you about that is really boring and not interesting at all

I remember you once told me there is more than what i know to life and i remember asking you to prove it to me .
You can still do it , Necro but i bet you got nothing , or nothing good to prove to me anyway

Go serve your satan and your atheism which might be the same thing heh and let me work with what i want . Only satan would persecute me , not allowing me what to think and believe in other than him so let's cut the crap . I'll never be on your side , the hells side or atheism side but i can tolerate you without picking on you or attacking you in all the comments trying to convince you that what you're doing is delusional and ****

Is obviously only your persistent choice to remain my enemy while i am open for friendship even

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CureOptimism
CureOptimism

You don't understand, I assume neither of us give a **** about whether or not you believe in a divine power that sustains life on the planet and eternally watches over all of our human activities. You can wax philosophical about how I'm close-minded and how the world would be a better place if we all just accepted one another. That's not the issue. The issue is that you claim to believe in fictional characters from fictional material like the Cthulhu mythos. That's like if I worshiped Cap'n Crunch. You can see why that's utterly bewildering and perturbing to us? It's a character that's not even a hundred years old yet.

And please, don't try to mistake the candor of my words with outright hatred or contempt. I'm not some proselytizing atheist blowhard. I just think it's not healthy to believe fictional characters who are universally accepted as not real. This is an entirely different ballpark than God.

Also we only worship Satan on Sundays.

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

I'm sorry if i upset your sensibilities but the Stone God is offended by the increased level of F's given regarding my choices from you and the Tragic Prince that i both of you hold dear to my heart , in a twisted way

What Lovecraft speaks about are entities that are older than all Hells and Satan , this is why they are called Old Ones . They represent an unknown , unbreached yet potential history of planet Earth that which i am interested in quite much

I don't worship them , i acknowledge them . It's a difference
As much as someone for instance acknowledges and is convinced Gray aliens exist but that does not mean that person worships them

I chose to give a shot that more than meets the eye in reality exists while you decide to not bother with it . There is no offense to eachother to be had here

PS : I only pray to the Old Ones every night

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Cyborg_Putin
Cyborg_Putin

Thank you for the kind words my friend! It's true what you say, finding power on your own is more complicated, harder and more time consuming, however, I think that at the end of the day it's more worthwhile than any other method you can use. I'll give you an example; believe it or not self-taught guitar players have something that normal guitar players don't, they have their own style, technique and execution, for me that's what really matters, to make of your work something genuine, creative and unique! And for me that can only be achieved with inidividuality :)

But that's my way to achieve this, if you have a different approach that's perfectly fine and that's the way it should be jajajajaja!

On the other hand, my country has seen better days, the crisis here is terrible, probably the worst in our history, things are 30 times more expensive than they were 5 years ago and the fact the we as a country produce nothing (everything here is imported) and the corrupt and inept goverment we have to deal with doesn't help a lot jajajaja! Anyway things will be better in the future, we just need to endure this chaotic process for the time being.

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◭ϞƔϞ◮
◭ϞƔϞ◮

The power of mastering a guitar does not need worship of a diety in the first place anyhow but i get what you mean hahah

All i know is that Venezuela produces a lot of drugs and drug lords and such this is if those movies are for real and it's not just televised crap

Things won't become better until after the system that comes after WW3 that will last little
Let's hope all is going to end up just fine until the 2050's or so

Prices are really bad in Europe too and most can barely afford eating but this is life

Nice talking with you

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λpone Online
λpone

Also, here's a practical reason to support Lucifier: It's heavy-metal as ****

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Cyborg_Putin
Cyborg_Putin

Hell yah! Have you listened "The Satanist" by Behemoth? It's a damn good album if you're into Black Metal lol. Also "Ad Majorem Sathanas Gloriam" by Gorgoroth, dad thang is heavy m8 D:

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CureOptimism
CureOptimism

If you like Gaahl-era Gorgoroth, be sure to check out God Seed: Youtube.com

And Trelldom: Youtube.com

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Necrolifer
Necrolifer

You're into black metal?
Much love,holmes!
Satanism should be about self-perfection and individuality,rebellion and not conformity.
Many people these days brand themselves satanists,as if they try to find ways to release their inner angst and prove how evil and hardcore they are...

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Cyborg_Putin
Cyborg_Putin

Yes I am my dear friend!

I didn't like the genre at first but I listened to a couple of tracks by Burzum and slowly got into it, as of now it's one of my favorite genre in music, you won't find that black metal-ish sound anywhere else :). I personally love bands like Taake, Behemoth, Gorgoroth, Mayhem, Amon Amarth and early In flames, however if I would have to choose between black metal or blackened metal... I wouldn't know which one to choose :P

On the other hand, what does it meant to be satanist? Does it mean to follow the Devil as a chirstian would follow God? Or be part of a specific philosophy or doctrine? My answer? None of those, if you brand yourself as a satanist you're going against the very meaning of individuality and rebellion, I think you should be your own Satan and challenge yourself to create new ideologies and doctrines, lead and not follow, be original and don't imitate, that's what individuality means. If anything the term satanic should be a virtue, just like intelligent or charismatic and not a way to brand yourself as part of something, it should be applied to individuals who don't follow any form of established doctrine.

Again sorry for my bad English :P

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