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How close to release? (Games : Vector Thrust : Forum : General Discussion : How close to release?) Locked
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SlyAceZeta
SlyAceZeta Master Raccoon Thief
Jun 5 2014 Anchor

Iceberg wrote: Vector Thrust is coming Q2 this year to PC on Steam.

There are 25 days left in Q2. I'm aware that the game is going onto Early Access, but how close are we to that? Or are we going to have to call "delayed game"?

I ask because I'm heavily losing interest - all I see anymore are the occasional updates or screenshots from MyHatIsMyFriend on ModDB or Wheaton on Skype, and I've been playing a ton of Ace Combat Infinity. That, and I keep seeing or hearing that the game is not going to be anything like what was promised. No fun gameplay, no awesome maps or missions, and just as bad a UI as in the Alpha, just bland everything besides aircraft selection (which, maybe coming as a surprise to some of you, not everyone cares about). Can anyone reassure me on any of this?

Edited by: SlyAceZeta

Jun 5 2014 Anchor

SlyCooperFan1 wrote: No fun gameplay

The last report said the core mechanics were done. I would think this includes things like the command system, AoA, EW, and revisions to the already-implemented stealth system.

no awesome maps or missions

The same report also said the campaign was complete. While specifics aren't given, my guess is it's at least one of the three intended campaigns.

and just as bad a UI as in the Alpha

The latest videos and screenshots show a visual improvement over every aspect in UI, both by menu and in-game.

just bland everything besides aircraft selection

The reports from day one have shown very little that is actually bland. And given Report 48 saying that the core mechanics are complete, I'm sure whatever version is put out for the Early Access release is going to be exponentially less bland compared to the pre-publisher Alpha.

The question is who would be required to create the announcement. If it's the publisher, I don't know what to expect.

Edited by: SpootKnight

Nergal01
Nergal01 I stopped supporting Vector Thrust. AMA.
Jun 5 2014 Anchor

Pretty sure TS once said it'll be released someday after Steam Summer Sale (in order to avoid being buried into obscurity or such, he said).

But if the original intention eventually backfires so much that ends up becomes "Best Game No One Cares of the Year" or worse, laughing stock for simnazifags, I don't know what I'm supposed to say.

Although there's an obviously high chance that the initial release will be *mildly disappointing* for some people...just like Star Citizen's Arena Commander

Edited by: Nergal01

--

anon wrote:

There are only two things in this world worse than Vector Thrust; Star Citizen and No Man's Sky

'anon' wrote: Now I shall use this 'Vector Thrust Threshold' to measure how awful your product is

MyHatismyFriend
MyHatismyFriend Synchronized Drowning Expert
Jun 5 2014 Anchor
User Posted Image

I guess I'll leave this here.

As of now, I'm still pretty sure that the game is slated for a Q2 release, but TS hasn't told me anything about pushing back the date. Our main development priorities now are finishing off the challenges required for each aircraft family. It's a lot of work, and it's a hole that we've dug ourselves into, but that's that.

Indeed, core mechanics are done. From what I've been able to pull out, all core features promised in earlier reports are fully functional and in-game, (The F-15Z will confuse you with electronic doppelgangers, etc.), the UI is more or less fully finished and customisable as per your request, with options for changing normal states, warning states, allied colours, neutral colours and enemy colours. In essence it's more or less an Ace Combat HUD which works like it should and doesn't get in the way.

User Posted Image

Spoot said something about the campaign being completed. Weeeeeeelll, it said it was IN, but we're still waiting on TS to complete the final mission for the Alpha Campaign rework. Iceberg told us to have about half of the next campaign in the Early Access release, and that's done, but we need to revise the lines and add in more for the latter missions. So in total, the campaigns in Early Access will be a complete rehaul of Alpha Campaign by me with new story and final mission, plus half of a new campaign by TS, making for a total of 16 missions.
Gameplay-wise, AoA mode and a very cool buff to the gun's damage (think slightly less than AC6? Guns are particularly effective in head-on attacks.) plus improved Ace AI makes for very fun one-on-one matches in my opinion- the Ace AI knows how to toggle AoA on and off and will try to exploit it to its fullest to gain the drop on you. Grunt AI brings back the classic Ace Combat/AFDS gameplay experience by being a total piece of shit when it comes to dodging missiles- but still know how to position themselves and take potshots at you with SP weapons. SAMs and AA guns poise genuine threats, and given that the game is permanently set to Hard/Ace mode by AC standards you'll probably spend a lot of the time dancing around.

There have been around 8-10 new maps added? Not too sure.

TS agreed that our hilariously large amount of aircraft will eventually be diversified after release by not only differences in electronic and aerodynamic performance but also dynamic weaponry differences. For example, the F-15A might carry 2 XMAAs per salvo, the F-15C pushes this to 4, and the F-15J or something will bump that up to 6. For now though, until we put more weapon variety in there this probably won't be in the Early Access release.

***

The reason why we've pushed back the game so long is that we want to stand out from the Early Access competitors. Most of the games there are half-finished products with the devs going I'LL GET IT DONE SOON I SWARE ON ME MUM THROW MONEY. We want to say: "Hey, this is our game. It's not done yet, but everything important is more or less there. Which one do you want first- Takeoff/Landings or Cockpit view?" And with the screenshot at the top, I can assure you that there will be some pretty rad missions coming soon.

It seems that I've pigeonholed myself into the PR dude (I tried to get into the hilariously bad FB page but Iceberg was like gtfo), so if you have any questions about the game, you can hit me or TS up with a PM or a post here.

Nergal01
Nergal01 I stopped supporting Vector Thrust. AMA.
Jun 5 2014 Anchor

At least, even as a voluntary PR guy you're still a million times much more competent than that retarded German (?) guy who managed the FB page. Nevertheless, he somewhat still fit well for such kind of demography as Facebook (more or less non-hardcores who asks 'cockpit view pl0x' or 'gib download pl0x' or 'gib insertplanenamehere pl0x').

That's another part I regret of having Iceberg as publisher, but let's say we didn't have other choice.

Edited by: Nergal01

--

anon wrote:

There are only two things in this world worse than Vector Thrust; Star Citizen and No Man's Sky

'anon' wrote: Now I shall use this 'Vector Thrust Threshold' to measure how awful your product is

Jun 5 2014 Anchor

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Spoot said something about the campaign being completed. Weeeeeeelll, it said it was IN, but we're still waiting on TS to complete the final mission for the Alpha Campaign rework. Iceberg told us to have about half of the next campaign in the Early Access release, and that's done, but we need to revise the lines and add in more for the latter missions. So in total, the campaigns in Early Access will be a complete rehaul of Alpha Campaign by me with new story and final mission, plus half of a new campaign by TS, making for a total of 16 missions.

Thanks for the clarification. I had to base my comment on what information I had available on Report 48, even though it might have been limited.

It seems that I've pigeonholed myself into the PR dude

And I appreciate the help you and flyawaynow have given alongside timeSymmetry. I've always been confident that I could get a question about the game answered here. Other than the occasional reveal, FB has been revisiting a lot of older stuff twice over and I can't even imagine what the other followers would think when they see that our ModDB forum is in most cases up to date.

SlyAceZeta
SlyAceZeta Master Raccoon Thief
Jun 5 2014 Anchor

I think I need to rephrase what I meant by UI: Game menus.

I do not know what AoA is (like I said, not everyone here is too familiar with or interested in aviation), and I wasn't aware at all that an AC5/Z-style command system was being implemented. That's actually really good - I hope it works well.

By "awesome maps" I did not mean "campaign," I literally meant "maps" as in battle areas. Water is all good, but I haven't seen any good-looking screenshots of any vibrant terrains.

What I saw of the "challenges" system, courtesy of Wheaton, seemed like the most boring thing ever. "Shoot down these helicopters using only this weapon that can't fire from close range. Good job you have the next aircraft!" "Challenge"?

But I will say that, while nothing no one has said thus far in this thread has changed my mind, what did get me excited was the Command system, that first screenshot from MyHatismyFriend (and thank you for taking up PR duty, you're pretty good at it) and Wheaton telling me that he sat down with TS for an hour and a half to talk about improvements. Honestly, maybe it's because not enough of the game is being shown and you guys are sitting down and working on it more than showing (which is a GOOD thing, believe me; if that's the case, then keep it going because more devs need to do that, and I might just be used to the constant updates from a few months back), or maybe it's because people participating in the closed beta (or close to those participating in it) can actually interact with the new improvements and the rest of us Alpha testers are left in the dust with nothing. Whatever the case, this thread has done very little to help. Just the Command system and that screenshot and Wheaton telling me stuff on Skype reassured me a bit more.

Nergal01
Nergal01 I stopped supporting Vector Thrust. AMA.
Jun 5 2014 Anchor

Game menus.

Ya, the main menu still bland as hell (playable video in main menu plz), but the rest of the menu (from videos and screenshots) are much better now.

I do not know what AoA is (like I said, not everyone here is too familiar with or interested in aviation)

If you played HAWX and its sequel before, it's basically not much different to ASSISTANCE-OFF mode.

What I saw of the "challenges" system, courtesy of Wheaton, seemed like the most boring thing ever. "Shoot down these helicopters using only this weapon that can't fire from close range. Good job you have the next aircraft!" "Challenge"?

I thought TS already ditched that idea and use XP to unlock planes instead?

Edited by: Nergal01

--

anon wrote:

There are only two things in this world worse than Vector Thrust; Star Citizen and No Man's Sky

'anon' wrote: Now I shall use this 'Vector Thrust Threshold' to measure how awful your product is

SlyAceZeta
SlyAceZeta Master Raccoon Thief
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

Nergal01 wrote: If you played HAWX and its sequel before, it's basically not much different to ASSISTANCE-OFF mode.

Yuck.

Nergal01 wrote: I thought TS already ditched that idea and use XP to unlock planes instead?

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Our main development priorities now are finishing off the challenges required for each aircraft family. It's a lot of work, and it's a hole that we've dug ourselves into, but that's that.

Nergal01
Nergal01 I stopped supporting Vector Thrust. AMA.
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

Still better than having one or more challenge for each plane though. Perhaps that's what I'm talking about.

--

anon wrote:

There are only two things in this world worse than Vector Thrust; Star Citizen and No Man's Sky

'anon' wrote: Now I shall use this 'Vector Thrust Threshold' to measure how awful your product is

SlyAceZeta
SlyAceZeta Master Raccoon Thief
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

That is what the challenges system is - one challenge per plane to unlock the next one in the same family. And if it was just one challenge for the entire family, that's worse. There's no "challenge" there.

Jun 6 2014 Anchor

MyHatismyFriend wrote: We want to say: "Hey, this is our game. It's not done yet, but everything important is more or less there. Which one do you want first- Takeoff/Landings or Cockpit view?"


I vote takeoff/landings with scripted elephant walks
*ducks*

MyHatismyFriend
MyHatismyFriend Synchronized Drowning Expert
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

Funny story. TS originally wanted 6 challenges for each aircraft. That basically amounted to over 1200 challenges, all requiring hand input. TS went "lolnope" and decided to procedurally generate them. Cue us trying to shoot down aggressive airliners with bombs. Awesome, yes- but practical? Not really. In the end, TS decided just to make one challenge for each aircraft. I'll agree that they could be more fun, but our options are really limited. What's more to do then evasion, target destruction, or defending an object? You can put how many stupid spins on it as you want, but in the end it all boils down to those three archetypes.

Again, any suggestions you have can be dumped in the Challenge Suggestion thread.

As for maps, I went into the Editor and cooked up some screenshots for you.

User Posted Image

User Posted Image

User Posted Image

User Posted Image

Generally these are shown in sunny day and blue light, but by mucking about in the editor you can produce some snazzy environments to fight in (if the game would bloody save them, at least- TS, the map editor doesn't save fog and colour changes I make ):.) I'll also admit that we do need some cooler terrain features. Stuff like canyons and valleys and caves are almost always necessary for these kinds of games. Wheaton I believe is working on a third-party terrain editor that will be able to assemble new maps with prefabricated 'squares' of terrains, if I remember correctly.

***
About Closed Beta. It's not really a beta persay- all four people who have access to this build are the people who helped out TS in the alpha build- Pavli does the music, Wheaton is now doing modelling and coding, FaN is in charge of voice acting and campaign scripts, and I manage in-game text and proofreading, as well as maintaining the face of Vector Thrust to the general public here. I'm also technically a 'VIP' of Iceberg who apparently gets to know all the cool marketing shit and hurr that they do, but after my initial conversation Iceberg left me in the dust. Vector Thrust is not one of their 'major' projects- right now I think it's a Skyrim RPG thing that they're most concerned about.

In the end, TS does all the heavy lifting- he's only one person so you can't expect the same quality as Project Aces. We try and help out as much as we can and in recent development it seems that he's finally letting us use our abilities to the fullest in these last days of Q2 so that the game gets out as soon as possible, instead of doing everything by himself.

SlyAceZeta
SlyAceZeta Master Raccoon Thief
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

Thing is, I'd prefer an XP bar over 5-minute challenges any day.

Wheaton told me that TS and he talked about working on integrating his map editor into the game as a first-party tool rather than third-party. And I know TS is one guy (and damn talented for one guy), but like I said, it does feel different having no updates anymore aside from your occasional screenshots and short news.

But those maps... are making me drool. That's enough to shut me up. You seriously should have shown those earlier, they're beautiful.

Edited by: SlyAceZeta

Wheaton_Adams
Wheaton_Adams Busy rebuilding Farbanti
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

Someone wrote: Wheaton told me that TS and he talked about working on integrating his map editor into the game as a first-party tool rather than third-party.

This is not what I said. I said TS seemed pleased to hear about it. He didn't mean about actually integrating it in the official release! D:

SlyAceZeta
SlyAceZeta Master Raccoon Thief
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

My apologies, you said two different things and I merged them together in my mind. D:

Wheaton_Adams
Wheaton_Adams Busy rebuilding Farbanti
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

It's not completely off track anyway. TS did see my old mission editor and clearly didn't hide the fact he'd inspire from it to make VT's internal editor. Though, now, the official editor is starting to look good ( albeit very clunky ) so my mission editor is loosing purpose. For maps, though, there is and always will be a need for new, more unique maps no matter what.

Jun 6 2014 Anchor

I am actually interested in the number of planes that are in the game as of now. Last time I heard, it was 200.

And as for maps, I've seen the creator that was posted few weeks(month?) ago.
Is there something else like that planned, or are we getting something more traditional? What I mean by something else, are things like cities in a big mushroom thingy(a la Ace Combat 3), caves and so on and so forth.

Nergal01
Nergal01 I stopped supporting Vector Thrust. AMA.
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

PokerPop wrote: things like cities in a big mushroom thingy(a la Ace Combat 3), caves and so on and so forth.


TS' response on Megafloat:

The project already started.

So, maybe yes.

--

anon wrote:

There are only two things in this world worse than Vector Thrust; Star Citizen and No Man's Sky

'anon' wrote: Now I shall use this 'Vector Thrust Threshold' to measure how awful your product is

Jun 6 2014 Anchor

SlyCooperFan1 wrote: What I saw of the "challenges" system, courtesy of Wheaton, seemed like the most boring thing ever. "Shoot down these helicopters using only this weapon that can't fire from close range. Good job you have the next aircraft!" "Challenge"?

The reason the system is the way it is now has already been explained, but the Challenge system is something I see like character unlocking on Timesplitters: score X in Y time. It's generic, but it's something; something I've gone through in the past so it doesn't bother me all that much.

Honestly, maybe it's because not enough of the game is being shown and you guys are sitting down and working on it more than showing (which is a GOOD thing, believe me; if that's the case, then keep it going because more devs need to do that, and I might just be used to the constant updates from a few months back), or maybe it's because people participating in the closed beta (or close to those participating in it) can actually interact with the new improvements and the rest of us Alpha testers are left in the dust with nothing.

It could very well be that, which was something I commented on in a similar thread. Update delay or change in transparency = expectancy violation. My assumption is that if there was initially lower transparencies, there will also be different initial expectations.

I used the example of Star Citizen in that thread because it is a victim of violating expectations due to the team's high transparency. If any report on the game goes without post longer than a week, mass panic ensues. That same concept of transparency changed drastically with Vector Thrust when the publisher was introduced. Understandably, you know what happens: a thread like this appears.

SlyCooperFan1 wrote:

Nergal01 wrote: If you played HAWX and its sequel before, it's basically not much different to ASSISTANCE-OFF mode.

Yuck.

It really probably isn't the best example to use. There are two videos flyawaynow put on YouTube: "EOS Hunt" and "Tooth and Nail." If you watch them, he disables the AoA limiter on both videos, which is shown by the AoA indicator appearing over the altitude. Vector Thrust's AoA system doesn't have any of the nuisances of HAWX's OFF mode, particularly the horrid camera view and speed limitations. The camera and controls remain exactly as they normally do, except you are now able to perform departed flight.

SlyCooperFan1 wrote: But those maps... are making me drool. That's enough to shut me up. You seriously should have shown those earlier, they're beautiful.

I do believe most of those start to appear in the image gallery starting from April, which even has screenshots of the massive crater map.

Edited by: SpootKnight

Jun 6 2014 Anchor

About this, yesterday I´ve got new info, icebergs told me " July 4". But it was mentioned so briefly that I´m not sure if it is that exact day or around that.

At this point most of the issues have been resolved, the code is clean of blockers and the game is now quite solid, now and then there is a new build introduces a new crash, but everything is being resolved quickly.

About mechanics, today if I got the opportunity to finally polish the AOA to the level I desired. What you all seen in the FAN's was okay (ignoring that it was a F-15C), but some details of the AOA weren't right and lacked some nuances.
The missiles still need adjustments for the countermeasures, but every other gameplay mechanic is completely ready to go.

About content:
At release it will have 17 mission, 6 in one campaign, 10 on another and 1 is the Ziz fight as a battle scenario.

It will have 25~30 maps (I´m not sure the number, and a few new maps will be added in the next weeks)

About the challenge mode, not all aircrafts will have their challenge upon release, this means they can´t be unlocked unless they are in a campaign. (But you can always edit the campaign files.)
There are new mechanics that I want to add to give more variety to the challenges, like collectibles/pick-ups, races and others, but at this point is better to wait the game to be released. I fear that as VT has a lot of interlocking mechanics, it is easy introduce new issues that could prevent the release. So it is better to develop them with time after the release.

Also about aircrafts, it will be released with around 170 aircrafts, others are almost ready to go, but they still need to have some game specs/weapons/animation to be configured. I haven´t counted how may aircrafts are completely modeled and textured but they may be around 250, and a lot more are still in development.
But the ones that will be included, excluding those in the alpha funding, it will be Su-25, Mirage f1, f-35 F-22 and F-14. And the families that were present before will have more units.
The rest of the aircrafts will be added shortly after the release in the following updates.

Speaking about updates, the upload system in steam is instantaneous, so more content or a critical fix can be uploaded at anytime and immediately. To be honest I haven't had the time to see other games in the early access, so I don't know if they do small updates, weekly or something else. I don´t know what works best, but since it is really quick I don´t mind in uploading every two or three days.

Jun 6 2014 Anchor

Personally I enjoy my patches to be quick, but moderate in response time, but hell, it's worked out so far.

Regarding updates, I believe the Alpha funders need their share dealt out. Kick them up from .2 up to .9. It'll be better that way in terms of testing, especially in cases where I'm not sure if its on me or the executable.

I'm still not exactly sure how you're going to do it however; I don't know if Desura allows you to see the ID or account of everyone who bought the ALpha back then, but if it were that easy I suspect you would've already given out the keys that way.

Jun 6 2014 Anchor

My plan: ask desura if is kind enough to send me the list.
But I don't have much hope in that. other possibility is just everyone take print screen of the desura´s client open with the vector thrust. Not very elegant but it should work.

If anyone has any better idea, I´m interested.

In the next meeting with the iceberg I´m going to talk about that and ask for the keys. It would be great if I could immediately give access to the game to all alpha funders, everyone already waited long enough

fastsugar
fastsugar Master of Disaster
Jun 6 2014 Anchor

I don't know how its look from developer side, but from client, to receive a steam key you need to go there www.desura.com/collection , find game on list and click keys. that worked for me with other game. i think you need contact with desura.

MyHatismyFriend
MyHatismyFriend Synchronized Drowning Expert
Jun 7 2014 Anchor

Cooler HAWX-type flares pls

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