News broke today about Diablo 3's brand new player controlled economy allowing players to sell their hard earned loot for gold and cash. This means a few things for players, the first is that there will be no "offline". The entire game will require an active internet connection to make sure that players are not gaming the system, and unfortunately this also means the death of modding for the IP.
Blizzard_FAQ wrote: For a variety of gameplay and security reasons, we will not be supporting bots or mods in Diablo III, and they'll be expressly prohibited by our terms of use for the game.
Expressly prohibited, not just unsupported but illegal by the Diablo 3 ToS. A sad day considering how big and active the Diablo 2 modding community still is. Will we still see new mods and updates for Diablo 2 in-spite of this announcement or will the players merge over to the game similar to the Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 modding scene?
Source: Pcgamer.com
I suppose it is good news for indie developers, with top indie games like Minecraft, Mount & Blade, Amnesia and most others, really focusing on their modding tools. Will be great to see awesome mods continue to come from the community for those games.
There was a lot more news I read from the beta update... I'm extremely disappointed. Not only will they not support lan or mods, which was obvious they are planning on letting people make money off of the game by selling in game items.. Really what stops people from just spamming a bunch of low tier items.. It "was" my most excited game for the past 5 years, but I don't know what to think :\
Wow i was waiting for Diablo 3 for such a long time, i even planned to pre-order it but HELL NO. I am so going to pirate this game. Greedy bastards - ruining the games since beginning of time.
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****? piracy is still stealing.
I'd like a system like "hey i pirated your game, here are fifty bucks, deal with it"
Pirating is stealing, but they are doing wrong first. They are limiting their own product just so that you have to pay them more money, not for any benefit to the customer. They are being bastards, and retaliation is more than appropriate. I won't be buying, or playing this game, because I just can't stand Blizzard anymore. They ruined SC2 with all their crap, trying to keep it pirate free, and make sure they have FULL control over everything. Why can't I have a bit of control over something I purchased, and installed on MY PC?...
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If choosing the colour of my pants independent of your advice is morally pugnacious, I don't know what kind of warped morality you have there. Heck, I don't like Blizzard and their money grubbing one bit, if it is, but I seek the truth regardless of biases, and I conclude thus far that Blizzard has a right to choose if it 'squeezes money out of us' or not. Sure, you're going to point out furiously that my choice of pants colour, and Blizzard's DRM/Online-perpetually policy are false analogies, but they are not: they are personal choices, my choices; they are perfectly harmless, physically and psychologically; both my choice of pants colour and DRM affect people around it: My pants colour could be deemed sacrilegious by a Muslim in some country, an affront to national dignity, in addition to being an eyesore and indicator of deviant personality. But the secular and logical world recognises my right to wear pink pants. Similarly, Blizzard's choice to DRM everything is a great inconvenience to end users; it is not very holy an action, though short of amoral; it is costly, something everyone is very pickled about. But we must similarly recognise, as logical and secular men, that they have a right to make that choice. After all, games are not like rice and water. They are not necessities which every person has a right to.
Someone got his panties in a twist...
You have the right to choose the color of your pants. If you sell pants, the person buying should have the right to color those pants differently. However, you're saying they shouldn't.
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And hey, perhaps you should support the Somali pirates with a small donation of an AK-47. At least they have some moral justification to back their case: They have no food, no money, nothing. To survive, they have to steal from richer countries who have no dire need of the excess money they make except to use it as capital for some venture and make more. Just like you and Blizzard: you steal from the developers, what you should have paid them, and enjoy their sweat and toil and late nights, and all the pressure they suffered at the hands of their art directors and all, free of charge, because they are squeezing money out of you that they have no need for, "as if they need anymore money".
That is the worst analogy for digital piracy, ever.
I WOULD have bought SC2... But there was no LAN :( Which made it not even worth my time. The precise reason I didn't buy C&C4 was because of NO LAN and the ALWAYS active internet connection. Around here you could easily see why that's so laughable. There is no CABLE down the road where I live, our satellite internet goes out when something as simple as the wind blows lol
Sorry Blizzard, maybe next time.
Very true. I payed my hard-earned money for StarCraft 2 just so they can control it? as if they didn't take my funds outta my BattleNet account Already...
piracy is not stealing, it's copyright infringement, that doesn't make it any better, but stealing is defined when you take something away that can't be replaced. When you pirate something you're just downloading a copy of it.
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By definition it is stealing but I assume you're referring to how the law interprets theft and copyright infringement and there even that's debatable (and has been for some time). Self-titled Piracy/Pirates nuff said :)
replacements are made all the blasted time when people pirate. The people will still end up buying the game anyways just to play it. However, Blizzard looks like they're just looking for some quick cash rather than having a long term product. They don't even support their older games unless it is called WoW, since it is the community that has to fix things and make it enjoyable for everyone else.
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that's stupid, of course downloading digital media is stealing. not that i'm saying that there's anything wrong with pirating this, because i will be.
Agreed, piracy is stealing but I couldn't care if it happens to companies that don't even care about its fans. So many companies these days just care about money. Blizzard is one such company and yet some people still support them.
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A company has to make money to survive. Assuming you have a job, do you get a paycheck? Why do you need money? There are altruistic companies like Bosch but they still have to make money to pay employees, maintain buildings, and all that. You wouldn't have your computer or games or 99% of the things you do have if it wasn't for the profit in making and selling them.
Companies CAN make money and STILL care about their fans. Look at Larian Studios or Snowblind Studios. Their developers regularly post on their own forums and even help people if they have problems with their games. Blizzard just care about making money and that's it. They don't give a damn about their customers.
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Blizzard has some of the best customer support of any company I have ever dealt with: All you have to do is pick up the phone and ring them, within 30-60 seconds a real person will be on the other end of the line, speaking to you about your problem. The only company to come close to that is amazon.
Blind Mind Studios is another such company. VALVe aswell, even if they're a little slow on updates sometimes. (although that one is obvious)
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People up voting piracy? You've got to be pretty immature to think stealing a game is okay just because you can't "mod" it or for any reason beyond "Prefer to demo before I buy".
I'm not a huge fan of the decision but to be surprised at companies being "greedy" or rephrased as "want to make more money" is silly as that's usually the point. If you don't like it don't buy it.
do you think blizzard really needs more money? Think about it...
Do you think Activision really WANT more money? Think about it...
Although i hate Activation alot, its not them its their parent company that controls all this money whoring
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So you're saying that developers don't need to get paid? That Blizzard should make free games? I'm not saying I agree with their decisions being a modder for 15 years and not a fan of selling items for $ (which was done long before now in D1 and 2) which has gradually become acceptable by the new generation of gamers (Miss the days when you had to earn it instead of parents buying it for you) heh. I'm always online so the online requirement isn't hurting me but I still agree that it's something easily disliked for obvious reasons. NONE of that excuses piracy. The only good excuse I've ever heard was "Wow, that was a great game, i'm definitely gonna buy it now" demo. Would prefer companies release more demos but like others I don't like to rush in eyes closed and buy a game for $50-60 heh
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Agreed, I'm kind of shocked about both the Blizzard decisions as well as the people saying they are going to pirate a game. Seriously, when did piracy become something that can be justified? While I don't really mind people pirating (it's not directly hurting me) like I've said a lot of times before, I still can't believe the moral standards of today's people are of such a low level. This very behaviour is making me 'dislike' the gaming community more and more, it's just so childish. I mean, no one is forcing you to play games so if you don't think it's worth your money just don't play it.
If a game's sales are hurt by lack of purchases and players, it means that game had features that drove away players. If I game has lack of sales but regular or excess of players, it means that players didn't want to deal with some aspect of getting it through legitimate channels. Either way, if they don't hit their projected mark, they're going to take notice and hopefully get the message. Blizzard has been good to their fan community in the past, and I think they're going to continue trying to do right by them. Personally, I won't even touch Diablo 3 or BF3 for this reason. They aren't worth my time, but everyone supporting piracy in the matter is just looking for an excuse, and easy out of morale standing. Pirates will be pirates, telling them this doesn't justify it won't change their mind.
Before I have to read one more "DEY IZ TRY 2 SQEZE US DRY UV $$$" Consider this: How does removing mod support increase cash flow? Less players = less money. A real money grab move is deciding to charge monthly.
Stop it with this "DA MAN IZ HOLD& ME DOWN" crap. If you don't like a company, STOP BUYING FROM THEM. It's really that simple, nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy **** you don't want.
No they aren't removing modding just for decreasing cash flow, they are removing it so that blizzard can make dlc so they can get more cash. think about it Activision doesn't like modding because they want to cash in on dlc for about 10£ per dlc and they are probably gonna make 2-3 dlc packs which makes about 30£. so if the game costs 60£ then they are going to make about 90£. The thing they fail to see is that modding expands the life time of a game so that people will buy it after launch up to 5-9 years later compared to not having modding which is like 1-2 years after launch.
So lets say that 1000 people buy the game at launch(scaled down ofc) and 900 of them buy ALL the dlc then you have made 87000£ compared to modding where 1250 people buy the game at launch WITH modding then then they've made 75000£ but then people make mods and a community is born where people join for example like 300 people buy the game then they have made 93000£ and counting.
The thing is that Activision is thinking in the short run and not in the long run and they are really not thinking about they're reputation.
Fallout 3 and New Vegas are still doing fine with DLC and modding, long run and short run. This can be chalked up to hype. Blizzard stated that they don't want modding because it will interfere with the market system they're going to have in game, it's easier to only code one market system that requires an internet connection than to code two for both cases. Again, if people don't like it, they shouldn't buy it, there are plenty of other top down multiplayer fantasy games inspired by Diablo that have modding support out of the box. There's no reason anyone needs this one in particular. This isn't about making money, this is about maintaining gameplay. I don't think it's right to do this, so I won't be buying it, but they still have a right to handle their product the way they want to.
Yeah but fallout 3, new vegas, morrowind and oblivion are made by Bethesda not Activision and Activision doesn't have the same business model as Bethesda. It IS easier to code one market system rather than two, but that doesn't mean that it is a good choice it either means that they are being lazy, that the development time should be shorter or a publisher (such as Activision) want stricter control on the game for future plans.
Sure they can handle the game as they want but that doesn't mean that they should and I am pretty sure that Activision wants to earn money from the game and I am also pretty sure that blizzard wants good gameplay, so its a bit of both.
Btw my first comment isn't a pirate-promoting-post.
Heck Fallout 2 and Warcraft 3 are still doing semi-fine because of modding. Homeworld 2 is still being sold for the same reason. Do you see anything like Red Steel or a similar console shooter being capable of pulling that of? (console because of obvious lack of modding capability, not arguing against consoles) Removing it is like setting yourself on fire if you're cold. It works well enough in the short run but you'll be in trouble if all your games are 'burnt out' after a year on the shelf, because game development cycles are usually longer than just one year.
Actually, the modding WILL enhance the market system. If players can sell their own items they created, and I'm talking about skins, character customization will made this way better. Check YMVU, users can mod and create their own items, same in Second Life.
Pirating is the way some people will say: "You know what Blizzard? Playing your game without the item market and no modding won't make it less fun, or will it? Probably yes, because Blizzard wants to take the same formula of WoW into this game.
They're after the money, which is good, but it would be better to let the players enjoy themselves a lot more. Just take a look at Morrowind, modding did not only enhanced graphically that game, it kept it alive and with more content than Oblivion and Fallout 3/New Vegas altogether. Starcraft 2, was boring as hell, there's nothing ******* new on the game and the story is terribly predictable and the world editor is just lame.
Gamers want to have fun, not obey the Big Brother... for that just go buy something from Mac.
This game along with SC2 and WoW made officially stop buying anything from Blizzard, have fun in your one-game-per-year developing ala call of duty.
not 1 person replied like that
"If I game has lack of sales but regular or excess of players, it means that players didn't want to deal with some aspect of getting it through legitimate channels." retard. that's all there is to say. try and figure out why i said that.
because piracy is a way to explicitly show that we don't need to support the company, if you want players to purchase your game, you need to make the decisions with your company that make them want to purchase your game.
you also realize that human slaves in foreign countries have been made to grind on games like WOW to make money for their owners? so who's hitting the grey line of morality now bitch? pirates? or these *******... this is straight up money grubbing corruption
Ok, the decision is a bad one by Blizzard, sure, but if you don't want to support it, don't buy it, don't have the game! If piracy was everyones' "go to" because a commercial games company made a decision that wasn't a HUGE life changing problem but slightly upset them for a while, we'd have a hell of a lot less games to play. I'd rather have a few newer games with no modding support and the myriad of games out there old and new with the support than eventually no big titles being released.
That said, I will not buy this. I will not pirate it either.
More to the point, what exactly is the draw of this title in particular? Why not play any of its umpteen competitors for less than $50? How is brand loyalty benefiting anyone here?
I agree. Diablo 3 doesn't have much going for it, not just for the lack of modding and no offline mode, but the fact that tons of knock offs where created after Diablo 2, some of which are actually pretty good. It's a shame because people do love Diablo 2 so if Diablo 3 sells well they might assume they are doing the right thing by their bad decisions. If it sells badly (which I hope) it will tell them to get the pole out of their *****.
Hell yeah I say F. it and completly ignore the game...
i agree i think its going to be another sacred 2
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This is completely ridiculous. There is absolutely no link between the companies wanting to make more money amorally, stupid pirates who rob developers who paid a hundred thousand pounds for three years in University studying animation and modeling, and slavery in India in farming booths. Go get some help from your history teacher on linking before pooping everywhere.
Actually piracy shows your interest in the game and is misleading. Not purchasing the game however makes a clear point that you're not interested in buying their game. Many "pirates" do so to test the water before jumping in and purchasing a game and most companies while trying to fight back (which leads to the **** everyone's bitching about) are still advised whether rightly so or not that piracy suggests more people are likely to buy their games. You're just using an old excuse that doesn't hold much weight.
It's not hurting you?! Ubisoft's DRM? Diablo's Online-Only? The same COD games over and over? Piracy is PART of the driving force that's making games a crap industry to both work in and buy from.
The players shape the market, and they've shaped it into something they don't like. People fail to think ahead, dish out bad karma and don't think. Nothing will magically fix itself unless you start picking yourself up and asking the question 'why' this is happening. Why is Activision such a cash cow? Why have Blizzard forced out Mod support?
It's the players fault, and accepting that is the first step towards fixing it. Get some humility.
Your living in lala land, piracy has barely affected the video game industry. You can't even find anyway to show if they have lost sales because of it... overall sales have only been getting higher over the years due to a larger population, and more percentage of people getting into video games as it becomes more 'normal' & 'fashionable'.
I also don't understand what 'getting rid of modding support' has to do with stopping piracy. You can never stop piracy, and stuff like draconian DRM is only hurting legitimate customers. The best thing to do is to make a great game with innovative new features, hire good writers ect...
The reason why blizzard has removed mod support is to get their profits through microtransaction. That means losing appeal from the modding community, and decreasing the games longevity, but hopefully make more money.
It's a business decision, pure and simple.
Tatsur0, I see you as a veteran member of this community and I very much respect your opinions and agree with you here. Seeing your post down voted makes me a bit sad.
The way these people approach this announcement is very disappointing.
I'm just shocked by the response. I don't mind being down voted but I'm confused as to why. Do the majority really agree that pirating games has in any way improved conditions for us gamers? They cause considerable harm and force developers to find new ways to fight against piracy. I just assume people are spoiled and don't like being called on it.
Appreciate it :)
Look man, no one cares about piracy!!! I for example when I target a game ("The Witcher" for example), first download, play it, love it and buy it full version. But sometimes (Fallout 3 for example) - I buy it but still download it and play it "cracked", because I really, really hate MicrosoftGames or Xlive.dll or other online crap. That is that - I will never support stupid games !!! ("The hunted - Demon Forge" - I`ve tried it and wanted to puke, tell me how to buy this game on a blind fate????)
First you say you pirate to "demo" a game before you buy it (I completely understand and have stated such). But then you pirate games from a publisher you hate for whatever reason and whether or not you like the game decide against purchasing it and instead finish the game.
People seem to forget that you're hurting hard working developers along with the HATED Studio/Publisher. It's immature and it's still ******* theft. No excuse for that.
And you're wrong about piracy. We developers care, long time gamers who have seen the damage it's caused care, and people who aren't sticking their fingers in their ears and TROLOLOLOLOLOLing care.
I think we can safely conclude that both Blizzard and pirates suck. Though pirating from a company such as Bethesda of Blizzard can be justified in my opinion. Those guys are rich and their games don't show the quality of the money they have. They're greedy and I support the Robin Hood "Steal from the rich and give to the poor" system.
/End topic.
You can't justify piracy. The companies have money but you're hurting developers and gamers. You are a bigger problem then these companies. End this isn't the Robin Hood system. If you're selfishly stealing for yourself. It's not food, water, or shelter. It's someones work and entertainment. It'd be like stealing your neighbors entertainment system because he can afford it and doesn't use it enough in your opinion. But because it's digital we ignore that and pretend we're not hurting others or ourselves when that's exactly what pirates are doing.
/Good luck ending topic.
I don't need to end the topic. The subject has been debunked though. Blizzard are rich enough, so a few people pirating from them won't hurt them. So yes, it is the Robin Hood system. Why respect a company which doesn't care about its' fans?
I`ve always respected developers ! As I said - I "Target" (look up gamplay footage in youtube, read previews, reviews and so on) my games. I`m on the same oppinion as you are and also I don`t have time to waste on games, that I hate or don`t care at all. So no point of downloading. Others - download, love, buy - simple as that. This is on very rare occasions btw, mostly I love and play old and loners games like - Thief 1,2, System Shock2, The witcher, Fallout Series, and so on. As you may know most of these games are cheap - so I know them and directly buy them for 10-5 Eu. But giving 60 Euro for a game which later will require more money like WoW... sorry won`t going to happen! The greedy Blizzard bastards can go F. themselfs. They should make WoW: Diablo 3 Expansion if they want so much online users...
Besides, what Blizzard won`t be able to afford 6-7th fontain in their lobby when you download the ugly bastard child of "Diablo" ??
If it weren't for the huge community support for Diablo 2 in the form of mods it would have died a death years ago and Blizzard would have a much harder time selling the very idea of Diablo III. It's basically a big "**** you" to a once loyal fanbase and if that fanbase want to retaliate then Piracy is very probably the only way they'll get noticed. Actions speak much louder than words.
That said, I won't be pirating this game because I don't personally feel passionate enough about it to break the law.
Why the hell is everyone voting Tatsur0 down? He's right, you know. If you're buying the game, then you're basically telling them you're willing to pay to get shafted. But, on the other hand, if you're pirate the game, you're justifying their actions. If you don't like what they're doing then don't buy it, don't play it, don't pirate it.
Where is all this self-entitlement coming from, anyway?
Gamespot.com
look at the ******** they're adding too! they're not only making it a damn mmo, but they're setting the game up to make it f2p!
**** you blizzard!
At the end of the day, piracy is an individual decision - if someone has resolved to pirate, I don't think anyone else's opinions are going to make much of a difference.
On a lighter note...
Dmblog.patricknoonan.com
trololo works here too.
How are you gonna pirate it if online is REQUIRED to play the game?
Wouldn't that break it?
idk.
I notice how everyone who's stated they're generally against piracy (like the people who weren't against the holding back of modding tools for Battlefield 3) are all getting voted down. How mature...
I frankly don't even play Blizzard games. This here isn't surprising at all. They've never really presented any game, that I've seen, that focuses on being very creative or aspiring to more than hoping that its replayable enough to keep people hooked. You're surprised they aren't allowing mod tools?
totally agree with you... you know its a seriously sad statement on the part of developers when the customers are glad that pirates are around, just to be able to 'own' the game anymore.
and i hate to say this but thank god for pirates of games like this.
Well they said thay diablo 3 requires a constant Internet connection.
I added a forum post about this and all the updates. I think the couple people who aren't super worried but a little should check it out and throw their opinion at it. Also anyone want to start another petition? I mean graphic design is one thing but doing something that will give richer people a much bigger advantage? No no no no thank you.
Why do people always reply to first comment! Lol.
they charge people for putting out the item, actually getting it sold and redeeming money.
but yes, this system can go to ******* hell.
This and then...
Escapistmagazine.com
...this.
Blizzard is coming off as too pretentious.
People selling ingame items in Diablo? Unheard of! /s
Lol @ this huge *** topic.