Zombies, they scare me. Thread

Ok so im a big fan of zombies (who isnt ) and i play alot of zombie games, but i have never found that one zombie game thats is just perfect.
Every zombie game i played had some cool features and some bad ones, also most zombies games (and any fps in general) get boring after a while... then i got to thinking up a way to make a zombie game that is both fun, unique, and ridiculously repayable. And this is what i thought up of.

Randomly generated maps, i know it sounds hard, but let me explain how this could work... Basically you could make a whole bunch of pre-fab Sections of ground, like a street block, and you could each sections of ground have "hard Points" on em where you can slap a pre-fab building, wall, street, spawn, etc..... And you can have generator that creates the ground sections next to each other so that streets line up with other streets, then after a set amount of ground sections are placed then the generator would move onto the building section. first if a side of a block is not connected to an adjacent block it would put a wall there, then it picks random buildings to put on the rest of the "hard points" making sure that the buildings don't collide with other objects, after that the generator would put the spawn points, Special objects, and bot pathing. the spawn points for the players would "not" be near each other, so that there's the initial "im alone" feeling that helps the immersion factor. And all the starts could be just about anywhere. Then the zombie spawns would be placed, all around the maps.
Well that's the basic idea for the map generator.Now onto the game play of my game.

So most zombie games have players held up in one loctions defending for their life (with the exception of L4D), with no good reason to move. So i was wondering how would i make the players want to explore.... I didn't want to force them to a "safe house" i want them to make their own safe house. Then it came to me, why not have all the players start with crappy weapons and limited ammo. And make some buildings have limited ammo, or a gun or two, that would make it so that the players might explore the map for a bit... but not when its far into the game and scary things are running around. Then another idea hit me. Why not random events that can help the player out, maybe a rescue mission that could happen when a new player enters the game late or when a player dies, or an ammo/sentry gun drop (i will explain this a little later) where if the players want some more firepower they will have to go out and find and collect it. I didn't want the game to be too realistic because i think games are becoming to realistic and forgetting why games where invented (to have fun!) so i think giving players credits that they can spend on events to help out their situation, that could make the game more interesting.

I am one of the very few people that didn't like L4D... But the one thing i liked about their game was the different types of zombies... But, i was thinking on a way to make those zombies more of a threat. Then another idea came into mind.

A Zombie randomizer, the longer the game gets the stronger the zombies get,basically each zombie spawns with a random "stat setup", what i mean by this is that zombies get some attributes,

Aggression, Strength, vitality.

Aggression would be how determined the zombie wants to kill you, a nonaggressive zombie might just wander around waiting for you to poke it in the back with a knife, on the flip side an aggressive zombie might Sprint after you tring to eat your face off.
Strength would be how much damage it can do, if a zombie has little strength you could just laugh as it tickles you, But a zombie with some high strenth could swing once and you would be ripped in half.

Vitality is kinda self explainitory, you could sneeze on a zombie with low vitality and kill it, but a zombie with huge vitality could just each your bullets like no tommarow.

Then an assortment of special abilitys that only start to be an option to zombies after a certain amount of time passes,these could be like,

Jump, the zombie can jump up and over some barricades, and over other zombies.

Berserk, the zombie will get progressively stronger and more aggressive the less heath it has.

Rally, the zombie can make those nonaggressive zombies attack, a zombie with rally would collect

zombies till it has enough of them, then send the zombies at you in one big human killing wave.

Infection, if the zombie comes near you, you start to lose heath until you walk away.

Catapult, the zombie would pick up zombies near it, and throw them at you.

Invisible, the zombie would be invisible until it attacks you.

Flame retarded, basically it doesn't take any damage from flame, and it can catch you on fire if its on fire.

etc....

And all those abilities can be on the same zombie, so you might get an invisible zombie that is infected, so you wont see the zombie but you'll be taking damage over time. that would make zombies, vary and also it can make the players be forced to prioritize targets, not just cause they look diffent like in L4D.

Ok now onto the Players,The players get a killmarks for each zombie they kill (bonus kill marks if they kill a zombie with a special ability), these killmarks would be what the players use to buy some support.So after the player collects enough points he could then use his Stylish and Versitile Unit Support (S.A.Ve.U.S. for short ) to buy some kind of support.
So some things the player could buy would be,

Ammo cache, some where on the map an a box of ammo and weapons would float down, the player must then find the cache if they want to be supplied with ammo.

Sentry guy, this would be like the ammo cache, where it spawns somewhere on the map, and it would be deactivated until you activate it, you would ab able to carry it back to base, and set it up there. The sentry gun would add extra fire power, but doesnt have unlimited ammo, and the ammo would have to be resupplied to the gun, But resupply the gun would be time consuming, and if there's any ammo in the last clip it would be lost.

Artillery strike, its quite simple you buy this, you throw down some smoke, step away and watch the fun.

Napalm strike, like the artillery strike, cept its more expensive and will set the ground on fire, which will buy you some time to reload and any other pleasures.

Barricade, it would drop down a bunch of materials on the map, that you would have to find and you'll be able to create a barricade that can slow down the zombies. you can also use the materials to repair barricades.

etc...

OK so that's the basic game play... Oh, and the prices and the map setup and the rarity of the abilities on zombies would all be varied depending on what the host sets up.

I haven had much time to think up the story but my basic idea would be, its in the future. you get thrown into a drop pod with your squad, and get dropped into one of the many pre-fab sectors, and your mission is to kill as many zombies as possible to clean the streets, then you have to wait for the extraction ship to pick you up.

so tell me what do you think?

I love this mod idea I'll help any way I can, I could probly make a simple example map of the random generation idea.

I've probably watched 15 hours of zombie movies this week alone, but I can see myself passing on a mod like this as with all the other zombie mods I've lumped into a category. I'd much rather see Romero's/Brooks'/Penn's genre of zombie (the walking dead) properly represented in a game / mod, rather than these run-of-the-(game)-mill, pissed-off super-zombies that can leap tall buildings and plow through cars.

Cryrid wrote: I've probably watched 15 hours of zombie movies this week alone, but I can see myself passing on a mod like this as with all the other zombie mods I've lumped into a category. I'd much rather see Romero's/Brooks'/Penn's genre of zombie (the walking dead) properly represented in a game / mod, rather than these run-of-the-(game)-mill, pissed-off super-zombies that can leap tall buildings and plow through cars.

Movment speed could probly be another stat that the zombies have, but have you ever played a zombie game where all the zombies a slow and fall down in a few shots?(I havent seen vary many zombie movies but from the ones I've seen the zombies are like that)it can get vary boring vary fast.
But with varying speeds you would get a good mix of the slow normal zombies and fast mean zombies.

but have you ever played a zombie game where all the zombies a slow and fall down in a few shots?(I havent seen vary many zombie movies but from the ones I've seen the zombies are like that)it can get vary boring vary fast.

Just one game (original Resident Evil titles not counting, as they feature more than just zombies). It was a while ago so I forget the name of it, but the basics of it where that you were in a helicopter trying to make it across a good stretch of America. This aspect of the game was more of an overworld map, where you would simply pick the next location where you wish to land. The game would then switch to first person mode, where you must explore the area to either find ammo (rather rare), or more importantly, fuel for the helicopter (the whole point of the game). Ammo was limited, and the crosshair had a bit of a randomized sway to account for your player not being a typical surviver not too experienced with guns, exhausted, and under the stress of the whole situation (and only headshots count). Sometimes it was just better to avoid them, and try not to let them catch you unaware. I think you might have had 3-4 characters to control (you could swap between them). Each could have their own inventory (you could swap items while in the helicopter), and I think by not using a character and letting them rest, they'd be less fatigued for their aiming and movement. But if they die, that's one less person to help you on your journey.

No other game or mod has since done a zombie game right from what I can tell. Slow zombies may seem boring if placed in something like L4D, because you have unlimited ammo and can kill them by shooting them in the foot or lighting them on fire (which should really do little more than make the zombie even more dangerous). By classic Romero rules they should more or less shuffle around, stopped only when their brain is destroyed. But their numbers are limitless, and your ammo is easily countable. I honestly think it would be more fun to have a game like Condemed. You get a pipe, wrench, a shovel or whatever else you can find (a revolver with 5 bullets being a miracle), and you can't push 10+ zombies back 7 feet with great ease while reloading ala L4D. Trying to take on any more than 3 with melee could easily be a fatal mistake, same with entering a new room foolishly.

Slow zombies are very, very poetic. Perhaps the most poetic type of monster to exist. But to quote Simon Penn, speed simplifies the zombie, clarifying the threat and reducing any response to an emotional reflex. It's the difference between someone shouting "Boo!" and hearing the sound of the floorboards creaking in an upstairs room: a quick thrill at the expense of a more profound sense of dread. Zombies are about horror survival, not fast action. The focus used to be on what zombies represent and their impact on humanity / civilization. A lot of the times humans are going to be just as much your enemy as the zombies are. This gets nailed in classics like the original Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead, and books such as World War Z. These were rather enjoyable and far from boring even though they have slow zombies, because they understood the atmosphere. Now if you're going for run-and-gun arcade action like Left 4 Dead, the running modified rabies-type of enemy will do you fine. I'm just saying it'll make me more likely to pass it over and wait for the golden age / horror kind of zombie game to come again.

Edited by: Cryrid

Well i wanted the zombies to be slow.. i guess i didn't explain it well, basically most zombies would have low aggression, meaning they walk slow, and wont go after humans that are far away, unless there shooting at em.
but somtimes youll get bored, so i wanted some zombie with some special ability to spice things up. The ability are rare at the beginning, but get more and more common as the game progresses.

also, the ammo in this game is gonna be very limited, the artillery strikes are also very expensive. i want this game to be hard, but unique every time you play it. i want to force the players to time their reloads and count their bullets so that they get overrun. And i want the special zombies to only have very subtle differences in their appearance, so that the players have to actually go out of their way to discover whats more of a threat than the others. I dont want it to be run and gun, but i also don't want it to be a shooting gallery.

Edited by: imaword

I like the map generation idea and the limited resources idea - You could add a food requirement and maybe working vehicles and gasoline (I would love a game that looked like FUEL crossed with an MMO with zombies and harsh scavenging requirements).

My current favorite Zombie fiction is The Walking Dead, a must read comic for anyone with the slightest interest in zombies.

A few ideas taken from there:
1) Other humans are even worse than zombies (most of them are driven mad, have lost all sense of morals, and are only thinking of their own survival, some have loved ones turned zombie tied up and fed like sad pets); some are actually really helpful and nice though and it is not always clear.Ttraitors and people just losing it abound.
2)Sound attracts zombies. Zombies not moving will follow zombies moving. If you just stand in one place and shoot you'll start attracting a herd of thousands it could take them a long time to reach you but they'll just keep walking in whatever direction they are headed. This is a good reason to use swords and axes and save your ammo for when you need it.
3) Zombies can smell humans but chaining up some comparitively docile zombies and dragging them around with you can mask your scent, just don't get too comfortable around your 'pets'.

I haven't read all of the first post but as to your "random Map generator," this idea has been used in only one game that i know of which is 'Soldier of Fortune 2' and the main problem they had with the random map gen was that the AI was really bad. So just pointing this fact out that if you do have a random map Generator your gonna need a very good programmer for the AI part, but otherwise (so far) everything looks good. GL man.
P.S. just looked at the invisible zombie idea where they only turn visible once they attack you, that might make gameplay incredibly difficult.

well, the zombies would bleed when you shoot them, and also youll hear them moan, and there wont be alot of invisible zombies. so it shouldnt be incredibly difficult.

imaword wrote: Ok so im a big fan of zombies (who isnt ) and i play
alot of zombie games, but i have never found that one zombie game thats
is just perfect.

Everyone has a different idea of the perfect enemy ... hence why someone hasn't created yours ...

imaword wrote: Invisible, the zombie would be invisible until it attacks you.

Really? Why should the dead get the ability to turn invisible?

Cryrid wrote: I've probably watched 15 hours of zombie movies this week alone, but I can see myself passing on a mod like this as with all the other zombie mods I've lumped into a category. I'd much rather see Romero's/Brooks'/Penn's genre of zombie (the walking dead) properly represented in a game / mod, rather than these run-of-the-(game)-mill, pissed-off super-zombies that can leap tall buildings and plow through cars.

Ditto ...

Zombies should overpower by numbers not by superpowers ... some variety in zombie behavior is good and appearance is also good ... but generally they should be weaker than other players (they're dead ... and rotting ... they should be weak!)

I kinda like the idea of walking zombies (fast walk, so that the player doesn't run circles around zombies ... but the player still should be able to get away if they aren't surrounded)

imaword wrote: Randomly generated maps, i know it sounds hard, but let me explain how this could work... Basically you could make a whole bunch of pre-fab Sections of ground, like a street block, and you could each sections of ground have "hard Points" on em where you can slap a pre-fab building, wall, street, spawn, etc.....

Actually thought about this ... variety of block types is key though ... if you saw the same 6 buildings over and over and over ...

What you're best off doing is implementing pieces of a city by city block sections and split the sections right down the divider of the road ... however, you would also need multiple block pieces that have variation (maybe some have roads on all four sides, some 3, some two, some one) and multiple block pieces (such as a city park) that are randomly assigned ... then you would also need barrier block pieces to outline the edges of your map ... then you need an algorithum to build this city correctly (don't want blocks with road on one side aligned to a block next to it with grass (thus making half a road with a weird grass section)

... and maybe a part of that algorithum should decrease the probability of a house being next to a skyscraper and increase the probability of a house being near a house, just to make it look as if the city is not completely mixed up ...

see where im getting at? ... making the algorithm that makes the map would be incredibly complex ... and mixing pieces like that isn't even possible for alot of engines ...

When i tried it i made a map with 9 different sections ... then i used warpzones to tie them all together (i thought "move the player, not the building!") ... the warpzones would then be randomly assigned to connect one another ... however ... i didn't take into account that if you do a big circle through multiple zones they should come back to the same place ... but normally didn't ... making it easily the most disorienting map ive ever played/made ... the basic laws of physics were inapplicable ... there were places that were sometimes generated that i could see the same spot looking down two corridors LOL ...

im sure i could fix the algorithm, but its would be some extremely complex matrix mathematics that i would actually have to think about for more than 30 minutes ...

Edited by: Assaultman67

well the reason i wanted to add "superpowers" was cause well after 20 mins of shooting zombies, its gonna start too get boring... i mean yea youll run out of ammo, but the would be no difference in zombies. i guess i could add subtle powers, like.... um ... maybe a chance to come back to life.
And for the map generator yea, it would be pretty complex but it would be well worth the time, i think, cause the we could spend a lot less time on making new maps to keep the people happy, and more time on features.

If its the occasional zombie that spices things up, I could let that slide. It's when there's countless swarms (running) straight at you to gun down that bores me within 20 minutes (the zombie mode in world at war for example). What I'd most like to see in a zombie game is the atmosphere and suspense. Like when you're walking down a dark hallway in the original Resident Evils and you don't know whats going to be around the corner or even a recess in the wall (but you can't just spray half a magazine at whatever waits for you). The silent zombies that can sneak up on you (crawling) when you're busy doing something else. I can picture a sequence where you enter a truck or helicopter like in Dawn, and have to do some sort of hot-wiring mini game to start it. You'd be completely helpless during the game (unless you have a buddy guarding you... stuck in a sniper position perhaps?) and you are unable to see outside the cab while engaged in the minigame (you can abort if needed) - all you know is that you can hear their moans getting closer)

I love zombies,cuz half the time they are the stupid enemy of the game lol. Slow and not able to think

I got an idea, the game could have 2 parts to it, the first part is when you first start the game is this would be the explore and collect part.

so for like the first 30 (random number) mins, you and your buddys have to find each other, then look for food, water, weapons, barricades(to border up windows/doors/allyways), and a place to make a "safe" house. While looking for your Supplies, the zombies numbers slowly start to increase. Hopefully you get enough supplies in this stage, cause soon the zombies start getting hungry, and they start crowding around in packs, and slowly walk toward you. Maybe make it so food and water only lasts minutes, and if you dont eat anything in a while you can pass out.

then if the food starts to run out, you might need to split into groups, one to distract the zombies, while the other looks for food and supplies.

i want this game to be more of a "how long can you survive" game. then a game like l4d where its just... "get here without dying" game.

Man i want to get a team together and start working on this... But i dont know what engine could support the random maps, cause for me thats the key to success.

Edited by: imaword

I think the source engine could support the random maps (The only problem would be pathing but I think info_path nodes would work), and if you found some one thats good with ai maybe they could mod the director from l4d to contorole the zombies to act like you want them to.
edit: There are actualy info_node not info_path, not sure if you can have them spawn at map start. If they cant maybe creat some thing that can, or youll have to build a nav map for every posable outcome. Unless there is another way that i dont know about
edit2: UE 3 probly could do the random thing too i read that borderlands is makeing some randomization in there game map
edit3: been looking at the valve developer wiki and I think the dynamic nav can be done useing info_node_link

Edited by: sad_aust

sad_aust wrote: I think the source engine could support the random maps (The only problem would be pathing but I think info_path nodes would work), and if you found some one thats good with ai maybe they could mod the director from l4d to contorole the zombies to act like you want them to.
edit: There are actualy info_node not info_path, not sure if you can have them spawn at map start. If they cant maybe creat some thing that can, or youll have to build a nav map for every posable outcome. Unless there is another way that i dont know about
edit2: UE 3 probly could do the random thing too i read that borderlands is makeing some randomization in there game map
edit3: been looking at the valve developer wiki and I think the dynamic nav can be done useing info_node_link

Well, couldn't you make prefabricated segments of blocks with random buildings capable of spawning which already have the bot pathing set up, then have a "random" nature to the spawn etc etc?

necrometer wrote: Well, couldn't you make prefabricated segments of blocks with random buildings capable of spawning which already have the bot pathing set up, then have a "random" nature to the spawn etc etc?

you could but i think it would be better to have the buildings made useing a prop and then have the path in them and at level start the buildings get killed off with the path going with them leaving the desigerd setup

Well i was thinking... if there was like 1 really big map that wasn't randomly generated except for like supply spawns, some buildings could maybe interchangeable, and spawns could be random.

You should probably make several sets of prefabs for this.
Like "desert" themed props, that go into "desert" themed levels. Then a set of city, jungle, tundra, etc.
You also need to set up some rules for the map generator, at game start. Like, "forest density", so you won't get really strange looking maps.
As far as AI for zombies goes, they will need to work ways to travel through this procedural terrain. Maybe not anything really advanced, snce zombies are dumb, so merely navigating is enough.
Then we got he story element. Why do you have so many types of zombies? Romero zombies, 28-days-later fast zombies, sci-fi-ish-vampiric zombies, and invisible ones. Where do they all come from? Justify that a bit? If you really want to not get lost in the wave of zombie games, mods and films that are flooding the market with mediocracy, you must have something unique, good, and intriguing. Since what we have now, is a bandwagon that everyone is jumping on, by slapping LOL ZOMBIES on their idea.Map generator idea was good. It would fit a lot in the current zombie games, since I feel that the maps and missions get boring real quick.

well, for the story bit, i kinda made a rough draft. but its basicly like... A group of scientists where experimenting on some people, couple years later those experiments and the scientists disappeared, out of the blue. Then 50 or so years after that, zombies started apearing, but they acted more like an ant hive where they had scout zombies that looked for food, then they had the workers zombies, soldiers zombies just incase the food fought back. Then we discovers that the zombies where actually being controlled by a hive mind, which was actually the scientists. (yea its just my basic idea, untill i know what engine and how to go about starting it up, im not gonna work on the story.)

Ih onestly feel Z-Games are over done. im not saying your points are nto valid as you have some amazing ideas there. While i agree with Cryrid (the only zombie game i would want to play is a conventional one) i believe the problem is not thinking new features for zombie mods but attempting to steer clear of them. They all have good points and bad points but they seem to be flooding everything at the moment.

izzysinz wrote: Ih onestly feel Z-Games are over done. im not saying your points are nto valid as you have some amazing ideas there. While i agree with Cryrid (the only zombie game i would want to play is a conventional one) i believe the problem is not thinking new features for zombie mods but attempting to steer clear of them. They all have good points and bad points but they seem to be flooding everything at the moment.

The thing is the idea behind this mod, is to use the best of everything. Random nature in maps is nothing new really, but effective for adding more replay value, hopefully something can be achieved that is more effective than l4d or its sequel. And from what i can tell it would have a huge amount of variety in the zombies, all of which have already been used but have proven to give to the scare factor. basically there is nothing entirely new about this mod other than the way all the concepts would be combined

I honestly believe dead rising did it right. It was difficult, the zombies were realistic in a sense that they're slow, cannibalistic and such. the game was also rediculus and held onto that "its just a game" concept. Just tons of zombies and melee weapons to screw around with. Nothing randomly generated though, which is quite interesting.

Edited by: BoredGunman

I made a ut3 map that is mainly a proof of the random map but it spawns zombies to fight and can be fun.
Link here: Gamefront.com

What game is this for?