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Poll: Would You Kill Baby Hitler? (474 votes)
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yarow12
yarow12 I am the Epic awesome; I am the Awesome epic
Mar 26 2011, 8:24pm Anchor
DeadPhil wrote:I would definatly kill Baby Hitler, I would stop on him and make him starve to death like they did to babies in those concentration camps

How could you blame a baby for something that it hasn't even done?

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Mar 26 2011, 10:14pm Anchor
yarow12 wrote:
DeadPhil wrote:I would definatly kill Baby Hitler, I would stop on him and make him starve to death like they did to babies in those concentration camps

How could you blame a baby for something that it hasn't even done?


Yes

Edited by: DeadPhil

Mar 26 2011, 10:17pm Anchor

...or you could prevent his "struggle" by positive intervention. People are easily influenced, especially younger children.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 26 2011, 10:53pm Anchor
Quote: People are easily influenced, especially younger children.

People are also easily murdered, especially younger children. Agree with the act or not, but if someone wanted to kill Hitler before WW2/the holocaust then his youth would be a pretty opportune time to do it. I think thats one of the reasons the hypothetical question exists.

Mobius89
Mobius89 Proud FREDder of the Inferno Team
Mar 27 2011, 5:18pm Anchor

Uhm, no offense, but this is a rather weird poll...

I'm going to address the issue directly: Hitler did what he did, and it was horrible, but are we sure killing him would have prevented WWII and the Holocaust from happening? Had not been for the post-WWI situation in Germany, Hitler would have hardly gained enough power to make the worst tragedies of human history possible. In poor words, I believe someone would have played his role in his place, and may - I say may - have been even worse than him.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 27 2011, 5:28pm Anchor
Quote:I'm going to address the issue directly: Hitler did what he did, and it was horrible, but are we sure killing him would have prevented WWII and the Holocaust from happening? Had not been for the post-WWI situation in Germany, Hitler would have hardly gained enough power to make the worst tragedies of human history possible. In poor words, I believe someone would have played his role in his place, and may - I say may - have been even worse than him.

It boils down to the fact that we know Hitler is guaranteed to start a genocide, but to think someone else would simply step in and play the same role is a complete uncertainty that can not be backed. That's the gamble.

yarow12
yarow12 I am the Epic awesome; I am the Awesome epic
Mar 28 2011, 7:52pm Anchor

Or we can just let history play out regardless of the outcome. Most things in the cosmos are beyond our understanding. It's as simple as that.

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ytres
ytres MiG-29
Mar 28 2011, 10:26pm Anchor

Nope, I wouldn't. Not because I like him. Because modifying history like that has, pardon the Half-Life reference, unforeseen consequences.

The 20th century without Hitler (and WW2) would be a very, very, very different place. A better one? We don't know, and I don't want to risk it.

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X4VI3R
X4VI3R Don't waste my time
Mar 28 2011, 11:19pm Anchor

...And unforeseeable is our very future, right now. Foresight is not a negative criteria to abstain from doing anything- but memory is.

Having the unique possibility to change the past, and after considering the shithole the world has become since WW2.... i'd HONESTLY, GLADLY risk it.
Otherwise, we'd just have to settle with... this.

But, if you ask me, I'D TRY TO PREVENT WW1 INSTEAD OF BOTHERING IN KILLING THIS FUCKER.

ytres
ytres MiG-29
Mar 28 2011, 11:25pm Anchor

"shithole the world has become since WW2"

Heh, even if WW2 did not happen, the world would of gotten to the shithole status it is at anyways. Human's fault.

And it's not all shit, seeing as we've made great advancements in the scientific field. The engineering field, too, but a lot of that was designing things to kill people.

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Assaultman67
Assaultman67 Needs a fuckin' title
Mar 29 2011, 1:34am Anchor
☭InSovietRussia™ wrote:...The engineering field, too, but a lot of that was designing things to kill people.

Unfortuantely, that's quite true ... alot of the higher level mechanical engineering concepts were basically formulated during the 1940s

Also, although im not in favor of killing hitler as a baby, I wouldn't think twice about changing the past.

Think about it like this. Would you let bad decisions and situations develop right now if you knew it would turn out bad? You have the capability to change the outcome, but you don't know if it will be better or worse. I would think that if original outcome was "pretty bad" it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to "roll the dice" for a different outcome. If you were to rate the scenarios with a normal distribution, odds are at greater than 50% that you will get a better scenario.

It's the same concept except in the past, you know Hitler is going to rise to power and start WWII, the question is how can you make the current (but actually you're in the past) situation better? Simply by changing events you probably have changed it for the better.

Of course you may not exist because you changed the past, but it seems like such a small thing to weigh against the lives of millions of people who died (and probably 10x that who never existed)

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yarow12
yarow12 I am the Epic awesome; I am the Awesome epic
Mar 29 2011, 1:28pm Anchor
Assaultman67 wrote:
☭InSovietRussia™ wrote:...The engineering field, too, but a lot of that was designing things to kill people.

Unfortuantely, that's quite true ... alot of the higher level mechanical engineering concepts were basically formulated during the 1940s

Also, although im not in favor of killing hitler as a baby, I wouldn't think twice about changing the past.

Think about it like this. Would you let bad decisions and situations develop right now if you knew it would turn out bad? You have the capability to change the outcome, but you don't know if it will be better or worse. I would think that if original outcome was "pretty bad" it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to "roll the dice" for a different outcome. If you were to rate the scenarios with a normal distribution, odds are at greater than 50% that you will get a better scenario.

It's the same concept except in the past, you know Hitler is going to rise to power and start WWII, the question is how can you make the current (but actually you're in the past) situation better? Simply by changing events you probably have changed it for the better.

Of course you may not exist because you changed the past, but it seems like such a small thing to weigh against the lives of millions of people who died (and probably 10x that who never existed)


I used to do that while playing RPG's. It took the fun out of everything.

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Assaultman67
Assaultman67 Needs a fuckin' title
Mar 29 2011, 6:24pm Anchor

^
Implying WWII was fun :P

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Mar 30 2011, 5:00am Anchor

This:
Tvtropes.org

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 30 2011, 1:42pm Anchor

Too many poor assumptions in that article.

Assaultman67
Assaultman67 Needs a fuckin' title
Mar 30 2011, 5:08pm Anchor
Cryrid wrote:Too many poor assumptions in that article.

Tvtropes is a site that explains the common plot devices used in television programs ...

It reflects tv logic, not actual logic :P

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Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 30 2011, 5:23pm Anchor

I know what it is (I've wasted many hours there before), but the article itself is less about presenting the plot devices and more writing them as if they'd be 100% true (saying that locating him would be the ultimate needle in a haystack when his life is pretty well documented, or saying outright that there would be a temporal paradox when the temporal paradox article it links to says otherwise). It spends several paragraphs trying hard to set the stage how killing Hitler would be a grave mistake, and then has to ironically close by admitting "there's no telling if a world without WWII would have turned out better or worse than the world we live in today". It's just not a good article. 

Apr 1 2011, 5:44pm Anchor

If you killed Hitler's dad, you would be better off.
You see, Adolf Hitler was a great child. He had good grades, his teachers loved him. His mother loved Adolf the most because he was the only one that was hers out of his siblings (half brothers and sisters). She just couldn't say no.
His father, however, was mean and abusive.
Adolf wanted to be an artist. His father snapped and beat Hitler more and more and more and more... Hitler finally snapped as well.
He went off screwing up his grades and doing whatever he wanted out of rage due to his father's actions.
If he didn't have an abusive father,  we might know him well today, too, as a famous artist.
Nobody knows.

yarow12
yarow12 I am the Epic awesome; I am the Awesome epic
Apr 2 2011, 1:48pm Anchor

And there is no need to know for what has happened has already happened. Those Jews are dead, many of them are still buried beneath the snow mounds, and Hitler is apparently dead, but his legacy lives on through Nazism. What we now need to do truly is kill all of the Neo-Nazis. That is, if we don't want another holocaust on our hands.

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hollowminds
hollowminds Killer of threads
Apr 3 2011, 9:14am Anchor

its really a moral dilemma i'm not sure on, save all those people but risk the unknown or kill the leader, would it have fully killed the concept? I'm not well versed but personally Hitler = bad so please don't take the 'no' answer as me being a neo nazi.. I'm just afraid of the butterfly effect.

May 23 2011, 4:12pm Anchor

That would F-up the timeline.

Assaultman67
Assaultman67 Needs a fuckin' title
May 24 2011, 9:22pm Anchor
hollowminds wrote:its really a moral dilemma I'm not sure on, save all those people but risk the unknown or kill the leader, would it have fully killed the concept? I'm not well versed but personally Hitler = bad so please don't take the 'no' answer as me being a neo nazi.. I'm just afraid of the butterfly effect.


Killing neo-nazis? Neo nazis dont even have a political party, they're not even near the same threat level as the nazi political party in the 30's ... neo-nazis pretty much fall under the same group as the KKK and religious extremists.

the nazi political party didn't really run on the platform that "jews are bad" so much as they ran on the platform that "Germany needs new leadership with drastic reformations". The jew killing was just a product of that "drastic reformation". Basically, they took advantage of the German population after WWI who was completely miserable due to high

If they ever EVER get a political party of more than 5% then you can start worrying.

I would be more worried about governments manipulating each others economies or corporations manipulating governments now though. War has been rapidly evolving in the past 200 years, especially the methods in which we wage it.

Edit: Months later and i just now realized i never finished that sentence :/ "... due to high reparations imposed on the germans after WWI by other countries."

Edited by: Assaultman67

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numbersix
numbersix I am not a number
May 27 2011, 4:18pm Anchor
> kill baby Hitler
change the time line and | or past

Um, what if it wasnt past, but present?  You would have no idea what the baby would do...
And if it is past, how do you get there?

More than that, the question or ideaology of altering past / future / present may all be moot.
If some of what quantum theorists posit is true the universe has alternate states and time lines that manifest _all_ possibilities.

So...
There is already a version of our universe with our earth and many of our selves where:
Hitler never existed, died early, or simply became a pacifist artist.
There was no WWII (Weimar republic got a better deal?  Avoided hyper inflation)...some 11 million (or more) people did not die.
Maybe the atom wasnt split in the 40s.  So no nuclear power either.
That alternates Europe (the parts hit hard in the war) must be incredible with all the old architecture still left.
But then maybe someone like Kadafi comes along and starts WWII...and its worse.  11 million instead is 3 billion.
Except there is an alternate where he doesnt.  An alternate to all the alternates where humanity coexists peacefully.

But the point is all these possibilities could have happened.
You dont need to go back in time and kill baby Hitler - you just need to go sideways in time to an alternate where he died young, or never existed... a world
that had no WWII.  Might want to make your device a two way gadget - you might not like the alternate world.

How about this: what if quantum theory and the bibles creation myth are both _correct_!
Then there is an alternate time line where Adam and Eve never got thrown out of Eden.  They live there to this day
in peace and tranquility, never changing immortals.  Hrm.  that might get a tad boring.

ind1
ind1 Evil Genius
Jun 2 2011, 7:33am Anchor

short answer yes long answer no,

depending how much time i had in the past,

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Hi

Jun 2 2011, 1:27pm Anchor

Simply no. And that mainly for two reasons:

  1. War lies in the humans nature. If there wouldn't have been no Hitler, we'd most likely fought WW2 a couple years later with nukes.
  2. If I would be forced to change the past, I would rather do my best to ensure his morality does NOT get broken.

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