Which is done first : Audio or Visuals? Thread

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Which is done first : Audio or Visuals? (Forums : 3D Modeling & Animating : Which is done first : Audio or Visuals?)	Post Reply
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Flash112	Nov 20 2012, 11:18am Anchor
I am quite a fan of animation/short films..I am slowly making some too! But that's another story.. I have been thinking which is the best way to make an animation in terms of chemistry of the audio and the visuals. I mean, do you make the animation around the sound or the other way around? For example old Disney cartoons where they used orchestra and such, first recorded the audio and then made their animations around that.. I am quite interested in hearing your thoughts on this topic.. So the question is : Do you make the audio to fit the visuals or make/tweak the visuals to fit the audio? What is your approach to this? -- Think It. Sketch It. Create It. Repeat.
TerranAmbassador	Nov 20 2012, 1:54pm Anchor
I think it depends on the preference of the studio/team/person making it, but I think it's usually audio then visual. I remember watching a short about the production for Road to El Dorado and the talked about how they recorded the dialog and THEN drew out the scenes, because it's a lot easier to match a drawing to person than it is a person to a drawing (or another person; think of dubbing). Music is probably last, since that's usually influenced by what's on screen any way. No expert though, so a grain or two of salt might be advisable. -- I snark, therefore, I am. The reason behind this banner will be revealed in due time....
Tetsuo3	Nov 20 2012, 1:55pm Anchor
If it's just an animation preview or shortfilm like you explain, I'd probably rough out the screen play first with a story board etc, think about the flow, actions in each scene and what type of animation I'll be using and what type of feeling you're going for overall. Once you've got this, and figured out roughly how long each scene and how long the short film is going to be, then start looking at sounds for mood and atmosphere etc. If it's timed by music, then I'd say get the music done first, based around your story boards etc and planned sequences that will occur. Talk about the types of things in the scene, and really go by your storyboards. Once you've got the music feeling right and timed correctly etc, then start animating and developing your shots around that scene by scene to fit in with the music. If the animation runs longer than expected or you think of new different ways (better ways) of portraying something, then it's not too much work to go in and change the music to suit the new scene. Basically, for this type of work, I personally find fitting animation around the music better. It gets you more immersed and really enhances the emotions and so on when developing and helps develop better ideas. Having music there can change your perceptions on something and really help develop a piece that fits perfectly to the music to enhance it. If it's a much bigger task and you have a lot to of animation to do, like for a game or a bigger sequence etc, then obviously, the music comes afterwards to fit around the potential action and on screen events. Just my two cents. Some people might work differently.
Guiboune	Nov 20 2012, 3:48pm Anchor
everything in audio EXCEPT voices is done after. except in music videos but that's not the same it's always better like that since obviously, for the majority, visuals is much more important than audio so no need to base the visuals on it I studied music and sound design and I never heard of any movie or video in general where the audio was done first. it's usually the very last step in any production
Cryrid 3D Artist	Nov 21 2012, 11:34am Anchor
Quote:I studied music and sound design and I never heard of any movie or video in general where the audio was done first. it's usually the very last step in any production I think usually, at least with animation, the audio comes first. Otherwise it would be extremely hard for the animators to try and get the right lip shapes at the right times, and it allows them to capture some of the actor's performance and characteristics into the character they're animating (like how you can see Robin Williams in the Genie, Rowan Atkinson in Zazu, Robby Benson in the Beast, Danny DeVito in Philoctetes, etc). Afterwards they can bring the actors back for ADR and add in any sound effects / foley that they need, but the initial performance is still key. Edited by: Cryrid
O N L I N E TheHappyFriar :)	Nov 21 2012, 12:05pm Anchor
Depends on what you want to do and what you have the ability to do. Sound is more critical then visuals and normally both are gone over several times. I've done both: when I did some videos I have on here I did the video first, then I did the audio. When I did a game trailer I had the music and had to match that. Many times something will be shot with the idea of what the music should be like in mind, then the music is composed specifically for that shot. Aliens comes to mind: classical was used in many parts, then after the movie was in the final stages the score was composed. Basically, digital has changed how everything works: no longer do you need so be stuck with something you've spend years on because it can be done in hours. -- Go play some Quake 2: q2server.fuzzylogicinc.com It's like Source v0.9, only... better! Play Paintball for Doom 3!: d3server.fuzzylogicinc.com Doom 3 Paintball to the Max!

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Flash112

Nov 20 2012, 11:18am Anchor

I am quite a fan of animation/short films..I am slowly making some too! But that's another story..

I have been thinking which is the best way to make an animation in terms of chemistry of the audio and the visuals. I mean, do you make the animation around the sound or the other way around? For example old Disney cartoons where they used orchestra and such, first recorded the audio and then made their animations around that..
I am quite interested in hearing your thoughts on this topic..
So the question is : Do you make the audio to fit the visuals or make/tweak the visuals to fit the audio? What is your approach to this?

--

Think It. Sketch It. Create It. Repeat.

TerranAmbassador

Nov 20 2012, 1:54pm Anchor

I think it depends on the preference of the studio/team/person making it, but I think it's usually audio then visual. I remember watching a short about the production for Road to El Dorado and the talked about how they recorded the dialog and THEN drew out the scenes, because it's a lot easier to match a drawing to person than it is a person to a drawing (or another person; think of dubbing).

Music is probably last, since that's usually influenced by what's on screen any way.

No expert though, so a grain or two of salt might be advisable.

--

I snark, therefore, I am.

The reason behind this banner will be revealed in due time....

Tetsuo3

Nov 20 2012, 1:55pm Anchor

If it's just an animation preview or shortfilm like you explain, I'd probably rough out the screen play first with a story board etc, think about the flow, actions in each scene and what type of animation I'll be using and what type of feeling you're going for overall.

Once you've got this, and figured out roughly how long each scene and how long the short film is going to be, then start looking at sounds for mood and atmosphere etc. If it's timed by music, then I'd say get the music done first, based around your story boards etc and planned sequences that will occur. Talk about the types of things in the scene, and really go by your storyboards.

Once you've got the music feeling right and timed correctly etc, then start animating and developing your shots around that scene by scene to fit in with the music. If the animation runs longer than expected or you think of new different ways (better ways) of portraying something, then it's not too much work to go in and change the music to suit the new scene.

Basically, for this type of work, I personally find fitting animation around the music better. It gets you more immersed and really enhances the emotions and so on when developing and helps develop better ideas. Having music there can change your perceptions on something and really help develop a piece that fits perfectly to the music to enhance it.

If it's a much bigger task and you have a lot to of animation to do, like for a game or a bigger sequence etc, then obviously, the music comes afterwards to fit around the potential action and on screen events.

Just my two cents. Some people might work differently.

Guiboune

Nov 20 2012, 3:48pm Anchor

everything in audio EXCEPT voices is done after.
except in music videos but that's not the same
it's always better like that since obviously, for the majority, visuals is much more important than audio so no need to base the visuals on it
I studied music and sound design and I never heard of any movie or video in general where the audio was done first. it's usually the very last step in any production

Cryrid 3D Artist

Nov 21 2012, 11:34am Anchor

Quote:I studied music and sound design and I never heard of any movie or video in general where the audio was done first. it's usually the very last step in any production

I think usually, at least with animation, the audio comes first. Otherwise it would be extremely hard for the animators to try and get the right lip shapes at the right times, and it allows them to capture some of the actor's performance and characteristics into the character they're animating (like how you can see Robin Williams in the Genie, Rowan Atkinson in Zazu, Robby Benson in the Beast, Danny DeVito in Philoctetes, etc).

Afterwards they can bring the actors back for ADR and add in any sound effects / foley that they need, but the initial performance is still key.

Edited by: Cryrid

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N
L
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TheHappyFriar :)

Nov 21 2012, 12:05pm Anchor

Depends on what you want to do and what you have the ability to do. Sound is more critical then visuals and normally both are gone over several times.

I've done both: when I did some videos I have on here I did the video first, then I did the audio. When I did a game trailer I had the music and had to match that.

Many times something will be shot with the idea of what the music should be like in mind, then the music is composed specifically for that shot. Aliens comes to mind: classical was used in many parts, then after the movie was in the final stages the score was composed.

Basically, digital has changed how everything works: no longer do you need so be stuck with something you've spend years on because it can be done in hours.

--

Go play some Quake 2: q2server.fuzzylogicinc.com
It's like Source v0.9, only... better!
Play Paintball for Doom 3!: d3server.fuzzylogicinc.com
Doom 3 Paintball to the Max!