... Rail weapons are not like traditional cannons in which most the damage is done by an explosive ... the damage is done by the actual collision itself ...
If it's using these planets/stations/satellites as a means of getting your projectiles across (or other weapon emissions), then that is useful, if of course you are really good at firing weapons, especially on a ship 
...
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| What do you think Space Warfare will actually be like? (Forums : Cosmos : What do you think Space Warfare will actually be like?) | Post Reply | |
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Aug 19 2009, 8:22am Anchor | |
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p0rt wrote:
Assaultman67 wrote:holy crap i thought i was pretty clear in my last post ... calculating trajectories for long range systems isn't the problem ... its getting that kinda accuracy in the mechanical systems via servos, or linear actuators or whatever the hell you plan on using to move your turret ... you know ... the thing you are going to tell to move via computer ...
1/1000th of a degree is ... really fucking small >_> ... that's why im saying a weapon that shoots a projectile/beam couldn't hit a target at such a long range ... However if the projectile had its own guidance system it would be able to correct for the inaccuracy in the ship-based targeting system ... last time i check, robots automaticaly made microchips how small are microchips? I think robots go through the motions, not really like... assemble every molecule. I don't really know how microchips are made, but things that small are usually made by other methods (including robotics) that don't require full hands on assembly. not sure though, I'm really just asking really. L0K wrote:You dont know what kind of locomotion would be used to move a laser turret a thousand years from now nor the size of it. It could bio-mechanical and work the same way an eye locks on to movements. But projectiles would get shot down. Even if the projectile travelled at 90% of the speed of light (assuming it could not adjust trajectory at that speed) it's launch and trajectory could be identified and destroyed in a second from a laser based weapon. If the projectile is moving a more reasonable speed, say 20% of the speed of light and has the ability to adjust on the fly it's launch would still be detected and its trajectory calculated instantly from every course correction it made. If it had a 'shotgun effect' then the projectile may not even pose a challenge at all, a wide spread microwave would melt everything in a short range. A computer a thousand years from now could most likely calculate millions of seperate signatures and target/destroy everyone that got within its kill range. The ones that make it through would be vaporized by the microwave sweeps. The only thing that would stop an energy based weapon is a gravitational shield of immense power (Strong enough to bend light) or some form of heat absorption technology, though I have no idea would could shrug off 20 terawatts of juice. Even if the ships had to get within your ideal kill range, a laser that can surgicaly remove key systems such as a bridge, engines or weapons is still a better idea than blasting everything you have at a target and hoping you hit something vital.
You see, thats the problem when asking what space warfare would be like; it's science fiction and a game of cat and mouse. Every time the perfect weapon is invented, the perfect defense is invented. In the case of nukes today, it's more nukes. No one wants MAD. yeah I agree... of course everything could just boil down to playing chicken in space, just dancing right outside everyone else's killzone xD -- >>BlueDrake42<<
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Aug 19 2009, 10:28am Anchor | |
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cpu cores have transistors, cant etch those with a laser, a turret would just have the same mechanics as a robot, just on a bigger scale Edited by: p0rt -- quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images => |
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Aug 19 2009, 10:45am Anchor | |
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L0K wrote:You dont know what kind of locomotion would be used to move a laser turret a thousand years from now nor the size of it. It could bio-mechanical and work the same way an eye locks on to movements. But projectiles would get shot down. Even if the projectile travelled at 90% of the speed of light (assuming it could not adjust trajectory at that speed) it's launch and trajectory could be identified and destroyed in a second from a laser based weapon. If the projectile is moving a more reasonable speed, say 20% of the speed of light and has the ability to adjust on the fly it's launch would still be detected and its trajectory calculated instantly from every course correction it made. If it had a 'shotgun effect' then the projectile may not even pose a challenge at all, a wide spread microwave would melt everything in a short range. A computer a thousand years from now could most likely calculate millions of seperate signatures and target/destroy everyone that got within its kill range. The ones that make it through would be vaporized by the microwave sweeps. The only thing that would stop an energy based weapon is a gravitational shield of immense power (Strong enough to bend light) or some form of heat absorption technology, though I have no idea would could shrug off 20 terawatts of juice. Even if the ships had to get within your ideal kill range, a laser that can surgicaly remove key systems such as a bridge, engines or weapons is still a better idea than blasting everything you have at a target and hoping you hit something vital.
You see, thats the problem when asking what space warfare would be like; it's science fiction and a game of cat and mouse. Every time the perfect weapon is invented, the perfect defense is invented. In the case of nukes today, it's more nukes. No one wants MAD. You're forgetting that a thousand years from now, the aforementioned weapons will be completely obsolete. Thus, the only kind of acceptable weapons/technology are arbitrary weapons/technology. Stuff we wouldn't even think about in the present. Laser beams? Microwave emitters? Forget that! We'll probably shooting something completely different like warfare-tolerant plastic knives at high speeds or something ridiculous like that (I know it's ironic that I mentioned plastic knives, but it's just for relation sake - aka, example). Edited by: Toyoka |
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Aug 19 2009, 11:09am Anchor | |
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Good point - there are many parameters to consider, like technological development and science. Graviton torpedoes? Beam wepons? It is highly probable that future weapons will be well beyond our imagination. |
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| Aug 19 2009, 2:38pm Anchor | ||
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L0K wrote:You dont know what kind of locomotion would be used to move
a laser turret a thousand years from now nor the size of it. It could bio-mechanical and work the same way an eye locks on to movements. Did you know a human eye wanders a bit ... its true :o ... its what makes images like this possible: I don't know for sure ... but i would place good money on the fact that you couldn't find a servo with that kinda control ... ever LOL L0K wrote:But projectiles would get shot down. Even if the projectile travelled at 90% of the speed of light (assuming it could not adjust trajectory at that speed) it's launch and trajectory could be identified and destroyed in a second from a laser based weapon. If the projectile is moving a more reasonable speed, say 20% of the speed of light and has the ability to adjust on the fly it's launch would still be detected and its trajectory calculated instantly from every course correction it made.
Kinda true and kinda false ... the laser definitely could hit a the projectile when it gets closer, but i just highly doubt that the laser would be steady enough or accurate enough to burn it at 1000miles ... Then when you actually hit the projectile you still have to dodge the glob of molten steel or you're dead This means that i could lob a glob of space shit at you at the same speed and it would be just as damaging as its mass in explosives (or more) ... and since there is no atmosphere, its not gonna just "fall out of the sky" ... its still flying at you at X miles a second ... so you might wanna get the hell out of the way I dunno ... i just think that space battles will have to be done at a much shorter range ... like about 100 miles or so ... I simply can't imagine getting that kinda accuracy on anything ... let alone a ship that is moving (and probably) rotating in space ... -- My links:|Xfire|Mars Wars 3|Steam|
My Mod/Game Watches: |Lift Mod|Overgrowth|Airborn|MechOverride|Warm Gun|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW| |
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Aug 19 2009, 3:28pm Anchor | |
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1000000 n[ano]m in 1mm, nano degrees are needed for navigation -- quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images => |
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| Aug 19 2009, 4:09pm Anchor | ||
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p0rt wrote:1000000 n[ano]m in 1mm, nano degrees are needed for navigation
Its called course corrections ... they don't just shoot off rockets with pre-calculated trajectories and expect them to hit without any guidance ... -- My links:|Xfire|Mars Wars 3|Steam|
My Mod/Game Watches: |Lift Mod|Overgrowth|Airborn|MechOverride|Warm Gun|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW| |
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Aug 19 2009, 5:08pm Anchor | |
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Radar Homing missiles if I remember require the attacker to maintain a lock on the enemy or it will lose guidance and miss. Heatseekers look for heat patterns and are guided in by them. However Heatseekers are indiscriminate, they will go after anything as long as the heat signatures are strong enough, and that includes the person firing the missile. -- Can you tell me doctor why I still can't get to sleep? |
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| Aug 19 2009, 7:30pm Anchor | ||
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but they are indeed guided Has anybody wondered why there has been a movement from cannons to guided weapondry? ... i mean there is a reason -- My links:|Xfire|Mars Wars 3|Steam|
My Mod/Game Watches: |Lift Mod|Overgrowth|Airborn|MechOverride|Warm Gun|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW| |
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Aug 19 2009, 9:26pm Anchor | |
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If you stare at that pic the way you stare at those "hidden 3d shape" pictures, then the things don't look like moving. And if you stare at text the same way, then it looks like the text is moving sideways and complete gibberish! -- Quote:How about I give you the phonecall and you give me my finger! |
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Aug 19 2009, 10:13pm Anchor | |
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The problem with space battles is also the fact that you aren't fighting in a black void, there are planets.. stations.. satellites.. lots of things that can potentially hinder your weaponry or it's intended usage (ie. you don't want to hit stray planets within the path of the target.. do you?). --   "There is nothing in a caterpillar that tells you it's going to be a butterfly." |
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| Aug 19 2009, 10:45pm Anchor | ||
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Toyoka wrote:The problem with space battles is also the fact that you aren't fighting in a black void, there are planets.. stations.. satellites.. lots of things that can potentially hinder your weaponry or it's intended usage (ie. you don't want to hit stray planets within the path of the target.. do you?).
yup ... if you were smart you would use that to your advantage .... ive been dying to make a space RTS lately and ive had a couple of ideas in mind of what i want ... but not so much upon the control and gameplay aspect ... Edited by: Assaultman67 |
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Aug 19 2009, 11:51pm Anchor | |
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Assaultman67 wrote:
p0rt wrote:1000000 n[ano]m in 1mm, nano degrees are needed for navigation
Its called course corrections ... they don't just shoot off rockets with pre-calculated trajectories and expect them to hit without any guidance ... your all talking 1000ths/degree, cpu core path/circuit are 16 or 32 nm give or take a few, -- quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images => |
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Aug 20 2009, 12:32am Anchor | |
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Space real time strategies should be 3D with adjustable views and such like World in Conflict. You can zoom into multiple levels, and even go directly in line with the ground and watch units fight (as well as listen to some funny conversations they have.) -- Can you tell me doctor why I still can't get to sleep? |
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Aug 20 2009, 10:03am Anchor | |
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Assaultman67 wrote:
Toyoka wrote:The problem with space battles is also the fact that you aren't fighting in a black void, there are planets.. stations.. satellites.. lots of things that can potentially hinder your weaponry or it's intended usage (ie. you don't want to hit stray planets within the path of the target.. do you?).
yup ... if you were smart you would use that to your advantage .... ive been dying to make a space RTS lately and ive had a couple of ideas in mind of what i want ... but not so much upon the control and gameplay aspect ... I think I know what your thinking -- "There is nothing in a caterpillar that tells you it's going to be a butterfly." |
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Aug 20 2009, 11:03am Anchor | |
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Handgun_Hero wrote:Space real time strategies should be 3D with adjustable views and such like World in Conflict. You can zoom into multiple levels, and even go directly in line with the ground and watch units fight (as well as listen to some funny conversations they have.)
first of all that doesn't really help with understanding actual space combat, and second of all homeworld did that. so did most space rts games -- >>BlueDrake42<<
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| Aug 20 2009, 3:56pm Anchor | ||
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p0rt wrote:
Assaultman67 wrote:
p0rt wrote:1000000 n[ano]m in 1mm, nano degrees are needed for navigation
Its called course corrections ... they don't just shoot off rockets with pre-calculated trajectories and expect them to hit without any guidance ... your all talking 1000ths/degree, cpu core path/circuit are 16 or 32 nm give or take a few, Thats done via photolithography ... a process which doesn't require that kinda precision in mechanical devices ... I remember reading an article about munipulating carbon nanotubes with machinery and there was a line in there about it being like munipulating a grain of sand with a pen ... the machines just can't be that precise ... Also keep in mind that were talking about a very wide range of movement here ... the mechanism needs to be relatively fast (enough to swivel around quickly) but also has to have the precision to lock onto the target down to (probably 10000ths of a degree if you really wanna hit something at 1000 miles ... 1000ths of a degree gets you in the general area ...) maybe if you came up with some sort of tri-servo system for both fast adjustment, regular adjustment, and presice adjustment ... still i have a hard time imagining a precise servo that could move around tons of steel ... sorta like how tweeters, medium range speakers, and woofers are used in speakers to be able to mimic the range of frequencies needed ... Edited by: Assaultman67 |
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Aug 22 2009, 6:30am Anchor | |
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it cant be that hard to make a robot arm that runs purly on hydralics and can move nm in a uni or scitech lab -- quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images => |
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Aug 22 2009, 11:56pm Anchor | |
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p0rt wrote:it cant be that hard to make a robot arm that runs purly on hydralics and can move nm in a uni or scitech lab
Go build one then and get back to us. Simple right? --
Yak.RUS wrote:We had a girl in my school that took LCD and now she thinks shes a balloon for the rest of her life. |
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Aug 23 2009, 12:46am Anchor | |
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Jyffeh wrote:
p0rt wrote:it cant be that hard to make a robot arm that runs purly on hydralics and can move nm in a uni or scitech lab
Go build one then and get back to us. Simple right? would only be non friction titanium ball joints, and computer calculated 1/32mm pressure valves Edited by: p0rt -- quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images => |
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| Aug 24 2009, 11:43am Anchor | ||
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p0rt wrote:it cant be that hard to make a robot arm that runs purly on hydralics and can move nm in a uni or scitech lab
Generally if you have something that moves very small distances, it is a very small/lightweight machine and believe it or not but there is definitely a difference between rotating a joint a 1000ths of a degree than moving an object a 1000ths of an meter ... how would you even implement a position sensor system to determine position down to 1000ths of a degree? greycode strips? HA! Have fun laying down your 19-bit grey-code strips The smaller your joint is the less accurate the rotational measurement would be ... and the larger your joint is the more you have to fight with frictional forces Ugh ... i just thought of how much of a bitch the static/kinetic friction issues for a turret of considerable size Honestly im starting to wonder if you're just trolling me ... LOL I dunno, you would need one hell of a revolutionary position detection and mechanical movement system that actually moves the turret unlike anything we really have ... -- My links:|Xfire|Mars Wars 3|Steam|
My Mod/Game Watches: |Lift Mod|Overgrowth|Airborn|MechOverride|Warm Gun|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW| |
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Aug 24 2009, 1:46pm Anchor | |
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Assaultman67 wrote:
p0rt wrote:it cant be that hard to make a robot arm that runs purly on hydralics and can move nm in a uni or scitech lab
Generally if you have something that moves very small distances, it is a very small/lightweight machine and believe it or not but there is definitely a difference between rotating a joint a 1000ths of a degree than moving an object a 1000ths of an meter ... how would you even implement a position sensor system to determine position down to 1000ths of a degree? greycode strips? HA! Have fun laying down your 19-bit grey-code strips The smaller your joint is the less accurate the rotational measurement would be ... and the larger your joint is the more you have to fight with frictional forces Ugh ... i just thought of how much of a bitch the static/kinetic friction issues for a turret of considerable size Honestly im starting to wonder if you're just trolling me ... LOL I dunno, you would need one hell of a revolutionary position detection and mechanical movement system that actually moves the turret unlike anything we really have ... probaly only need a 12mm ball joint to touchscreen fertilizatiom of embryonic eggs -- quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images => |
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| Aug 26 2009, 11:50am Anchor | ||
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You are trolling me -- My links:|Xfire|Mars Wars 3|Steam|
My Mod/Game Watches: |Lift Mod|Overgrowth|Airborn|MechOverride|Warm Gun|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW| |
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Aug 26 2009, 7:36pm Anchor | |
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Don't feed the troll... let it starve. Yes, I said it. -- "There is nothing in a caterpillar that tells you it's going to be a butterfly." |
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Aug 27 2009, 2:35am Anchor | |
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RAR RAR RAR WHO'S THAT WALKING OVER MY BRIDGE RAR RAR RAR! -- Can you tell me doctor why I still can't get to sleep? |
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