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What do you think Space Warfare will actually be like? (Forums : Cosmos : What do you think Space Warfare will actually be like?) Post Reply
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Tokoya
Tokoya Is Stupendous!
Aug 3 2009, 2:18pm Anchor
Sebbeman wrote:lasers n shit

pew pew


I second that. Pew pew

Aug 4 2009, 3:22am Anchor

Probably long range nuclear rocket fest. Which would be shot down by lasers. Fighters wouldn't be used because then you could self-destruct a rocket that has a nuke and all fighters are eliminated. Then fire more rockets again.
Or a EMP rocket battle which would have low casualties with high amount of enemy ships stolen. Although deck combat might be as bloody.

Then again Rockets might be covered with a special mirror surface which could withstand high amount of heat from non-reflected lasers. So it sounds like submarine battles. Whichever shoots first or with higher arsenal wins the battle.

[Edit]Unless Missile-Defence rockets are used to counter them. Then nuclear and EMP rockets have lasers attached to shoot down incoming Missile-Defence rockets. Then Missile-Defence rockets are layered with mirror surface. Then they both use small projectiles against each other... It's evolution in space! -> Conclusion computer or remote controled bombers. :D

[Non-Edit] Mass projectiles would probably miss ships at long distance and be hardly worth the effort.

Edited by: Pendrokar

Aug 4 2009, 6:41am Anchor

Particle beam. Use a light beam to increase the speed of some dust to near lightspeed and that will hit you with a significant impact.

Aug 4 2009, 9:23am Anchor

Great... you could fight from 10 km to 600'000 km if computer can shoot precisely enough.

Capital ship vs Capital ship at 600'000 km
One shoots particle beams to the other ship and the other has 3 or less seconds to react.
If capital ship speed is fast enought they could actually evade if the computer has control, just by steering a little bit.

But how puny would a 1 km long ship be at 600'000 km range? :D

Toyoka
Toyoka Cpt. Leon Gyroheart
Aug 4 2009, 10:28am Anchor

That's exactly it. You (or rather, the computer) has to be VERY precise. If any small mis-calculation occurs, you're screwed and you've mmost likely given away your position if not your "turn" at firing.

Aug 4 2009, 11:24am Anchor

why are you assuming "One shot"? A particle beam can be fired constantly. Theres no way to evade something like that.

Bluedrake
Bluedrake Homebrewed Badass
Aug 4 2009, 12:44pm Anchor

You'd have to have some really advanced detection and targeting technology
I think the biggest thing will be trying to one-up opponents' stealth technology
cause you have to find what you're shooting at first

Maybe that'll spawn a kindof "Sniper" capital ship into future production
Advanced Radar, or whatever, and a high powered particle beam

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Toyoka
Toyoka Cpt. Leon Gyroheart
Aug 4 2009, 1:57pm Anchor
N0dachi wrote:why are you assuming "One shot"? A particle beam can be fired constantly. Theres no way to evade something like that.


That's not the point, if you "misfire" or miscalculate the location of the ship you're shooting at, you are giving away your location and wasting resources by shooting at nothing. Ideally, you want every hit to be a direct hit so you aren't shooting for nothing.

Aug 4 2009, 2:55pm Anchor
Bluedrake wrote:You'd have to have some really advanced detection and targeting technology
I think the biggest thing will be trying to one-up opponents' stealth technology
cause you have to find what you're shooting at first

Maybe that'll spawn a kindof "Sniper" capital ship into future production
Advanced Radar, or whatever, and a high powered particle beam


Well that would be true. Finding the opponent would be more of a problem then shooting him down.

Aug 5 2009, 1:32am Anchor
Pendrokar wrote:Great... you could fight from 10 km to 600'000 km if computer can shoot precisely enough.

Capital ship vs Capital ship at 600'000 km
One shoots particle beams to the other ship and the other has 3 or less seconds to react.
If capital ship speed is fast enought they could actually evade if the computer has control, just by steering a little bit.

But how puny would a 1 km long ship be at 600'000 km range? :D


Ok ... here's the problem i see ... we're all thinking relatively small aren't we? ... i mean ... who needs a super accurate targeting system when you could send out "mirror drones" to relay the laser "signal" ... which would make the whole thing into a huge game of interstellar cat and mouse :o ... for example

(My ship) --------laser-beam-----------(mirror drone with targeting)------------------------(mirror drone with targeting)--------------(target)

Sorta like the light towers work in Red Alert 2, except there would be only one source (unless some sort of "shared grid" could be used by fleets) and (probably) hundreds of drones set up in a specific pattern

This eliminates issues such as line of sight and the sensitivity needed to target something 1000's of miles away ...

I think drones would have to be used in space combat simply because they would allow the main ship to watch a larger area and also attack a further distance ...

Everyone is thinking "Battleships" when they should be thinking "Carriers"! :P ... WWII was like this ;)

Edited by: Assaultman67

Aug 5 2009, 2:30am Anchor

And what if the Battleship or Carrier is covered in that mirror that the drones use? :P
It bounces off and signal is lost.

Come to think of it ship with light reflective mirrors would be very very hard to see. Sensors would probably be totally bent on heat detection, generated from engines on ships like it is in Mass Effect. Potentially lower the heat to minimum and you're invisible unless very close by!

Aug 5 2009, 2:40am Anchor

The surface of the ship would have to have a perfect mirror ... plating an entire ship would be ... probably impossible

the targeting mirrors used for today's laser tests are like ... developed in static/dust free labs :P ... and even then they heat up when they reflect the light ...

The mirror itself would have to have some sort of shutter over the top to prevent debris from getting on it when not being used ...

Aug 5 2009, 4:59am Anchor

Particle Beams dont care about light reflections. You cant "relay" them either

Edited by: N0dachi

p0rt
p0rt mincemeat n onions
Aug 5 2009, 5:16am Anchor

so how would abit of dust damage a hull made to cope with iron rock 30,000km/s impacts, and you have take in solar storms and black holes, gravitational pulls and magnetic fields, light really isnt a constant, e=Mc2 is absolute nothing in the full quantum equation, you might have light particles blasting out from a star but not from a static source like a tv or a simple spark

Edited by: p0rt

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quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images =>
point release 1.4.2, both sp/mp - new ai tacticles
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Aug 5 2009, 7:16am Anchor
Quote:Particle Beams dont care about light reflections. You cant "relay" them either

I understood he wanted to shoot non-lethal lasers to determine where to fire the Particle Beams!

Toyoka
Toyoka Cpt. Leon Gyroheart
Aug 5 2009, 11:18am Anchor

Guys, we don't even know how spaceships will battle (if they even will) until we get the proper technology. But then I guess fair's fair since most of todays technology was based on Star Trek, which were based on fictional ideas :P

Aug 5 2009, 11:53am Anchor
Quote:Guys, we don't even know how spaceships will battle (if they even will) until we get the proper technology.

I don't get it. Why does that matter? :S

Because battles might take place from planet in one star system to a planet in another star system? By shooting projectiles which go into wormholes and come out on the other side targeting essential structure on or around a planet?

Spaceships would still be used.

BTW I haven't watched a single episode or even the movie of Star Trek!

Toyoka
Toyoka Cpt. Leon Gyroheart
Aug 5 2009, 12:15pm Anchor

Me neither, but the point is; how do we know we will be using "Battleships"? How do we even know we will be using mirrors to deflect lasers and projectiles? We don't even know what's out there and for all we know we might just be fighting something that is highly superior to anything we have knowledge about. Particle Beams? Bah.. we might as well run blindly into battle using plastic sporks because we don't know what we are fighting against. THat is unless, the human race splits up and decides to go rogue on itself. That is only one of many possibilities.

Vangor
Vangor Depravity Inclined Egotistical Savior
Aug 5 2009, 1:54pm Anchor
Toyoka wrote:Bah.. we might as well run blindly into battle using plastic sporks because we don't know what we are fighting against.

Of course no one knows, this is why the topic question is, "What do you think," rather than, "What is currently happening". Hence, talking about random weapons, tools, armor, etc., which might be usable or simply amusing to consider for conflicts in space.

Assaultman67 wrote:This eliminates issues such as line of sight and the sensitivity needed to target something 1000's of miles away ...

I guess I don't know how sophisticated laser targeting systems are currently, but to my knowledge to be any use besides painting a target would need information on what the laser encounters to be sent back, i.e. a reflection or indication the laser strikes a target (for example, shine a laser pointer at a wall, the dot is the information). In such a case, the drone is unnecessary outside of line of sight issues as they'll be subject to the same speed of light and information as an unreflected beam. Further, the drones are less practical unless already placed on the field, which seems absurd anyone would enter such an area, since they wouldn't travel near the speed of light.

Assaultman67 wrote:The surface of the ship would have to have a perfect mirror

If you received information for the purposes of locating targets, doesn't matter what the ship was composed of unless the laser simply could continue uninterrupted. I imagine such a system would be able to detect the striking of the drones you're thinking of.

p0rt wrote:light really isnt a constant, e=Mc2 is absolute nothing in the full quantum equation

Just have to say, I don't believe you know what you're babbling about throughout that run-on sentence.

Aug 5 2009, 2:15pm Anchor

Ok ...

1) i mean the laser as to be the weapon itself ... lasers are already used to cut through things, why not a ship? They already use lasers for cutting steel in industrial applications ... hell there are two laser cutters within a 17 mile radius of me and i live in a pretty rural area :O ... Relay may have been a bad choice of words, that suggests some sort of communication or amplification of a signal after a distance ... These "Relays" would just reduce the targeting precision needed by a guidance system to target another ship at an extreme distance ... instead they would hit a "relay" which targets another "relay" and so on untill they reach their target ...

2) using drones would give the large ship an advantage in defense as well as an advantage attacking because they can scout a larger area faster thus increasing the odds of locating the enemy ship first

3) The mirrors have to be perfect because when the laser hits the mirror all the energy has to be reflected ... dust is bad because instead of reflecting the energy it would absorb it ... causing the dust to heat the mirror up (has anybody seen "Real Genius"? There is a scene where one of the guys puts grease on a lens (i believe) to fuck up his laser)

Edited by: Assaultman67

p0rt
p0rt mincemeat n onions
Aug 5 2009, 9:09pm Anchor

where theres heat theres light, hydrogen is the most common element in the universe-quantum atom is charged it glows, while its warm it might be a constant, then hits a solid or cools and fades, stopping the universe from just being 1 big worthless lightbulb, but then you can always see the source

Edited by: p0rt

--

quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images =>
point release 1.4.2, both sp/mp - new ai tacticles
/physics/weapon settings/huds/fx, adds full multi-position mp vehicles, mp weapon/vehicle flashlights, fp guided projectiles, playerview bloodsplashes, mp model specific lipsynced pain/voice taunts, view frag leader/teambase with salute etc emotes at the end of mp games, 3 mp gametypes - reactor!lastman standing!invisibility, mp sfx - groundshakes!nightmare etc sp ai hearing, and much more and tweaks. no models or maps, just cyber q4 fragfest
download/full info

Aug 6 2009, 8:32am Anchor

Ok granted, you guys dont know how particle beams function. And i dont really know how to tell since "dust" might be bad wording. "Small projectiles" would fit more. Projectiles accelerated up to 300.000 km/s could weigh just a little bit over nothing and would smash through everthing.
And if your going on about quantum theorys, ok light is not a constant. Light speed, though, is absolute.

p0rt
p0rt mincemeat n onions
Aug 6 2009, 8:48am Anchor

hellyeah, its why flying saucers glow or they dont, same species

--

quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images =>
point release 1.4.2, both sp/mp - new ai tacticles
/physics/weapon settings/huds/fx, adds full multi-position mp vehicles, mp weapon/vehicle flashlights, fp guided projectiles, playerview bloodsplashes, mp model specific lipsynced pain/voice taunts, view frag leader/teambase with salute etc emotes at the end of mp games, 3 mp gametypes - reactor!lastman standing!invisibility, mp sfx - groundshakes!nightmare etc sp ai hearing, and much more and tweaks. no models or maps, just cyber q4 fragfest
download/full info

Sigma
Sigma Resident Stepmania Freak :D
Aug 6 2009, 8:54am Anchor
p0rt wrote:hellyeah, its why flying saucers glow or they dont, same species

yay for stereotypes >_>

i think space warfare will be completely silent xP

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p0rt
p0rt mincemeat n onions
Aug 6 2009, 10:41am Anchor
Sigma wrote:
p0rt wrote:hellyeah, its why flying saucers glow or they dont, same species

yay for stereotypes >_>

i think space warfare will be completely silent xP


theres the darkspace ship triangle cigar thing and a few others

--

quake 4 militia rCon 1.7 mod - repacked into pk4s with dds images =>
point release 1.4.2, both sp/mp - new ai tacticles
/physics/weapon settings/huds/fx, adds full multi-position mp vehicles, mp weapon/vehicle flashlights, fp guided projectiles, playerview bloodsplashes, mp model specific lipsynced pain/voice taunts, view frag leader/teambase with salute etc emotes at the end of mp games, 3 mp gametypes - reactor!lastman standing!invisibility, mp sfx - groundshakes!nightmare etc sp ai hearing, and much more and tweaks. no models or maps, just cyber q4 fragfest
download/full info

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