The Obama Deception? Thread

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The Obama Deception? (Forums : Cosmos : The Obama Deception?)	Post Reply
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Bluedrake Homebrewed Badass	Sep 13 2009, 2:07pm Anchor
Youtube.com This has got to be a joke, I haven't watched it all, just cause I think it could be a waste of time. But I read the synopsis and its utterly ridiculous! What disturbs me most is how many people watch and agree with it! I google'd it too, but there's very little official feedback. Is this serious? Cause I'm tired of people fueling these ridiculous conspiracies!
Cryrid 3D Artist	Sep 13 2009, 2:12pm Anchor
Given the amount of idiots in the world, it probably is supposed to be quite serious.
Minuit =]:{O	Sep 13 2009, 3:26pm Anchor
I like the ominous music they added. You're always going to get this from the right when the left are in power, and from the left when the right are in power. It's just how it works. When it boils down to it, the countries aren't really run in any different way no matter which party is in power (at least that's what I've noticed during my life here in England) These "X is going to ruin the country" stories are nothing new and will continue on as long as people are allowed to think for themselves. To be honest, I blame the book 1984. >_> Edited by: Minuit
Frandude Cooler than the other side of a pillow.	Sep 13 2009, 3:39pm Anchor
You blame 1984? I think that's the solution. -- I r gamer emo?
Minuit =]:{O	Sep 13 2009, 3:44pm Anchor
Haha, yep. Ironic, isn't it? --
Mobius89 Abitante a tempo pieno dell'Inferno Dantesco	Sep 13 2009, 4:06pm Anchor
1984 is the only book written by a native speaker of English which has somehow attracted my attention when I got to know it. The book itself may be nothing special and the plot is not what most readers look for, but the message is quite deep and meaningful. :)
JigsawPieces Composer	Sep 20 2009, 11:10am Anchor
Haha I'm reading 1984 again at the moment. I think it's a good book, like Mobius said; it's the message in the book that's important. I really don't understand how 1984 is to blame. Surely it's the idiots out there who can't think for themselves. Most of the people who've the point of view "X is going to ruin the country" are people who heard it from someone else - they didn't evaluate the facts and make an informed decision; just listened to someone else and thought it sounded good. If you're gonna blame 1984 why not blame Brave New World, Enemy Of The State etc as well? "countries aren't really run in any different way no matter which party is in power" I've thought that too, but then again a lot of changes can happen behind the scenes that we might not be aware of. Edited by: JigsawPieces
Minuit =]:{O	Sep 20 2009, 11:23am Anchor
I blame 1984 because idiots who can't think for themselves read it, and, being the idiots that they are, become easily scared by the message and start thinking "Hey, yeah, that's what so-and-so is going to run the country like". Pseudo-intellectuals who think they have the last word because they can quote a work of fiction. Have you never encountered anyone like this in your life before? Because I sure have. --
TakedaKeni Somethin or anotha'	Sep 20 2009, 11:59am Anchor
How about I point out how 1984 is...ya know. Already what the world's turning into. If you think about it, SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE, read that book and went "Hey, thats a good idea!" and convinced the rest of whoever that it was, indeed, a good idea. That's how 1984 is to blame. But, it's also an important piece of work, since it shows the masses that an idea like that is just plain wrong, keeping people from openly making policies and such that can mimic that. Key word, openly. Thats all I have to say. And I know its badly worded. Bleh. -- <[[iframe]] src="http://gamercard.xbox.com/fallout81.card" scrolling="no" frameBorder="0" height="140" width="204">
TheHappyFriar :)	Sep 20 2009, 12:02pm Anchor
people believe valve, why shouldn't they believe this video or oboma? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?! Remember, it was supposed to be released in September 2003! Maybe a better video would be Valve's marketing/dev of HL2 & source games compared to oboma's political stragity/tactics: valve had a hacker "delay the game", oboma has the opposition isn't going to "support anything" on healthcare. Amazing! -- Go play some Quake 2: q2server.fuzzylogicinc.com It's like Source v0.9, only... better! Play Paintball for Doom 3!: d3server.fuzzylogicinc.com Doom 3 Paintball to the Max!
Cryrid 3D Artist	Sep 20 2009, 12:09pm Anchor
And then HL2 came out and was an amazing game. Give public healthcare a try
Assaultman67	Sep 20 2009, 3:06pm Anchor
Give social security a try ... You shouldn't just approve of goverment programs like this so readily ... They should be heavily scrutinized ... things like this can be easily munipulated and corrupted. Edited by: Assaultman67
JigsawPieces Composer	Sep 20 2009, 3:45pm Anchor
"I blame 1984 because idiots who can't think for themselves read it, and, being the idiots that they are, become easily scared by the message and start thinking "Hey, yeah, that's what so-and-so is going to run the country like"." Haha, that sounds like my mother. She thinks every Muslim is a terrorist "Pseudo-intellectuals who think they have the last word because they can quote a work of fiction. Have you never encountered anyone like this in your life before? Because I sure have." I think I understand what you meant now. Unfortunately I know many people like that. It's so painful hearing someone quote something from a novel that is irrelevant to the argument, and assuming the reason it's gone silent is because they've said something profound and deep. Still, it's not actually the books fault, the blame still lies with the idiots but yeah I agree with you.
Cryrid 3D Artist	Sep 20 2009, 5:23pm Anchor
Quote:Give social security a try ... Have been for many years. It's been working out pretty nicely. Quote:You shouldn't just approve of goverment programs like this so readily ... They should be heavily scrutinized ... things like this can be easily munipulated and corrupted. Thats what people do. You're going to have one hell of a hard battle creating something that can't be taken advantage of. Its like software or recording companies trying to create something that can't be pirated or exploited, good luck. I would think the current system is already corrupt (rescission, medical fees, lobbyists, generous campaign contributions, etc). As a result, it just seems you have a public health care option that could help millions of people, being resisted by the people benefiting from current corruption, and the herd of idiots who think Fox is news.
Minuit =]:{O	Sep 20 2009, 5:39pm Anchor
People can say what they like about the NHS (Our free healthcare system in Britain that the Americans so heavily criticised when referring to Obama's plan) but people are very likely to change their tune once they wake up in hospital, successfully treated after suffering a heart attack. Me? I think it's fucking great. I've never needed it so far, other than for things like suspected fractures and the like, and I definitely wouldn't have it any other way. The thought of people being denied access to healthcare because they can't afford it is a scary prospect. If people want socialised healthcare to work, then they also need to criticise themselves, not the system. Part of the problem is that people are just fat, unhealthy fucks who are just almost literally begging for health complications, like heart attacks, diabetes and the like. (Apparently 1 in 3 adults will be obese by 2012) Edited by: Minuit
Mr_Cyberpunk Game Developer	Sep 20 2009, 8:31pm Anchor
Someone wrote:And then HL2 came out and was an amazing game. Give public healthcare a try then remember when everyone started using Source, and then everyone made nothing but StarGate, Zombie and Naruto mods. There's your socialism right there! lol Where's Episode 3... --
Cryrid 3D Artist	Sep 21 2009, 6:10am Anchor
Yeah, but that's uncreative modders. Otherwise Source-based games (especially from Valve) have been doing pretty well for themselves. One could even make the tie between those whining about L4D2 and those whining about a public health option, as both sides can not seem to grasp the concept of something being optional .
Pendrokar	Sep 21 2009, 10:08am Anchor
Quote:This movie is not about left or right. Good for all people? => That's left alright!!! Seems those guys want absolute democracy. Well good luck for them reading long pages about proposed laws every night.
Assaultman67	Sep 21 2009, 11:25am Anchor
Cryrid wrote: Quote:Give social security a try ... Have been for many years. It's been working out pretty nicely. No .. no its not ... The program is hemorrhaging money to other unrelated projects ... The program was designed to give financial security to people for welfare, disability, and retirement ... thats it ... The problem is that over time the goverment has been stealing money from that program to pay for other pet projects without having to up the tax rate (thus making themselves look freakin' awesome to the public ... "new goverment programs without raising taxes!?!? Hurr Durr OK!") The idea of the social security fund was a good one ... in theory, problem is that the american people in general just aren't responsible enough to not touch saved up money ... and if the people are like that ... so is the goverment since its ran by the people Now the social security fund is more like a tax than a security fund ... since the money in the fund is being spent as fast (if not faster) than it comes in, you will see a very very little amount of your money come back (if not none) when you retire ... Cryrid wrote: Quote:You shouldn't just approve of goverment programs like this so readily ... They should be heavily scrutinized ... things like this can be easily munipulated and corrupted. Thats what people do. You're going to have one hell of a hard battle creating something that can't be taken advantage of. Its like software or recording companies trying to create something that can't be pirated or exploited, good luck. I would think the current system is already corrupt (rescission, medical fees, lobbyists, generous campaign contributions, etc). As a result, it just seems you have a public health care option that could help millions of people, being resisted by the people benefiting from current corruption, and the herd of idiots who think Fox is news. But in this case, its the software company that is exploiting their own software ... but you have the option to not install it Yes, public health care is a good idea, but only if we can be responsible enough to leave the damn money that was saved up alone! The US is currently in debt ... and you think that this program won't be exploited? How niave are you? Of course the program will be exploited ... its going to be spent as soon as it comes in and ... that thought seriously disturbs me ... Millions of people out there with a false sense of security that if something bad were to happen to them and they go to the hospital, the goverment will pay all their bills ... damn ... Whats likely to happen is that the goverment will only pay a small portion of the bill ... like 25% of it ... and pocket the rest of the incoming money Insurance companies, casinos, and social security have one thing in common ... they're run for a profit ... meaning you are very unlikely to get more money out of it than you put in ... Edited by: Assaultman67
Cryrid 3D Artist	Sep 21 2009, 12:30pm Anchor
Quote:The program is hemorrhaging money to other unrelated projects ... The program was designed to give financial security to people for welfare, disability, and retirement ... thats it ... Hence it is working out. This next one will explain it: Quote:in theory, problem is that the american people in general just aren't responsible enough to not touch saved up money . Not American. It works in theory, and it works in other countries. If its keeping 40% of Americans over the age of 65 out of poverty in your country as well, it sounds like it might be working there too. If a government can't pull it off, then they'd be the idiots trying to install HL2 on hardware not meant for it Luckily, the ol' dollar has been pretty harsh to people lately, and the concept of using money wisely is a bit more drilled into people's minds. Quote:The US is currently in debt ... and you think that this program won't be exploited? How niave are you? I'd say (along with experience) that these things are far more likely to be exploited when money is flowing freely. When your country is in debt and that is all your news agencies drone on about for months, and then comes the idea to rewrite the existing healthcare system (which involves spending even more money, not siphoning it away), you can be pretty sure there are going to be watchdogs over every inch of this thing. Just look at the current opposition the administration is getting, even on issues that don't exist and facts that are false. When you already have people calling you Hitler and carrying guns to their rallies, you would have to have a serious case of titanium balls to introduce bills like this in today's economic crisis with any intent on exploiting it for money. You want to talk about someone being naive? Let them try to dip their hands into this cookie jar. It will be taken advantage of, by the millions of Americans who need it and don't currently have it. And that's a good thing. Quote:Whats likely to happen is that the goverment will only pay a small portion of the bill ... like 25% of it ... and pocket the rest of the incoming money Even this random scenerio sounds peachy actually. Because here we have people getting smaller medical bills while helping to reduce your debt. Compared to the current unexploited system where people could be spending money on their health insurance, only to have it recissioned when they are in need of the help. Edited by: Cryrid
Assaultman67	Sep 21 2009, 1:31pm Anchor
Cryrid wrote:Hence it is working out... No, its not ... back when it first started it was pretty good, the system ran at a profit because there was a large amount of money saved up and invested ... so they're like "hey! lets spend this extra money!" ... but once they dipped in they couldn't stop spending money ... Now our social security system is running at a loss, and there is a large population that is about to reach retirement age (baby boomers) Cryrid wrote:Not American. It works in theory, and it works in other countries. If its keeping 40% of Americans over the age of 65 out of poverty in your country as well, it sounds like it might be working there too. Where are you getting the 40% statistic? Cryrid wrote:Luckily, the ol' dollar has been pretty harsh to people lately, and the concept of using money wisely is a bit more drilled into people's minds. Somewhat ... i'd say not really though ... I kinda think that people are trying to save money because they are told its the responsible thing ... not because they think its the responsible thing to do ... it seems like being thrifty and saving your money is almost a fad Cryrid wrote:The US is currently in debt ... and you think that this program won't be exploited? How niave are you? I'd say (along with experience) that these things are far more likely to be exploited when money is flowing freely. When your country is in debt and that is all your news agencies drone on about for months, and then comes the idea to rewrite the existing healthcare system (which involves spending even more money, not siphoning it away), you can be pretty sure there are going to be watchdogs over every inch of this thing. Just look at the current opposition the administration is getting, even on issues that don't exist and facts that are false. When you already have people calling you Hitler and carrying guns to their rallies, you would have to have a serious case of titanium balls to introduce bills like this in today's economic crisis with any intent on exploiting it for money. You want to talk about someone being naive? Let them try to dip their hands into this cookie jar. It will be taken advantage of, by the millions of Americans who need it and don't currently have it. And that's a good thing. You think so? because i think that in general the citizens of the US don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to paying attention to goverment finance ... and thats pretty much been proven by the passing of TARP in this economic crisis ... crap i gotta go ... ill come back to this debate later ... -- My links:\|Xfire\|Mars Wars 3\|Steam\| My Mod/Game Watches: \|Lift Mod\|Overgrowth\|Airborn\|MechOverride\|Warm Gun\|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW\|
Cryrid 3D Artist	Sep 21 2009, 3:27pm Anchor
Quote:No, its not ... back when it first started it was pretty good Yes, yes it does. Remember, I said its been treating me well, and things like UI and CPP have been doing the same for my relatives and friends Quote:Where are you getting the 40% statistic? Boston: Economic Affairs Bureau. Not sure where they got their info from. Quote:You think so? because i think that in general the citizens of the US don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to paying attention to goverment finance Generally thats probably the case. However, lately citizens have been getting quite zealous about their politics (the bickering is bad enough that my media seems to be saturated with it). They're already fired up as is, and I can only imagine what kind of ammo something like this would provide them with.
Assaultman67	Sep 22 2009, 7:57pm Anchor
Cryrid wrote: Quote:You think so? because i think that in general the citizens of the US don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to paying attention to goverment finance Generally thats probably the case. However, lately citizens have been getting quite zealous about their politics (the bickering is bad enough that my media seems to be saturated with it). They're already fired up as is, and I can only imagine what kind of ammo something like this would provide them with. Hmm ... i just realized this is just a kinda a futile debate ... its the regular "Pessimistic vs. Optimistic" debate ... -- My links:\|Xfire\|Mars Wars 3\|Steam\| My Mod/Game Watches: \|Lift Mod\|Overgrowth\|Airborn\|MechOverride\|Warm Gun\|Star Trek: Enterprise - TCW\|
Feillyne a fanatical assassin	Dec 6 2009, 12:39pm Anchor
Well, I had read before Obama's election what he would do, and well, he did most of it. Most of what was supposed to be done by a successor of George W. Bush. Not all yet. Yet. Don't want to talk about it. You probably know these things, you just don't seem to notice how they're coming to the reality... and how the reality changes. You wouldn't call anybody an "idiot". = / I just hope many of these things won't happen, but this doesn't matter anymore. Edited by: Feillyne
Assaultman67	Dec 8 2009, 11:28am Anchor
Feillyne wrote:Well, I had read before Obama's election what he would do, and well, he did most of it. Most of what was supposed to be done by a successor of George W. Bush. And that was? (obviously the health care stuff ... but it would be nice to have a list of the objectives he wanted to complete while in office) I think people are still kinda caught up in the "approval" period of the presidents term ... Approval ratings or presidents In general, there is a historical downtrend after people realize the presidents aren't making their lives better ... (keep in mind that some of these fluctuations are based upon historical events that rallied people together (9/11) or made them angry at the president (the watergate scandal) ... The most surprizing one ive seen so far is clinton ... simply because his approval ratings were going up even with the monica lewinski stuff going on at the time ... I guess that means if you're president you will get good approval ratings if you have an affair ... Edited by: Assaultman67

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Bluedrake Homebrewed Badass

Sep 13 2009, 2:07pm Anchor

Youtube.com
This has got to be a joke, I haven't watched it all, just cause I think it could be a waste of time.
But I read the synopsis and its utterly ridiculous! What disturbs me most is how many people watch and agree with it!
I google'd it too, but there's very little official feedback.
Is this serious? Cause I'm tired of people fueling these ridiculous conspiracies!

Cryrid 3D Artist

Sep 13 2009, 2:12pm Anchor

Given the amount of idiots in the world, it probably is supposed to be quite serious.

Minuit =]:{O

Sep 13 2009, 3:26pm Anchor

I like the ominous music they added. You're always going to get this from the right when the left are in power, and from the left when the right are in power. It's just how it works. When it boils down to it, the countries aren't really run in any different way no matter which party is in power (at least that's what I've noticed during my life here in England)

These "X is going to ruin the country" stories are nothing new and will continue on as long as people are allowed to think for themselves. To be honest, I blame the book 1984. >_>

Edited by: Minuit

Frandude Cooler than the other side of a pillow.

Sep 13 2009, 3:39pm Anchor

You blame 1984? I think that's the solution.

--

I r gamer emo?

Minuit =]:{O

Sep 13 2009, 3:44pm Anchor

Haha, yep. Ironic, isn't it?

--

Mobius89 Abitante a tempo pieno dell'Inferno Dantesco

Sep 13 2009, 4:06pm Anchor

1984 is the only book written by a native speaker of English which has somehow attracted my attention when I got to know it. The book itself may be nothing special and the plot is not what most readers look for, but the message is quite deep and meaningful. :)

JigsawPieces Composer

Sep 20 2009, 11:10am Anchor

Haha I'm reading 1984 again at the moment. I think it's a good book, like Mobius said; it's the message in the book that's important. I really don't understand how 1984 is to blame. Surely it's the idiots out there who can't think for themselves. Most of the people who've the point of view "X is going to ruin the country" are people who heard it from someone else - they didn't evaluate the facts and make an informed decision; just listened to someone else and thought it sounded good.

If you're gonna blame 1984 why not blame Brave New World, Enemy Of The State etc as well?

"countries aren't really run in any different way no matter which party is in power" I've thought that too, but then again a lot of changes can happen behind the scenes that we might not be aware of.

Edited by: JigsawPieces

Minuit =]:{O

Sep 20 2009, 11:23am Anchor

I blame 1984 because idiots who can't think for themselves read it, and, being the idiots that they are, become easily scared by the message and start thinking "Hey, yeah, that's what so-and-so is going to run the country like". Pseudo-intellectuals who think they have the last word because they can quote a work of fiction. Have you never encountered anyone like this in your life before? Because I sure have.

--

TakedaKeni Somethin or anotha'

Sep 20 2009, 11:59am Anchor

How about I point out how 1984 is...ya know. Already what the world's turning into. If you think about it, SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE, read that book and went "Hey, thats a good idea!" and convinced the rest of whoever that it was, indeed, a good idea.

That's how 1984 is to blame. But, it's also an important piece of work, since it shows the masses that an idea like that is just plain wrong, keeping people from openly making policies and such that can mimic that. Key word, openly.

Thats all I have to say. And I know its badly worded. Bleh.

--

<[[iframe]] src="http://gamercard.xbox.com/fallout81.card" scrolling="no" frameBorder="0" height="140" width="204">

TheHappyFriar :)

Sep 20 2009, 12:02pm Anchor

people believe valve, why shouldn't they believe this video or oboma? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

Remember, it was supposed to be released in September 2003!

Maybe a better video would be Valve's marketing/dev of HL2 & source games compared to oboma's political stragity/tactics: valve had a hacker "delay the game", oboma has the opposition isn't going to "support anything" on healthcare.

Amazing!

--

Go play some Quake 2: q2server.fuzzylogicinc.com
It's like Source v0.9, only... better!
Play Paintball for Doom 3!: d3server.fuzzylogicinc.com
Doom 3 Paintball to the Max!

Cryrid 3D Artist

Sep 20 2009, 12:09pm Anchor

And then HL2 came out and was an amazing game. Give public healthcare a try

Assaultman67

Sep 20 2009, 3:06pm Anchor

Give social security a try ...

You shouldn't just approve of goverment programs like this so readily ... They should be heavily scrutinized ... things like this can be easily munipulated and corrupted.

Edited by: Assaultman67

JigsawPieces Composer

Sep 20 2009, 3:45pm Anchor

"I blame 1984 because idiots who can't think for themselves read it,
and, being the idiots that they are, become easily scared by the
message and start thinking "Hey, yeah, that's what so-and-so is going to run the country like"."

Haha, that sounds like my mother. She thinks every Muslim is a terrorist O_o

"Pseudo-intellectuals who think they have the last word because they can quote a work of fiction. Have you never encountered anyone like this in
your life before? Because I sure have."

I think I understand what you meant now. Unfortunately I know many people like that. It's so painful hearing someone quote something from a novel that is irrelevant to the argument, and assuming the reason it's gone silent is because they've said something profound and deep. Still, it's not actually the books fault, the blame still lies with the idiots but yeah I agree with you.

Cryrid 3D Artist

Sep 20 2009, 5:23pm Anchor

Quote:Give social security a try

...

Have been for many years. It's been working out pretty nicely.

Quote:You shouldn't just approve of goverment programs like this so readily ... They should be heavily scrutinized ... things like this can be easily munipulated and corrupted.

Thats what people do. You're going to have one hell of a hard battle creating something that can't be taken advantage of. Its like software or recording companies trying to create something that can't be pirated or exploited, good luck. I would think the current system is already corrupt (rescission, medical fees, lobbyists, generous campaign contributions, etc). As a result, it just seems you have a public health care option that could help millions of people, being resisted by the people benefiting from current corruption, and the herd of idiots who think Fox is news.

Minuit =]:{O

Sep 20 2009, 5:39pm Anchor

People can say what they like about the NHS (Our free healthcare system in Britain that the Americans so heavily criticised when referring to Obama's plan) but people are very likely to change their tune once they wake up in hospital, successfully treated after suffering a heart attack.

Me? I think it's fucking great. I've never needed it so far, other than for things like suspected fractures and the like, and I definitely wouldn't have it any other way. The thought of people being denied access to healthcare because they can't afford it is a scary prospect.

If people want socialised healthcare to work, then they also need to criticise themselves, not the system. Part of the problem is that people are just fat, unhealthy fucks who are just almost literally begging for health complications, like heart attacks, diabetes and the like. (Apparently 1 in 3 adults will be obese by 2012)

Edited by: Minuit

Mr_Cyberpunk Game Developer

Sep 20 2009, 8:31pm Anchor

Someone wrote:And then HL2 came out and was an amazing game. Give public healthcare a try

then remember when everyone started using Source, and then everyone made nothing but StarGate, Zombie and Naruto mods.

There's your socialism right there! lol

Where's Episode 3...

--

Cryrid 3D Artist

Sep 21 2009, 6:10am Anchor

Yeah, but that's uncreative modders. Otherwise Source-based games (especially from Valve) have been doing pretty well for themselves.
One could even make the tie between those whining about L4D2 and those whining about a public health option, as both sides can not seem to grasp the concept of something being optional .

Pendrokar

Sep 21 2009, 10:08am Anchor

Quote:This movie is not about left or right.

Good for all people? => That's left alright!!!

Seems those guys want absolute democracy. Well good luck for them reading long pages about proposed laws every night.

Assaultman67

Sep 21 2009, 11:25am Anchor

Cryrid wrote:

Quote:Give social security a try

...

Have been for many years. It's been working out pretty nicely.

No .. no its not :paranoid: ... The program is hemorrhaging money to other unrelated projects ... The program was designed to give financial security to people for welfare, disability, and retirement ... thats it ...

The problem is that over time the goverment has been stealing money from that program to pay for other pet projects without having to up the tax rate (thus making themselves look freakin' awesome to the public ... "new goverment programs without raising taxes!?!? Hurr Durr OK!")

The idea of the social security fund was a good one ... in theory, problem is that the american people in general just aren't responsible enough to not touch saved up money ... and if the people are like that ... so is the goverment since its ran by the people

Now the social security fund is more like a tax than a security fund ... since the money in the fund is being spent as fast (if not faster) than it comes in, you will see a very very little amount of your money come back (if not none) when you retire ...

Cryrid wrote:

Quote:You shouldn't just approve of goverment programs like this so readily ... They should be heavily scrutinized ... things like this can be easily munipulated and corrupted.

Thats what people do. You're going to have one hell of a hard battle creating something that can't be taken advantage of. Its like software or recording companies trying to create something that can't be pirated or exploited, good luck. I would think the current system is already corrupt (rescission, medical fees, lobbyists, generous campaign contributions, etc). As a result, it just seems you have a public health care option that could help millions of people, being resisted by the people benefiting from current corruption, and the herd of idiots who think Fox is news.

But in this case, its the software company that is exploiting their own software ... but you have the option to not install it

Yes, public health care is a good idea, but only if we can be responsible enough to leave the damn money that was saved up alone!

The US is currently in debt ... and you think that this program won't be exploited? How niave are you?

Of course the program will be exploited ... its going to be spent as soon as it comes in and ... that thought seriously disturbs me ...

Millions of people out there with a false sense of security that if something bad were to happen to them and they go to the hospital, the goverment will pay all their bills ... damn ...

Whats likely to happen is that the goverment will only pay a small portion of the bill ... like 25% of it ... and pocket the rest of the incoming money

Insurance companies, casinos, and social security have one thing in common ... they're run for a profit ... meaning you are very unlikely to get more money out of it than you put in ...

Edited by: Assaultman67

Cryrid 3D Artist

Sep 21 2009, 12:30pm Anchor

Quote:The program is hemorrhaging money to other unrelated projects ... The program was designed to give financial security to people for welfare, disability, and retirement ... thats it ...

Hence it is working out. This next one will explain it:

Quote:in theory, problem is that the american people in general just aren't responsible enough to not touch saved up money .

Not American.
It works in theory, and it works in other countries. If its keeping 40% of Americans over the age of 65 out of poverty in your country as well, it sounds like it might be working there too. If a government can't pull it off, then they'd be the idiots trying to install HL2 on hardware not meant for it

Luckily, the ol' dollar has been pretty harsh to people lately, and the concept of using money wisely is a bit more drilled into people's minds.

Quote:The US is currently in debt ... and you think that this program won't be exploited? How niave are you?

I'd say (along with experience) that these things are far more likely to be exploited when money is flowing freely. When your country is in debt and that is all your news agencies drone on about for months, and then comes the idea to rewrite the existing healthcare system (which involves spending even more money, not siphoning it away), you can be pretty sure there are going to be watchdogs over every inch of this thing. Just look at the current opposition the administration is getting, even on issues that don't exist and facts that are false. When you already have people calling you Hitler and carrying guns to their rallies, you would have to have a serious case of titanium balls to introduce bills like this in today's economic crisis with any intent on exploiting it for money. You want to talk about someone being naive? Let them try to dip their hands into this cookie jar.

It will be taken advantage of, by the millions of Americans who need it and don't currently have it. And that's a good thing.

Quote:Whats likely to happen is that the goverment will only pay a small portion of the bill ... like 25% of it ... and pocket the rest of the incoming money

Even this random scenerio sounds peachy actually. Because here we have people getting smaller medical bills while helping to reduce your debt. Compared to the current unexploited system where people could be spending money on their health insurance, only to have it recissioned when they are in need of the help.

Edited by: Cryrid

Assaultman67

Sep 21 2009, 1:31pm Anchor

Cryrid wrote:Hence it is working out...

No, its not ... back when it first started it was pretty good, the system ran at a profit because there was a large amount of money saved up and invested ... so they're like "hey! lets spend this extra money!" ... but once they dipped in they couldn't stop spending money ...

Now our social security system is running at a loss, and there is a large population that is about to reach retirement age (baby boomers)

Cryrid wrote:Not American.
It works in theory, and it works in other countries. If its keeping 40% of Americans over the age of 65 out of poverty in your country as well, it sounds like it might be working there too.

Where are you getting the 40% statistic?

Cryrid wrote:Luckily, the ol' dollar has been pretty harsh to people lately, and the concept of using money wisely is a bit more drilled into people's minds.

Somewhat ... i'd say not really though ... I kinda think that people are trying to save money because they are told its the responsible thing ... not because they think its the responsible thing to do ... it seems like being thrifty and saving your money is almost a fad -_-

Cryrid wrote:The US is currently in debt ... and you think that this program won't be exploited? How niave are you?

I'd say (along with experience) that these things are far more likely to be exploited when money is flowing freely. When your country is in debt and that is all your news agencies drone on about for months, and then comes the idea to rewrite the existing healthcare system (which involves spending even more money, not siphoning it away), you can be pretty sure there are going to be watchdogs over every inch of this thing. Just look at the current opposition the administration is getting, even on issues that don't exist and facts that are false. When you already have people calling you Hitler and carrying guns to their rallies, you would have to have a serious case of titanium balls to introduce bills like this in today's economic crisis with any intent on exploiting it for money. You want to talk about someone being naive? Let them try to dip their hands into this cookie jar.

It will be taken advantage of, by the millions of Americans who need it and don't currently have it. And that's a good thing.

You think so? because i think that in general the citizens of the US don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to paying attention to goverment finance ... and thats pretty much been proven by the passing of TARP in this economic crisis ...

crap i gotta go -_- ... ill come back to this debate later ...

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Cryrid 3D Artist

Sep 21 2009, 3:27pm Anchor

Quote:No, its not ... back when it first started it was pretty good

Yes, yes it does. Remember, I said its been treating me well, and things like UI and CPP have been doing the same for my relatives and friends

Quote:Where are you getting the 40% statistic?

Boston: Economic Affairs Bureau. Not sure where they got their info from.

Quote:You think so? because i think that in general the citizens of the US don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to paying attention to goverment finance

Generally thats probably the case. However, lately citizens have been getting quite zealous about their politics (the bickering is bad enough that my media seems to be saturated with it). They're already fired up as is, and I can only imagine what kind of ammo something like this would provide them with.

Assaultman67

Sep 22 2009, 7:57pm Anchor

Cryrid wrote:

Quote:You think so? because i think that in general the citizens of the US don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to paying attention to goverment finance

Generally thats probably the case. However, lately citizens have been getting quite zealous about their politics (the bickering is bad enough that my media seems to be saturated with it). They're already fired up as is, and I can only imagine what kind of ammo something like this would provide them with.

Hmm ... i just realized this is just a kinda a futile debate ...

its the regular "Pessimistic vs. Optimistic" debate ...

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Feillyne a fanatical assassin

Dec 6 2009, 12:39pm Anchor

Well, I had read before Obama's election what he would do, and well, he did most of it. Most of what was supposed to be done by a successor of George W. Bush.

Not all yet. Yet. Don't want to talk about it. You probably know these things, you just don't seem to notice how they're coming to the reality... and how the reality changes. You wouldn't call anybody an "idiot". = / I just hope many of these things won't happen, but this doesn't matter anymore.

Edited by: Feillyne

Assaultman67

Dec 8 2009, 11:28am Anchor

Feillyne wrote:Well, I had read before Obama's election what he would do, and well, he did most of it. Most of what was supposed to be done by a successor of George W. Bush.

And that was? (obviously the health care stuff ... but it would be nice to have a list of the objectives he wanted to complete while in office)

I think people are still kinda caught up in the "approval" period of the presidents term ...

Approval ratings or presidents

In general, there is a historical downtrend after people realize the presidents aren't making their lives better ... (keep in mind that some of these fluctuations are based upon historical events that rallied people together (9/11) or made them angry at the president (the watergate scandal) ...

The most surprizing one ive seen so far is clinton ... simply because his approval ratings were going up even with the monica lewinski stuff going on at the time ... I guess that means if you're president you will get good approval ratings if you have an affair ...

Edited by: Assaultman67