Poisoning the well Thread

What does Duke Nukem Forever and Papo and Yo have in common? Both have poisoned wells.

Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy where someone discredits differing opinions beforehand. I've heard alot of bad things about Duke Nukem Forever, but I've heard very little about the gameplay. The main issue people seems to have with it is the over the top, juvanile macho humour. If you like the game and are over the age of 13, you are an arsehole. Thing is, it's Duke Nukem, you are going in expecting that. It's like buying a World War 2 game and complaining about their being Nazis in it.

The other game I mentioned is a PS3 game inspired by the child abuse the developer suffered. Why bring that up? As far as I can tell it's to silence any negative opinions. Read the comments on any story about the game, and you will see people praising the games moral and emotional depth. I haven't played it, they haven't played it, but already nobody dare says "It doesn't sound that great from the previews. Just another physics puzzle game." Another game like this is Braid, a game I played once and didn't think much of. Whenever I or someone else says they don't like that game, the replies will claim that the people who don't like the game not because it wasn't fun for that person, rather bacause they are idiot who doesn't 'get' the games message and only wants to shoot aliens rather then think.

I don't like these attitudes as it attempts to bully people into silence. "Have this opinion or you are an idiot." seems to be how it goes.

I never got the message in Braid, and found the story books pretty tedious. I loved the game mechanics and the puzzle play though

SabreXT wrote: I've heard alot of bad things about Duke Nukem Forever, but I've heard very little about the gameplay..

Then you must not have read many reviews ... I wont bother digging through them all to find the relevant quotes, but some of the common complaints have been :

- Bad pacing
- Lengthy , unskippable scripted sequences.
- Linear level design
- Unnecessary weapon carry limit.
- Too many jumping puzzles
- Too many driving sections
- Inconsistent hit detection
- Clunky aiming and movement.

If those issues weren't there i'm sure folks would be more forgiving of duke's 'Macho humor' . Not that the humor is very macho in DNF, or particularly humorous. But that's just my opinion ...

Edited by: AJ_Quick

You shouldn't have to dig through the review to find the opinions on the gameplay imo. Even so, the comments about the humour dwarf the gameplay stuff.

SabreXT wrote:
I don't like these attitudes as it attempts to bully people into silence. "Have this opinion or you are an idiot." seems to be how it goes.

Isn't that true of many of the the Pro-Duke crowd too? "If you don't like this game you're a boring old asshole who needs to lighten up" is a common theme. Isn't that "poisoning the well" against the opinion that DNF is actually a bit shit?

SabreXT wrote: You shouldn't have to dig through the review to find the opinions on the gameplay imo. Even so, the comments about the humour dwarf the gameplay stuff.

I love politically incorrect humor, but I didn't find anything even remotely funny about Duke. I feel that it tries too hard, and when you're aware that someone is trying to be funny, they cease to be funny. That's my opinion , and it happens to be shared by a number of reviewers. If it entertained you , congratulations. I guess your brain is wired in a particular way that out of date pop culture references and creepy misogynism are the funniest thing ever. For the rest of us it wasn't.

But that's neither here nor there. The volume of hate leveled against duke was primarily a result of its shoddy construction, marketing hype, and high asking price. The humor fail was just icing on a turd cake.

Edited by: AJ_Quick

Gibberstein wrote:

SabreXT wrote:
I don't like these attitudes as it attempts to bully people into silence. "Have this opinion or you are an idiot." seems to be how it goes.

Isn't that true of many of the the Pro-Duke crowd too? "If you don't like this game you're a boring old asshole who needs to lighten up" is a common theme. Isn't that "poisoning the well" against the opinion that DNF is actually a bit shit?

I've never heard that, but yes, that would be the same.

AJ_Quick wrote:
I love politically incorrect humor, but I didn't find anything even remotely funny about Duke. I feel that it tries too hard, and when you're aware that someone is trying to be funny, they cease to be funny. That's my opinion , and it happens to be shared by a number of reviewers. If it entertained you , congratulations. I guess your brain is wired in a particular way that out of date pop culture references and creepy misogynism are the funniest thing ever. For the rest of us it wasn't.

But that's neither here nor there. The volume of hate leveled against duke was primarily a result of its shoddy construction, marketing hype, and high asking price. The humor fail was just icing on a turd cake.

I've not played it. I don't know if the jokes are funny or not. That's your opinion on the game, and that's fair enough, but you kind of proved the point I was getting at.
"If it entertained you , congratulations. I guess your brain is wired in a particular way that out of date pop culture references and creepy misogynism are the funniest thing ever."
There have been alot of unfunny games, but people who find matt hazard or Jolly Rover funny aren't insulted for having that opinion. It's not high brow, therefore anyone who likes it is dumb.

Edited by: SabreXT

- edit : You know what, Gibby beat me to it.

Edited by: AJ_Quick

Someone wrote:
I love politically incorrect humor, but I didn't find anything even remotely funny about Duke. I feel that it tries too hard, and when you're aware that someone is trying to be funny, they cease to be funny. That's my opinion , and it happens to be shared by a number of reviewers. If it entertained you , congratulations. I guess your brain is wired in a particular way that out of date pop culture references and creepy misogynism are the funniest thing ever. For the rest of us it wasn't.

^This, so true.

As for gameplay itself, I can summarize it instantly, RAIL-SHOOTER, one of the worst I've seen in fact, its inconsistant design forces it down paths where by you're not really shooting at things rather doing other stuff like driving cars, or doing space invader like gameplay.. for the rest of the game the process is "enter room, baddies spawn, shoot baddies, other door opens." rince and repeat, there's no limitation of ammo since ammo can be found eveywhere and in unlimited supply, you can only hold 2 weapons at a time thus punnishing choice of weapon (as pretty much no matter what you're going to go with 1 gun to kill the easy guys so you dont waste bullets, and another gun for the bigger bosses- I got through most of the game using this before I got bored and rage quit).

This game isn't fun, there's a lot of problems with Duke as a character now, that anyone that was a fan of Duke 1 Duke 2 and Duke3D would be offended, Duke Nukem is not the same guy anymore, he's more in line with the spinoff games like Planet of the Babes ect (which were shit!).

/Rant Off.