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Mass Effect 3 endings discussion (spoilers! If you couldn't figure that out!) (Forums : Cosmos : Mass Effect 3 endings discussion (spoilers! If you couldn't figure that out!)) Locked
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Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 18 2012, 8:00pm Anchor

We all saw this coming. The Mass Effect 2 DLC showed us ahead of time that Bioware was going to sacrifice choice for drama. I was personally bewildered that Bioware expected players to accept the magical 'you're not working for Cerberus anymore... just because' plot device. Then there's the... kid.

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 18 2012, 8:55pm Anchor
Quote:You spend three games, released over a period of five years, and a bare minimum if around 100 hours to recieve and ending that boils down to three choices of an identical, entirely contextless cut scene that doesn't even make sense

Every time you mention the hundreds of hours of choices and years of gameplay the series brought you, only to whine about the very ending, it really only makes your case sound that much worse. The fate of the Reapers may boil down to a handful of options (as they're a pretty big deal to the franchise), but the outcomes are still different. Especially when you factor in that Mass Effect is longer than a 3 minute cutscene, and that the outcome is so much more as a result. The marketing is correct as the choices lead to very different experiences, and the outcome. Of course though, you're going to be too blind with bandwagon-rage to see past the color of an explosion.

Quote:Side note -- A clown face, seriously? Are you trying to troll or start a fight?


It's a mime.

Quote:isn't doing any of us any favors. It doesn't enlighten anyone, it just sounds arrogant.

Yes, and your camp calling people who play other games lobotimized chimps is the antonym of arrogance. Complaining constantly on a forum because you feel absolutely entitled to extra content and the reworked ending of your desire is so humble, so so humble. And you think that, by contrast, your constant complaining is doing anyone any favors, or is actually enlightening anyone? Way to speak of arrogance.

Edited by: Cryrid

Mar 19 2012, 5:01am Anchor

I didn't say people that play other games, you generalized what I said, I said pretty much that the Elderscrolls is a series designed for Lobotimized Chimps, its also clear their QA team is mostly Lobotomized chimps given how terrible the product shipped- and that comparing it to a non-linear title that spans multiple games is not a very good comparison given how radically different the design is. But it seems you got really butthurt over it.. Problem bro? Skyrim was overrated, just as Oblivion before it. Bethesda gets too much praise for how little it actually does, Daggerfall deserved a HELL of a lot more praise and went fairly ignored by the mass due to its terrible QA. (but to be fair that's been a common trait of the entire Elderscrolls games, they're all buggy as shit, its just back then people's standards were higher than they are now). Point is, its not worth even arguing elderscrolls given its not even the same type of game.

If you want to debate the business practices behind them however, you're welcome to do so.

Someone wrote:
And you think that, by contrast, your constant complaining is doing anyone any favors, or is actually enlightening anyone?

Last time I checked the consumers right to complain about the quality of a product was very much a legal obligation. People are complaining because they want to see an improvement. Bioware threw this together last second and it shows, its rushed and could be done better. Some people are not satisfied, they have every right to complain about it. You can't stop them, they're exercising their rights.

Rest assured, I could give two shits about Biowares game, What they do is up to them.. I'm more in the thinking that no matter what Consumers rights have to be uphold. We do not vote with our wallets.. this is a stupid ideology that has flooded the video game culture, our governments gave us rights and protection should we be not satisfied with a product for sale, if the developer wants to keep their profit, they should do what ever is necessary to secure their customers. Given that most people are unable to return the game, their natural instinct is to try and campaign for a fix to the problem. You can complain about complaining all you want but your efforts are futile, they'll keep doing it. I'm trying to save you the trouble of arguing, especially since it appears to be stressing you out a bit.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 19 2012, 5:38am Anchor

To be fair, chaps, most of the rage against ME3 is by people who played both prequels... Like me.

Mass Effect 3 is the product of a lot of hard work by talented designers. However, it's overall quality is inferior to both prequels. Why? Dozens of reasons. Everything from outsourcing to memory limitations of current-gen console hardware. I remember a similar situation twelve years ago - when the acclaimed N64 game Turok 2 was followed up by Turok 3. Turok 3 cut corners to run on the hardware while still achieving the technical innovations like VO and multiple routes through levels. Compromise: pushed back fog, but enemies faded away the moment they hit the floor.

Bethesda and their games are a different kettle of fish. Skyrim was rushed to meet a somewhat cemented release date set by the marketing people. The bugs CAN be fixed in Skyrim. But it would take a frightful amount of patching to fix the animation problems in ME3, for instance.

Oh yes, and need I mention VTMB: Bloodlines? That game turned shitty at the halfway mark. The endings are crap, a bad joke in some cases. But still people hold the game up as a paragon of awesomeness. Partly because it has no competition, yes.

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

Mar 19 2012, 5:44am Anchor
formerlyknownasMrCP wrote:I didn't say people that play other games, you generalized what I said, I said pretty much that the Elderscrolls is a series designed for Lobotimized Chimps,

Thanks for that... I happen to enjoy playing Elder Scrolls, you don't exactly need to result to 'attempting' to insult the playerbase just because you don't happen to agree with the gameplay or like the series, its pretty arrogant.

ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Mar 19 2012, 6:25am Anchor
Cryrid wrote:The fate of the Reapers may boil down to a handful of options (as they're a pretty big deal to the franchise), but the outcomes are still different.

That's part of the point. The outcomes are not different.

Mar 19 2012, 7:43am Anchor
Someone wrote:
Thanks for that... I happen to enjoy playing Elder Scrolls, you
don't exactly need to result to 'attempting' to insult the playerbase
just because you don't happen to agree with the gameplay or like the
series, its pretty arrogant.

Yeah well in all fairness the playerbase hasn't been exactly nice to me either. In the end if you're a diehard TES fan who's played it since Arena rest assured I don't consider you a lobotomized chimp. But if you came into the series with Oblivion, frankly I pity you, for your entire understanding of game design likely comes from that game, and Oblivion's game design was pure ass. Skyrim just continued it on (I still don't understand the need to simplify it even more, I play RPGs for their complexity ffs!).

I made similar criticisms about Mass Effect 2.. fortunately they corrected this in Mass effect 3, the skill system is a hell of a lot more complex and as a result makes the game much much more enjoyable. In the end, seeing any decline in game design shits me off, if the original worked brilliantly, then its usually unwise to change the formula, rather you should just add bits on that enhance it. Mass Effect 3 when compared to Mass Effect 2 did this great.. but the mechanics from 2 weren't all that crash hot (I hated the triggered cover system, the one used in Mass effect 1 was better) (I also hated the new ammo system, Mass Effect 1's heat/cooldown system worked a lot better and was more fun for Pew Pew, ammo just meant they could add gimmicky melee combat in, which in ME2 was pure fail but in ME3 actually works a hell lot better).

I think the butthurt comes from Bioware's story driven focus.. when you end the series like that, people look at it and think its completely lazy and unprepared.. because it is.. they already told us that the ending was rushed due to the leak. They should've just stuck with the original ending and to hell with the spoilers!

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Mar 19 2012, 8:04am Anchor

My only real complaints about ME3s gameplay were the lack of attention to detail (where did all the hacking and stuff go? It all turned into the 'use' key - rendering some of the engineer upgrades useless), and most importantly, the absolutely bizarre decision to bind every actyion to a single button. I kept trying to 'use' objects, only to take cover on a random desk or randomly dive in the opposite direction D:

Keyboards and gamepads have more than one bloody button!

Edit: Found a brilliant quote from Casey Hudson (ME3 Executive Producer):

Quote:This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

There are loads of quotations to this effect around the web. It's very safe to say that this has been a marketed feature of the Mass Effect trilogy as a whole for quite a long time. I think people are perfectly right to complain that the product they bought did not deliver the features it is marketed to have. If you bought upholstery cleaner that's advertised to get red wine stains out of your curtains, but does in fact do nothing to the effect at all, you'd be equally irate and likely to complain. The difference however is that upholstery cleaner doesn't cost in excess of $180.

Edited by: ambershee

Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 19 2012, 9:56am Anchor

Here's some cold hard facts:

Drew Karpyshyn wrote ME1
Drew Karpyshyn & Mac Walters co-wrote ME2
Mac Walters wrote ME3

(Ignoring the random guys and gals who fill in the gaps.)

At the end of the day, all our individual gripes about Mass Effect 3 can be pointed at Mac Walters. Walters is a skilled writer, but he lacks the ability to be subtle, in my humble opinion. His script has that ARE YOU GETTING THE VERY IMPORTANT SUBTEXT? thing going on in most scenes.

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

TheUnabridgedGamer
TheUnabridgedGamer It's been a long time...
Mar 19 2012, 10:54am Anchor
Ambient_Malice wrote:Here's some cold hard facts:

Drew Karpyshyn wrote ME1
Drew Karpyshyn & Mac Walters co-wrote ME2
Mac Walters wrote ME3

(Ignoring the random guys and gals who fill in the gaps.)

At the end of the day, all our individual gripes about Mass Effect 3 can be pointed at Mac Walters. Walters is a skilled writer, but he lacks the ability to be subtle, in my humble opinion. His script has that ARE YOU GETTING THE VERY IMPORTANT SUBTEXT? thing going on in most scenes.


That would explain the tonal difference I felt in the demo and most cutscenes... might also explain why some people are complaining about relationships not being as deep as in other games. Granted, you've known most of these characters for ages so not a crazy thing for them to be a little more to the point.

McSlaughter
McSlaughter Respectable Gentlemen's Organization
Mar 19 2012, 5:31pm Anchor

I was talking to a friend about the direction Mass Effect as a whole has been going, and he remarked on how BioWare intentionally made the endings the way they were (Bad, in my opinion.) just so people would talk about them. They didn't really care enough to make them so good that people would buzz about them, they just made them bad enough so that people would actually buzz about them.

BioWare and the Mass Effect series just went downhill after I read in a GameInformer article about ME2 that BioWare believes it is "innovating" when they cut out the inventory system from the game. I feel like the quote was more or less "When we encounter problems here at BioWare, we don't fix them: We just get rid of them!" I'm sure I'm paraphrasing just a little, but that is seriously what I recall that was what they were saying in that quote.

Edited by: McSlaughter

Mar 19 2012, 6:07pm Anchor

The one button press thing was a problem with ME2 not ME3, ME3 just inherited the problem. However I agree completely Ambershee, its clearly not optimized for PCs and as I said ME1 did it better (probably because they did the PC port seperately, whereas both ME2 and ME3 had rushed ports to PC along side the console releases.. this explains the flaws in the QA too, ME2 had a lot more bugs than ME1 did, IMO EA did the right thing with ME1 (by bringing in an additional porting team and allowing 1 extra year to develop it, but have totally fucked up ever since).

The lack of hacking mini-game was a good thing as ME2 went insanely overboard with it where in it caused huge stopages to the gameplay, the entire game relied too heavily on it as it was your primary source of income. They solved this in ME3 with the wages/payments. I don't think anything was really lost with regards to the mini-game. That said though, some kind of puzzle replacement would have been nice.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 19 2012, 7:09pm Anchor
Quote:That's part of the point. The outcomes are not different.

Even forgetting how everything else adds up and just focusing on the very end scene, if you look past the color of the explosion then you're setting up dramatically different results for future cycles.

Quote:I didn't say people that play other games, you generalized what I said

Unless Skyrim and ME are the same game, then Skyrim is another game. Deal with it.

Quote:its also clear their QA team is mostly Lobotomized chimps given how terrible the product shipped- and that comparing it to a non-linear title that spans multiple games is not a very good comparison given how radically different the design is.

Yes, because a highly praised GOTY with high ratings across the board is poorly shipped. Because Elderscrolls doesn't span multiple games. Because ES is a linear game...Any other lies you want to throw in while you're at it? The compairison remains just as valid, and fits in with the PA example of how reading a 'choose your own adventure' book doesn't make you the author. The choices serve (and has always served throughout these series) as a way to shape your experience. And until the day a game can get so large that you can actually make your Shepard say "I don't want to do anything of this" and instead have him go off to be an intergalactic Space Jam backetball player, then your choices are going to be confined and you're going to play by the author's narritive. This isn't an issue of free will afterall; Sheppard was only written to have so many possible responses, his choices pre-made and their outcomes pre-determined before you ever picked up the controller. You played the game, chose your path, and arrived at it's destination. My heart bleeds for you.

Quote:Last time I checked the consumers right to complain about the quality of a product was very much a legal obligation.

There's a distinguishable difference between the quality of a product (such as a game with poor programming that ultimately renders it unplayable), and crying because you didn't like the way the story ended. I haven't seen any mention of game-killing bugs, nor do I see any 'my mass effect game keeps freezing on the load screen!' threads. What I do see is threads and complaints like this focusing purely on the endings. At this point you might as well be crying over Becca not choosing Jacob. That saddest part isn't even that it's just complaining over the ending (as not everyone is going to like everything), but you're actually demanding the creator's change it for you.

Quote:You can't stop them, they're exercising their rights.

I'm not trying to stop them, I'm just calling them cry babies for the extent of their moaning. As is my own right. Aww, did you think that right only applied to people who agree with you? Should I dig out the mime picture again?

Quote:We do not vote with our wallets..

Of course you vote with your wallets. That's how it works. If you don't like DLC, you don't buy it. If you don't like a business practice, you don't fund it. It's not an essential human right that you need in order to survive. I knew you had a sense of entitlement, but I didn't think it ran this deep.

Quote:especially since it appears to be stressing you out a bit.

Yup. Just shaking in rage, bro. It's soooo stressful on me. It's like, I just hate posting so much, and yet... here I am, you know? Logic, how does it work?

ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Mar 19 2012, 7:51pm Anchor
Cryrid wrote:you're setting up dramatically different results for future cycles.

Presented to you in three lines of text. That's not the important part however. The important part is closure, but you seem to like to miss that point entirely so that you can argue the toss. The point is, the product doesn't do what it is advertised to do. This is what makes people angry. Why don't you understand this? It seems quite obvious to everyone else.

If you buy a TV advertised to support 1080p, and then find out it only supports 720p, surely you'd be ticked off? Why does it being a game make it any different?

Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 19 2012, 7:55pm Anchor

Drew Karpyshyn, the original writer of Mass Effect, hasn't even PLAYED Mass Effect 3. I tweeted him last night, asking his thoughts on Ashley William's somewhat less overtly religious character in ME3. He replied that he hasn't played the game, so can't comment.

My only thought was: I actually got a response. Wow. I am so awesome.

www.i.imgur.com/QR3lS.jpg

*Hopes link works*

This is a chart of earlier version of ending, and how decisions added up, and such... apparently.

www.i.imgur.com/QR3lS.jpg

*Hopes link works*

This is a chart of earlier version of ending, and how decisions added up, and such... apparently.

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 20 2012, 1:40am Anchor

Quote:The point is, the product doesn't do what it is advertised to do. This is what makes people angry. Why don't you understand this? It seems quite obvious to everyone else.

The product did exactly what it was advertised to. There was a beginning, middle and end, and the decisions you made shaped the experience and outcome produced. Its your problem that you had grandiose delusions over what that entailed.

Quote:This is a chart of earlier version of ending, and how decisions added up

That's a fan-fic ending made by a reddit user (bolderdash).

Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 20 2012, 1:47am Anchor

The flow-chart does resemble the script leak I've got in quite a few aspects.

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

Mar 20 2012, 2:57am Anchor
Someone wrote:
Yes, because a highly praised GOTY with high ratings across the board is poorly shipped.

PS3 Version, nuff said, Even IGN said it was unacceptable and yet they still gave the PS3 version a fucking 9.5 and a fucking GOTY award (Payola much). But in general the game was very buggy and unacceptable given the praise they get as a developer.. less buggier games got none of the attention.

Someone wrote:
The compairison remains just as valid, and fits in with the PA example of how reading a 'choose your own adventure' book doesn't make you the author.

Except in ES the options are purely cosmetic, you could argue that's the major reason why Mass Effect 3's endings are so bad because for the most part the decisions you made throughout the game weren't just cosmetic, Characters died, major factions change political struggles, it had a greater impact than just what color shirts people were wearing (Skyrim all they did was make it so depending on who you picked would just determine the voices and shirts the faction was wearing, the ending is the same regardless of the side you picked, whereas Daggerfall it actually mattered and with daggerfall it actually took into account your story progression- which is what Mass Effect at least tried to do until the ending. Hence disappointing.)

I've made similar criticisms of the original Deus Ex (a game I love), Deus Ex abandons the progress and choices you made in the story half way through and then gets you to pick 3 endings. IMO that really sucked- its just lucky the endings weren't purely just cosmetic, they actually wrote multiple outcomes and they're all hugely different from one another.. Design wise though its very weak and in my eyes a major flaw of the game design. That said its still an amazing game for the amount of things it did let you get away with before it linearity them.. Invisible War actually did this a hell of a lot better but most people ignore it for some reason. Human Revolution didn't even try- the game is as linear as it could be, none of your choices matter (with exception of the very ending, which again purely cosmetic and absolutely shithouse ending).

Point is they should be bothering to write just a few more lines in there to differentiate the endings and thus give success or failure their own individual rewards, Mass Effect 3 and even Deus Ex Human Revolution just applied a one size fits all approach to the endings.. IMO there should've been far more butthurt over the Deus Ex 3 ending given that it wasn't even original content, they just copied stock footage- very slack given the budget the game had. The ending is so important as its the thing we leave with and its often the thing that reminds us why we should replay it again. To biowares credit, at least it wasn't stock footage, at least they bothered, Square Enix.. wtf guys I mean really. Truthfully people should be more pissed about those endings compared to Mass Effect :D.

As I said earlier some of the fans are taking it too far.. but Cryrid you're totally ignoring that in certain countries we are actually entitled to certain things, such as refunds if we're not happy, and even to write a formal complaint (in Australia its encouraged).. but past the return date the only thing people can do is offer feedback, and if the company wanted continued business it should be doing what it can to provide satisfaction, else accept the consequence of not having that person's business anymore. There's nothing you can say or do Cryrid to stop people doing that, if they want to get all butthurt and stop supporting bioware, let em.. its not really your place to tell them that they're wrong or that they should just put up with it, that's for the developer to decide and its up to the consumer to give up, walk away and accept that perhaps this is not a developer they should be supporting.. I know I've completely given up on supporting Creative Assembly, QA wise their recent games shouldn't have even passed through QA, Multiplayer wasn't even touched by a tester and it shows. We're at least entitled to a refund, and we're obligated to provide feedback in the hopes that the developer sees it, learns from it and corrects it for future products, if they don't then fine stop supporting them. Its in the best interest of the developer to take in feedback, good or bad.

Someone wrote:
There was a beginning, middle and end, and the decisions you made shaped the experience and outcome produced. Its your problem that you had grandiose delusions over what that entailed.

Very Vague Marketing can do this. In this case the word "Different" ending can be interpreted in too many different ways, when we first think different we think "unique" endings not "minor changes but essentially the same footage". Reminds me of Fallout 3's 300 ending claim, turned out the "300" was just still images with text lol and that there was more like 3 endings that all lead to the exact same conclusion (at least till a DLC came out that people had to pay for). Point is, AAA Developers and their marketing people are often lying bastards, take all their claims with extreme scrutiny. This will stop you from getting so butthurt. I learned this a long time ago..

Frankly I don't even care about Mass Effect 3. I'm more just trying to make you realize Cryrid that the consumer still has rights, you can't pretend like the developer is the pinnacle of honesty because often they're not. Granted, the reactions have been over the top, the ending is just lazy, its not really a major gamebreaker, its just annoying to see it given how easy it can be fixed (games in the past have done it with little problems).

Mar 20 2012, 5:57am Anchor

If you're unsatisfied like most of the real fans, come here and complain:
Social.bioware.com
Vote here:
Social.bioware.com
Join the Retake Movement:
Facebook.com

Hold the line

ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Mar 20 2012, 6:34am Anchor

The flowchart is very much what I would have expected the outcome of ME3 to be.

Edit: instead of this;
User Posted Image

Edited by: ambershee

TheUnabridgedGamer
TheUnabridgedGamer It's been a long time...
Mar 20 2012, 11:16am Anchor

I think that's the best example yet, Ambershee, in how to show someone how bad ME3's ending is. I have got to say though to the one above thing, I actually did really like Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It lacked the follow through and yes was a great deal more linear than most RPGs, but I still enjoyed it immensely and it did still allow for exploration and variation in tactics. Not trying to get us off track, just saying.

And yeah, Cybrid, I'd imagine by this point there's no reason for you to keep arguing -- you're just getting more and more pissed off trying to make someone think what you want to think. Speaking from personal experience, you aren't going to get a lot of pay off for that. At best, you'll make an ass out of yourself. I'm speaking out of concern, not attempting to insult.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Mar 20 2012, 8:33pm Anchor
Quote:because for the most part the decisions you made throughout the game weren't just cosmetic, Characters died, major factions change political struggles, it had a greater impact than just what color shirts people were wearing

See that's part of my point. Those character deaths, faction changes, relationships, etc... that's all the outcome of your choices. People get this notion that it's only the last 3-6 minutes that count, and have stated repeatidly in this thread that the last few minutes somehow render the last 200 hours of choices irrelevant to the story. They fail to see that those 200 hours are the story.

The exception that I was see is if your Shepard died in Mass Effect 2, so your customized version of the story ended then and there, and you had to start out with a new Shepard in ME3 using the default version of the story in order for ME3 to even exist.

And if I may clarify why Skyrim and ElderScrolls in general were brought up as an example. First off, the choices do go beyond cosmetic, and do take an effect on how the quests progress. More importantly, they can completely change the way a game is played. My friends and I all played the same game, but had wildly different experiences with it as a result of the choices we made. Story-wise there were parallels of course (same characters in the same world with the Dovakihn having the same ultimate fate).

Mass Effect was never any different. You can customize your Shepard and make choices along the way to help create a more customized experience, but the parallels are always present and the story is always moving in the same direction. Look at how the choices in the first game ultimately led to so many unique results; the humans either get invited to join the council, the council gets destroyed and the humans join a new one, or the council gets destroyed and they form a human-only council. If I didn't know better, I would almost think that despite whatever choices you may have made, Mass Effect ultimately wanted the humans to be on a council, preparing for a Reaper invasion so that their franchise could continue to play out how they wanted it. And that's the series people are trying to claim is so radically departed from ME3? /s

It makes sense. It would be awfully hard to take something that has 20+ different endings, and pick up from there. By keeping their story constrained and progressing towards the same destination, then the next game only needs one beginning, with some characters swapped around. It's really what makes the next official title even possible, as otherwise there would be so many butterfly-effect alternate realities that the story could only progress through fan fictions with no canonical events being established because there's just so many outcomes. The ME timeline would be so fragmented that it simply wouldn't make it as a franchise without establishing an official version of events and choices. Which goes back to what a series like ElderScrolls does when it releases a new title. Or something set in the Star Wars universe.

Quote:. but Cryrid you're totally ignoring that in certain countries we are actually entitled to certain things, such as refunds if we're not happy, and even to write a formal complaint (in Australia its encouraged)..

I'm not ignoring that people are entitled to certain things like refunds, the problem is that people think they're entitled to tell game developers how to develop their own games. They think they're entitled to receive additional content free of cost, and most amazingly they think they're entitled to get authors to change their stories around just to please them. Kim Jong-un might actually have that ability within North Korea, but that's not the way it works for the world most of us live in. By all means go for your refund if you think you're not satisfied with the product (despite apparently enjoying it well enough to play from start to finish), but dont form petitions to try and demand developers to change their endings. That's an extreme level of entitlement far beyond the borders of basic consumer rights.

Quote:And yeah, Cybrid, I'd imagine by this point there's no reason for you to keep arguing -- you're just getting more and more pissed off trying to make someone think what you want to think.

It never gets old, rediamthegallen, that whenever you can't stand someone disagreeing with you, you try tell them to stop posting. It must be the easier route rather than trying to convince an adult that your spilled milk is worth the tears. It's obvious that you didn't create this thread to discuss the endings or how choices in game design are often constrained for the sake of the story. You have no care for opposing opinions on the issue. Instead you just want others to join the circle jerk along with your sig to comfort your misplaced bandwagon rage. I say this, not as an insult, but out of concern; man up.

Edited by: Cryrid

Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 20 2012, 8:43pm Anchor

It's worth pointing out that people were angry about Mass Effect long before the endings were seen. The rage started when Arrival DLC for Mass Effect 2 removed the RPG elements and replaced them with sappy drama.

When the script was leaked in November 2011, the cat was out of the bag. Cue angry people. So I think accusing everyone of hating exclusively on the ending is a bit misguided. The ending is the part people see an opportunity for change in. They can't realistically demand Bioware redo every single cutscene to fix the animation bugs or completely rewrite Ashley Williams and Kaiden whatshisname to match their ME1 characters. (Yes, I am getting obsessed with learning which moron stuffed the latter.)

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

TheUnabridgedGamer
TheUnabridgedGamer It's been a long time...
Mar 22 2012, 8:30am Anchor

I personally don't care about who Ashley is in ME3, as my femshep is going to shoot her without hesitation (I knew there was a good reason for saving Ashley even just once on Virmire. Now I see what that is...) But I am officially declaring things get back on track to discussing the ending(s if you want to be technical) and what led up to them in the game. If anyone tries to start making this an argument again then I'm going to ignore them. Plain and simple!

Ambient_Malice
Ambient_Malice Ultraconservative Hippie Freak
Mar 22 2012, 7:11pm Anchor
Reqieumthefallen wrote:I personally don't care about who Ashley is in ME3, as my femshep is going to shoot her without hesitation (I knew there was a good reason for saving Ashley even just once on Virmire. Now I see what that is...) But I am officially declaring things get back on track to discussing the ending(s if you want to be technical) and what led up to them in the game. If anyone tries to start making this an argument again then I'm going to ignore them. Plain and simple!

Ashley hater. I'm NEVER SPEAKING TO YOU AGAIN! *Clutches his poorly written collection of love poetry to Ashley Williams*

But in all seriousness, I think the team at Bioware failed to realise that throwing a glowing kid at the end of the game, along with a pointless choice, wasn't going to work. It seemed like a good idea at the time. But it wasn't.

If they were rushed, they should have ended with dying Shepard. The ending feels like a half-finished deleted scene. The kind of stuff modders love to restore.

--

Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
-Peter Hitchens

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