Looking for programmers and 3D animators - Prism: 3D Pokemon MMO Thread

Ok, yes, I know it's been done before and usually failed, but here's a new attempt!

Basically we're looking for development members and just regular members as we'd like to develop this game and our community. Just a few days ago we finally went "public" after about a year of touch and go work. Now we'd like to step it up a gear and get a bit more serious. Specifically, we are looking for programmers and 3D animators. We are using Esenthel engine (so that means C++) and a majority of us use blender. Anyone can contribute but we are also looking for core team developers. In a developer we look for:

• someone who has a relatively flexible work and time schedule (of course we understand people have lives, but someone who can check in maybe once a day would be ideal)
• someone who has previous experience (though quality of work can override this)
• someone mature (you don't have to be old, just don't act like a child)
• fluent english speaker (perhaps it goes without saying, but our team communicates in english so it doesn't have to be perfect english, but please try)
• reliable internet and hardware (probably the most important one. We don't want someone who's harddrive fails, or someone who can't meet deadlines because of their internet)

Of course, all of these aspects are not required but what we would ideally have in every team member. So, if you're interested:
Check out our indiedb page by searching Pokemon Prism or by visiting my profile and then my games.
There you can find more information in our Game Design Document. Everyone is welcome, not just "contributing members" =]

I'd also like to note that myself and everyone currently on the team understand the risks of making a Pokemon MMO (including financial and legal). But we also understand that Nintendo has been rather foggy on this matter and has said before they generally are neutral towards fan games as long as the game doesn't claim affiliation, or sponsorship, doesn't make money, and doesn't use ripped graphics. If you have further insight that can be confirmed, we'd love to know, but please don't flame us for that, thank you.

Further insight: whilst I cannot specifically name articles, there have been Pokemon MMO attempts shut down before.

Nintendo owns the rights to Pokemon - so making a mod based on their franchise is a bad move

Apparently, asking people not to flame, is an invitation

Well after much though, I've been using this thread for reference: www pokecommunity com/showthread.php?t=25132

Others also received a similar response from Nintendo. So while it WASN'T an endorsement it was kinda a "meh" stance. Also, many (if not all, iirc) of the Pokemon MMOs that have been shut down were games using sprites or other resources ripped from the game, or information and assets taken from the official sites. In short, they were using more than the Pokemon IP.

Also, it's not like we haven't already thought of these things. And while we understand your concern, telling us this isn't going to suddenly change our minds about the development. We're only looking for other people who are interested in taking a chance with us to make something a lot of people have been waiting a long time for.

Sorry if the post sounded rude, it wasn't intended to. Understand, we just hear this a lot from people who don't take our project seriously and/or think they are Nintendo's voice.

"Nintendo owns extensive intellectual property rights in all of our products,
including systems, game titles, characters and game audiovisual works." - Nintendo Guy
So you may not use the name "Pokémon", nor may you recreate any characters or pokémons that's already been created by Nintendo.
This would also include the Pokéball, and the list goes on.

No what they are saying is that if you can manage to work around everything that is copyrighted - preferably with the help of a lawyer specialized on intellectual property laws - they wont kick you in the ass.

But seriously, why bother with this? Why do you people have to steal a concept and risk having to shut down your mod development instead of just comming up with your own stuff?

Edited by: Nightshade

indiewhite In short, they were using more than the Pokemon IP.

Pokenet (shut down in April 2010), did not use any ripped content, only names and locations. Many of the individual pokemon are a Nintendo trademark, after all.

They cant do anything if its a non-profit mod, Its like making your own little book about pokemon they cant sue you for that....

Yes they can, because you're still using their property. I suggest you read up on intellectual property law before misguiding people.

There are not many times you can get away with infringing a copyright when you release material (or worse in this case, a competitor product), unless your product is a parody. There are very few times you can get away with infringing a trademark, if at all.

Edit: a moderate article:
Templetons.com

Edited by: ambershee

Like I said, I'm not looking for flame. I'm looking for people who want to do the same thing. If thats not you then, fine.

And the reason you work on a pokemon game rather than something else, is because it is immensely difficult to find people who are all willing to give up a position of power in decision making to allow someone to lead them in ideas and concept. Its much easier to take an idea or concept everyone already knows and develop off that rather than everyone have clashing ideas. Again, I understand the risks, please don't lecture me on that.

indiewhite wrote: Like I said, I'm not looking for flame. I'm looking for people who want to do the same thing. If thats not you then, fine.

And the reason you work on a pokemon game rather than something else, is because it is immensely difficult to find people who are all willing to give up a position of power in decision making to allow someone to lead them in ideas and concept. Its much easier to take an idea or concept everyone already knows and develop off that rather than everyone have clashing ideas. Again, I understand the risks, please don't lecture me on that.

The reason we respond like we do is not because we "like" to flame people. We are telling you that this is a bad street to walk down because of the problems with intellectual property laws and the big corporations. You may "think" that they wont do anything and maybe thats the case with small companies, or when regarding abandonware or something else. But the big companies, they have legal divisons - people working for them to make sure that no one steals from them.

Edited by: Nightshade

Niteshade wrote: The reason we respond like we do is not because we "like" to flame people. We are telling you that this is a bad street to walk down because of the problems with intellectual property laws and the big corporations. You may "think" that they wont do anything and maybe thats the case with small companies, or when regarding abandonware or something else. But the big companies, they have legal divisons - people working for them to make sure that no one steals from them.

I'm not 14 =\

Noone insinuated that you are. You are however talking about your intention to very knowingly break intellectual property law on a website that is concerned very strongly with respecting the rights of developers, which naturally includes intellectual property law.

oh well. I guess there's no use in trying to find people in this thread then.

Nintendo has stated publicly and privately that it does not seek to shut down Pokemon fangames as long as they do not use the sprites from the game, the 3D models, charge money for use, or imply that they are supported by Nintendo.
If you meet the above criteria, yes, you are breaking the law, but Nintendo's stance is that they will not pursue you legally to Cease and Desist your game.
THAT is the legality of the issue. While something may be illegal (like hitchhiking for instance) it is not always inherently wrong and "wrong" is determined by the action of the authority on the matter (which happens to be Nintendo, who does nothing in this matter).
I have sources, emails with Nintendo, and personal experience to back this post.
Please stop taking over a recruitment thread with legality concerns, as those who are willing to break the law do so at their own risk and know the consequences beforehand.

ambershee wrote: Yes they can, because you're still using their property. I suggest you read up on intellectual property law before misguiding people.

There are not many times you can get away with infringing a copyright when you release material (or worse in this case, a competitor product), unless your product is a parody. There are very few times you can get away with infringing a trademark, if at all.

Edit: a moderate article:
Templetons.com

Especially when operating from the USA where the software copyright law is incredibly stiff (unlike in Europe). Besides that, Ambershee is right. You could also work under "fair use", but in this case, "fair use" is what the owner decides. Personally, I wouldn't spend time on developing something which will be shutdown.

Most simple thing to is asking Ninty if they don't mind about your project. Get a written (aka legally valid) response and all is set. If they are mustering up the stance as TheGood described then you should not have a problem getting green light from them as long as you legally declare (and held liable to it) that you don't do anything mentioned above.

lebofly wrote: They cant do anything if its a non-profit mod, Its like making your own little book about pokemon they cant sue you for that....

they can do what most companies do and force lean heavily on anyone hosting the mod to delete the files making it hard to track down

TheGood wrote: Nintendo has stated publicly and privately that it does not seek to shut down Pokemon fangames as long as they do not use the sprites from the game, the 3D models, charge money for use, or imply that they are supported by Nintendo.

Can you post a link to where Nintendo said that? I find that hard to believe.

Edited by: ShinobiNFC

ShinobiNFC wrote: Can you post a link to where Nintendo said that? I find that hard to believe.

www pokecommunity com/showthread.php?t=25132
fill in the blanks with periods.

That post is nearing a decade old. Shall we go back to the example of Pokenet, which despite complying to the outlined terms, still recieved legal action a year ago?

ambershee wrote: That post is nearing a decade old. Shall we go back to the example of Pokenet, which despite complying to the outlined terms, still recieved legal action a year ago?

You can give up now. Your point was made long ago.

TheGood wrote:

ShinobiNFC wrote: Can you post a link to where Nintendo said that? I find that hard to believe.

www pokecommunity com/showthread.php?t=25132
fill in the blanks with periods.

in their letter they mention association. Using Pokemon names (not even assets, just well known names) could be construed as association. I certainly wouldn't want to go forward on any development without further clarification.

Anyways, back on topic, how are you guys handling the networking ?

Edited by: ShinobiNFC

indiewhite wrote:

ambershee wrote: That post is nearing a decade old. Shall we go back to the example of Pokenet, which despite complying to the outlined terms, still recieved legal action a year ago?

You can give up now. Your point was made long ago.

You're probably going to get the exact same responses from everyone everywhere you post, more or less. In any case, enjoy working for 3-4 years before being served with a cease and desist - because that stings.

Edited by: ambershee

Hello everyone
I have a question considering you know much about copyright and that stuff,we have a small team with 7 people in it and we made a game about beyblade.
We only showed a teaser and now we wonder can we release it to public?We used toys pictures and stickers to make them and texture.We dont intend on selling the game.The game is on Unity 3D.We found some organizations that might be owners of beyblade copyright soo we might ask them what can we do but first we want to check some other places cuz we dont want to be shut down(maybe they wont notice us),we dont want all our hard work we did in 2 months and a half we did this game to be waste of time.Game will be for Android phones and we might release a PC version too,cuz we started that first.
And pokemon dude,I understand why they did that copyright thing but it's bullshit that if you make a pikachu by watching theirs that's breaking copyright law....it just sucks.Pokemons are easy to make and interesting too,there is lot of pokemons fans out there,but think of this:Nintendo made all those pokemon games and he will make more cuz people like them.
I am wondering if is it the same if you make a game with their models or anything theirs or just anmated 3d cartoon?
If my beyblade game fails I will go for original game,most secure way and you can do anything...you dont need to lay on references and stuff like that,you just need imagination
Soo people help us in carrying this game out,there isnt lot of beyblade games,but beyblades can be fun just watch this video and prove that I am wrong Youtube.com
Soon we will release trailler where you will see much stuff changed and improved,untill then subscribe/like/comment

My guess is your game will have the same reception as ours. Even though your game looks immensely fun, people will still flame it. However, I do note that you are changing little about the original beyblade gameplay and simply remaking it for PC/Android. THIS will get you in trouble with the owners of the IP.

Each company will differ in its opinion on copyright infringement. Some will allow you to produce fan games as long as there is no profit made. Others will shut you down regardless of your profits. If you plan to sell this game on the android market, you can be sure that you will receive a cease and desist order since you would be making money off someone else's IP. If you don't plan to sell it, then there is a chance your game will get by. However, as I see it, it is a competitor product since it is quite similar to the original creators' games. So your best course of action would be to contact the owners of the copyright and see what their claims are.

BTW, don't thread hijack.

Sorry,I saw it was over for you in this tread and these guys look like they know lot about it.Btw thanks for info,well still searching but we might not sell the game as we planed not to sell it soo we might get by.Well we might not get flamed cuz we showed done game soo my guess is that people will like it and support us in crushing other beyblade games
Btw I dont get what you meant with this :

Someone wrote: I do note that you are changing little about the original beyblade gameplay and simply remaking it for PC/Android. THIS will get you in trouble with the owners of the IP.

I know it might be similar to other beyblade games you saw but this game is not "anime style" like those drawn characters or beasts comming out of beyblades,this game is like realistic beyblade game.Lot of people has beyblade toys and play,this way they can play on their phone and we add them more control than any of those other beyblade games did.As I said realistic soo we use real beyblade reference images to build beyblades,which we find on internet.
Also if someone missjudged Beyblade Spinning Heroes is not the beyblade game I am talking about.I am talking about a Cyberwere team game.We dont have our website cuz we dont know how to make one and we are busy with second game which is secret untill we make it or make a website
Thanks again