Israeli attack on Gaza Flotilla Thread

Some vids:
Glenn Greenwald Destroys MSNBC's Israeli lapdog Apologist <- shows the true policy of MSNBC - to support Israel.
'Israel is a Lunatic State' - Finkelstein on Gaza Flotilla Attack <- Is Israel a lunatic state?

Now, for the IDF side:
Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers

Weapons? PRIMITIVE weapons and defensive equipment?

Knives, slingshots, rocks, smoke bombs, metal rods, improvised sharp metal objects, sticks and clubs, 5KG hammers, firebombs and gas masks.

What are they?
What they have to do with machine guns and sniper rifles possessed by IDF?

If they had real weapons, would be they NUKED by Israel?

You see the video where it shows the Israeli soldiers (armed with non-lethal force only) getting beat to death relentlessly with metal pipes by the "peace activists" on the boat? Its disturbing to say the least.
I'm not saying one side or the blockade itself is right, but could it be neither side is?

AFAIK, it was a raid in international waters anyway. Also, they boarded the ship first - you don't have any rights at all to self-defense when you're a peace activist?

Still, it's disturbing. That's why an INVESTIGATION, an INDEPENDENT one, would be badly needed.

The peace activists got their asses kicked by Israel, which is exactly what they wanted.

it's like this scene from MIB: Evtv1.com

"hey man, show us the guns".
"there are no guns"
"he's serious, he'll shoot you if you don't show us the guns"
"i don't know what you're talking about"
*BLAM*

just replace "show us the guns" with "don't go through the blockade".
even the ussr wasn't stupid enough to risk war over a blockade with cuba. Obviously gaza backers think that because they're "peaceful" (just like russia's missile program in cuba!) others rules don't apply to them.

Maybe they're the ones who sue when they get their fingers chopped off when they stick their hands in the parts of the lawn mower that says "do not put hand here!"

@TheHappyFriar

You still missed the point of the international waters. There's a difference between sticking your fingers inside your own lawn mower, inside the public one, or the private one of somebody else (your worst neighbour?).

And WTF is occupying Palestine? Hamas?

Also, they boarded the ship first - you don't have any rights at all to self-defense when you're a peace activist?

This will just go back to the gun debate where you seemed to think it was ok to have guns to protect yourself from cops knocking on your door because the government is evil and out to get you. Protestors have the right to defend themselves, but defense should be proportional to what they are defending from. Being boarded in international waters may be illegal and an annoyance, but it's not a free pass to pull out knives/clubs/pistols in an effort to beat them to death. If you're firing first and putting Israeli soldiers in a position where they now have to defend their own lives, they're going to fire back.

So no, it doen't matter who owns the lawn mower. If the blades are spinning and you want to bypass any safety measures to stick your hands in it anyway...

Edited by: Cryrid

I agree 100% with you Cryrid, that is why I'm disgusted with the flotilla. Self-defense does not allow you to maim or kill your victims.
This does not look like self defense. Do you continue to bludgeon your attacker until he dies when hes on the ground? I point out that they are "peace activists" because those are some very violent pacifists. They look like they can't wait to take turns beating on the Israeli.

Blockades are an act of war and illegal yes, but it may be better than war. The U.S. blockades too, but as TheHappyFriar said, "even the ussr wasn't stupid enough to risk war over a blockade with cuba." It doesn't matter who owns the lawn mower when your suing the the manufacturer (which is what hes implying) for your own idiocy.

I'll be honest ... I have no fucking clue who's right or wrong in this scenario

From the video, all I see is a bunch of Isreali soldiers getting their ass handed to them by a mob ...

I simply don't understand the events that lead up to this ...

GiffE wrote: ... The U.S. blockades too, but as TheHappyFriar said, "even the ussr wasn't stupid enough to risk war over a blockade with cuba." It doesn't matter who owns the lawn mower when your suing the the manufacturer (which is what hes implying) for your own idiocy.

Off topic but in retrospect the USSR was in the right when they moved their nuclear missles to cuba because the US moved some missles to Turkey and Italy before that event which instagated the USSR to do the same thing to the US (move their missles closer).

Then everyone in the US was going ape shit thinking "OH MY GOD HOW CAN THEY DO THAT!" and somehow managed to get russia to back down (really what happened was we agreed to move our missles out of turkey and italy in secret, but the US made it look like to the american public at the time that we just scared them into standing down)

So the bay of pigs was merely a mirrored action of what the US was doing ... not really russia's fault

Edit: Oh yea, how come no one is talking about the BP oil spill in the gulf ... and their half assed methods of stopping the leak?

Edited by: Assaultman67

Mavi Marmara ship is the one in question.

Also strange that they were attacked by these weapons, yet it is claimed that these ships were carefully inspected?

News.bbc.co.uk
Audrey Bomse, an organisator of the convoy, claims:

0845: Audrey Bomse of the Free Gaza movement, which organised the convoy, tells the BBC:
"I can tell you that there were no firearms - all the boats were carefully inspected by the government before they left the port of departure.
"You can't hide a firearm; I suppose you can hide a knife, but there's no evidence there was shooting, there was live streaming coming from the boats.
"You don't see any fire going past the Israelis, you see them coming out of helicopters and shooting immediately."

Also strange that they were attacked by these weapons, yet it is claimed that these ships were carefully inspected?

I imagine clubs are anything you can find around you, nothing that an inspection can really confiscate. Knives could either be hidden, or mere kitchen utensils (I don't think it said what kind of knives they were using?). Axes are standard safety equipment, even on boats. Two pistols were said to be wrested away from the boarding soldiers as they were being attacked (source , also the link you posted), so it wouldn't matter if they weren't found during the initial inspection, as long as they were used against them during the attack. From the footage shown, Mr Bomse seem to be wrong about the Israelis shooting immediately. It looks more like the kind of mob beating where the soldiers have no choice but to fire a few rounds into the crowd in order to stop the attackers.

Edited by: Cryrid

The Turks initiated the violence. Maybe the Israeli's shouldn't have boarded their ship, but you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. If someone is beating your companions/comrades to death, and you have a gun, you fire.

It's a military blockade... logically, you either turn back, or you fight your way through. The flotilla made the wrong decision.

I know this isn't the most important thing here but...
The IDF dropped in too slow. They shouldn't have suffered any casualties.

Edited by: NGS616

Weapons can be improvised out of almost anything look at prisoners who turn a plastic toothbrush into a stabbing or slashing weapon by sharpening it.

And i guess they roped in slowly to be less aggressive in appearance and avoid any escalation or mistaken intent.

well, you guys saw the video before they tried to board via helicopter right?

They pull up along side the boat with a raft and get pelted with shit like plates and stuff ... someone even tosses a stun grenade into the boat ...

They should of known better if they intended on boarding ...

My take? The Israeli's acted in self defence, as with every other time they've been attacked and responded. The Blockade wouldn't be as bad if the Israelis properly supplied the area with equipment, but when its stopping vital goods from coming in.. its not such a great plan.

In regards to this incident, it was only this boat that problems occurred on. Reality check - any nation's forces wouldn't have just stood there and not fired. I know British soldiers wouldn't have, and I know full well US forces wouldn't. Anyone who thinks that pipes, firebombs and knives aren't viable weapons have obviously never seen the damage that they can do to someone.

Also, there has been question of Turkish government involvement - mainly as they purchased that particular barge, and all of those onboard the flotilla that died, at least according to their families, wanted to be martyrs. Doesn't quite make sense for a martyr to be on a supposed peace flotilla, does it?

Basically, we won't know until theres been a proper enquiry, but these videos pretty much show the IDF acted in accordance with the threat presented.

--

Iron Wolf Studios

I actually in my infinite retardanism thought that the blockade was a blockade of ISRAELI shores, not the Gaza Strip lol, so I was like wtf they can blockade themselves off just leave them the f*ck alone, but when I realized it was the Gaza strip I understood why everyone was pissed off haha, but I think I'm kindof still on the side of the Israelis. Cause the blockade makes sense if the Gaza Strip was being used as an attacking front on israili territory... but idk... in the middle eastern wars... its like nobody's right, everybody's wrong. wtf you crazy middle eastern people you and your holy wars!?!?!?

anything else on this?

Edited by: Bluedrake42

They already said that they would allow supplies, as long as they went to another port first. They said they even welcome it and promote it.

This was a planned assault to get media attention and sympathy for those zealous passengers. didn't work on me, they are violent by creed, and Israel offered many times to cooperate.

As an Israel citizen I saw not once or twice how my relative suffer by war, if its the dumb law that saws every boy and girl are recruited to the army at the age of 18 and are sorted according to their הצג סקריפט אנגלי"specification" and what their good at, or some kind of sabotage incident.
And in the news, no matter what happen to who and where, I see a bunch of people just standing there, somewhere, saying israel sucks ass\are a bunch of faggots and its more then just insulting me. Anyways... I think it was a stupid move to send a flotilla filled with weaponary and stuff like that.
Although Im sure its hard being in the Gaza strip with the siege and all that, but if they really wanted to help, the government said it will allow any non-violence stuff, so i just dont get the point in simply hurting people with no good reason nor with good reason what so ever...

The more I read about this incident the more I think the Israelis were in the right and this was more of an attempt to make villans out of them. There was no reason for them to run the blockade if they could have gone through a port with their medical supplies, hence they were probably looking for attention all along. (It also explains why this incident was well documented in the first place from the perspective of the boat running the blockade.)

Read the description for the video:

Youtube.com

"During a search aboard the maritime vessel Mavi Marmara, IDF forces uncovered a cache of weapons including many knives, slingshots, rocks, smoke bombs, metal rods, improvised sharp metal objects, sticks and clubs, 5KG hammers, firebombs and gas masks in case IDF forces fired riot dispersal means at the activists as they violently attacked the soldiers.

These weapons were used against Israeli Navy personnel as they attempted to board the ship. 7 soldiers were injured during the incident, which included activists taking two pistols from the soldiers and firing at them."

Sure, they aren't anywhere near as effective as rifles or bombs, but they can still be used as weapons. The, "Peace," activists tried to kill the Israelis and if I remember correctly I believe they threw one overboard. If the Israelis didn't kill the activists on board, the Israelis would have been killed. I think that's more than enough reason to open fire on them like they did - it's either you or them. Plus, 2 of the activists took handguns from the boarders and opened fire.

The flotilla was never delivering medical aid to the Gazans. It was delivering weapons. It doesn't matter if they are slingshots or nuclear weapons. They are still intended to kill someone. That's a good enough excuse for me.

Edited by: Handgun_Hero

You do not go somewhere and piss in the face of another country's soldiers, the flotilla was pushing it's luck as it is. I am sure tensions were high on both sides and people possibly, as people do, took it too far resulting in an escalation and the rest of us buy into it picking one of the two sides that cries victims.

I remember my trip to Guatemala last summer, there were armed guards there, some with aks, others with some smg I don't know what it was. What I did know is if they didn't want me going somewhere, even if it was passing by with nothing in my hands, I wasn't going to go near them.

You have a country that has an IFFY political image, embattled, with soldiers who are stuck out on a hot assed ship for hours everyday patrolling and you are going to try and push on past them. Look, I don't care if you are a fishing boat, don't even so much as wave, yes sir, no sir, and move along. Instead the "peace loving" people know that if they are assaulted it will vilify the soldiers . I do not for one second believe the soldiers were unprovoked and I lean more towards being against what Israel was/is doing.

Edited by: Smoth

this is a perfect example of how both apparent sides of this fail misrebly

the IDF shouldn't be raiding ships, but those people, bringing "aid" should not be attacking soldiers.

Just as I'm pretty sure most of you would do, if I was a soldier, and someone started hitting me with a hammer, I would gun them down and not think twice. Why? Because they were an imminent threat, if you attack a soldier, you put yourself out there as a militant enemy of that state, and thus, it would be appropriate for that state's military to injure/maim/disable/capture/kill you.

And at that, if I was bringing aid, I would listen to any soldiers, and let them search my ship for contraband (noting that I would avoid bringing any, expecting my ship to be searched) so I may get through and bring the aid. If I can't get through, and the soldiers attack me or the people with me (or refuse us passage for that matter), then not fighting back is a great way to show the world how bad the IDF would be if they would do that, AND to gather support to show us as a nonviolent group promoting peace (people tend to like peace, in my experience at least).

I believe what Israel is doing to the people of Palestine is wrong, but I feel the resistance against Israel is just as bad, if not worse.

Edited by: Mavis130