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IPv6 (Forums : Cosmos : IPv6) Locked
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jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 23 2004 Anchor

Since most Cosmos threads are really deep philosophical stuff, here's some lighter (but sadly far more technical) relief.

IPv6. You've probably heard of it.

For those of you that haven't, it's an upgrade from IPv4 (the thing that gives you IP addresses and defines how computers communicate over the internet) which is generally a Good Thing™. Thousands of IP addresses per square metre of the Earth's surface (including seas).

Are you for it? Against it? Don't see the point? Already implemented it?

Microsoft.com has some excellent resources if you want to do some background reading.

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Personally, our entire home network is IPv6 (At the moment my link-local IP is fe80::20c:6eff:febc:38d3) and much better off for it. Faster, smoother, easier to look after (DHCP is now near-redundant!)

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chis
chis Old man.
Sep 23 2004 Anchor

Ive heard of IPv6..I dont understand it all.. would be nice if I could.. but meh..

I woulden't know any better

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Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 23 2004 Anchor

it's not bad... but look at this:

IPv4: 4 digits with 0-255 value for each digit. something like 192.168.1.1 is easy to remeber

IPv6: 8 digits with 0-65525 value for each digit (hex 0-ffff). this gives major headache to remeber an ip adress there.

but besides this IPv6 comes with some more services implemented directly into the protocol layer like security stuff and such. i'm for it for the time beeing unless they make it more crappy as it's planed so far (ok... planed is the wrong word...)

Sep 23 2004 Anchor

We need it. we won't like it though. That makes it harder to remember your IP or to tell someone over the phone.

Personally, I'm more happy about the Internets birthday.

PsychoBrat
PsychoBrat Bratticus Psychosis
Sep 23 2004 Anchor

Firstly, I'd like to state that I am 100% for IPv6; its a long overdue upgrade, that still isn't being pushed hard enough.

Although my home network doesn't throw stuff around using IPv6, all OS installations on any PCs owned personally by me fully support it; I'm doing my bit :P

Dragonlord wrote: it's not bad... but look at this:

IPv4: 4 digits with 0-255 value for each digit. something like 192.168.1.1 is easy to remeber

IPv6: 8 digits with 0-65525 value for each digit (hex 0-ffff). this gives major headache to remeber an ip adress there.

but besides this IPv6 comes with some more services implemented directly into the protocol layer like security stuff and such. i'm for it for the time beeing unless they make it more crappy as it's planed so far (ok... planed is the wrong word...)


I admit that it can be frustrating in this regard. However, let me propose two solutions:

For more local addresses, it will only be the last block or couple of blocks that will change between machines, so you don't actually have to remember too much in these cases.

DNS! Get names; even with IPv4 it's too frustrating for me to remember lots of IPs, which is why naming everything is the best solution. head.extremelan.net == my gateway :)

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Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 24 2004 Anchor

the problem with dns is that hijacking is done this sux major balls. i know a lot of urls where people just go out, register them in masses to make money. how often i see a name that you can't use because some ass reigstered it and if you look at the page it's emptiness, obviously only registered to cash in.

also for a local network nobody needs more than IPv4. it's ok for the open network but even there subnetting (with IP or names) helps a lot.

i'm more interested in the security and inclusion abilities of IPv6 than enlargement of IPs... because in fact we do here once again what humans are best in: trying to fight a problem by bloating up things instead of solving them.

jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 24 2004 Anchor

Ipv6 does away with NATs though, IE P2P works properly. In addition, you do NOT NEED TO REMEMBER ANY IPs. Everything will be done via DNS since IPv6 IPs expire after a day or two, no matter what the machine is.

Security in it is nice, as is the new packet format. Increasing the IP space is so much nicer because then we don't have to mess around with the horrible nasty NATs.

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Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 24 2004 Anchor

NATs are nice for people not versatile with pc stuff. using NAT you can easily secure your local system. no matter if IPv6 or IPv4 you usually get only 1 IP from your ISP and he's not fond of giving you more. having only one IP NAT is mostly the only solution. i doubt ISPs will be willing to give you a subnet instead of a single IP (even if the subnet would be enough having 8 hosts or less.

Epi7aph
Epi7aph I listen to albums. (Formally StormÇrøw)
Sep 24 2004 Anchor

justmaking it harder to remember :/

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Sep 25 2004 Anchor

Well the biggest reson why this new IP system is interduse is becuse with the new system you can not only give every computer a IP but every Electroinc device a IP! In the old IP system ther was only 4 294 967 296 indevduel number if i rember it right. That dose not even cover all the worlds computers. In the Future ther even you toster and coffie make will have a IP so you can turn them off from work. What fun the scrip kiddies will have once they realise this. :D

Edited by (in order): Yokto, Yokto

Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

especially since MAC addresses are not touched and already todays with IPv4 there is the possibility or MAC-Clashes... imagine what happens if you have every toaster with a MAC-Address out there clashing with a PC MAC... pulling up IPv6 is nice but without paying attention to the MAC addresses you will not get far.

jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

IPs will not be hard to remember - YOU DON'T NEED TO!

And under IPv6 you will not get one IP from your ISP, your ISP doesn't hand them out. Your machines just aquire them and there's enough space to address anything you're likely to own.

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leilei
leilei The person who doesn't like anything
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

"Hey guys, let's meet up at a tfc game! the ip is 50202.412.6962.50011 !!! SEE YOU THERE!"

Soon enough, IPs will be like long serial numbers.

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Epi7aph
Epi7aph I listen to albums. (Formally StormÇrøw)
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

Lol, a Toaster with a IP, "Oh no, my Toaster has been hacked, it burns all my bread" :p

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Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

:lol: ... more like...

4am at micro$ HQ...

"Damn!! we got hacked by a toaster!"

jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

you're obviously not listening to me. You won't give out IP addresses for things because YOUR IP ADDRESSES WILL EXPIRE AND CHANGE THEMSELVES EVERY DAY OR SO.

Instead it has a rather funky DNS thing so you would only give out DNS addresses.

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Sep 25 2004 Anchor

Deffo a good thing. I remember reading about the internet 2 being developed by Intel - lotsa good things coming over the next few decades.

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Why wont it save me?

Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 25 2004 Anchor

jacksonj04 wrote: you're obviously not listening to me. You won't give out IP addresses for things because YOUR IP ADDRESSES WILL EXPIRE AND CHANGE THEMSELVES EVERY DAY OR SO.

Instead it has a rather funky DNS thing so you would only give out DNS addresses.


does it matter if your ip is fixed and somebody hacks your ip or if your dnsname is fixed and somebody hacks your dns?

you are reachable by a variable ip... yes... but in that scenario dnsnames are the same as static ips... and an ip becomes what mac addresses are... with other words: all stays the same in terms of hacking and security. that's why ipv6 has better security means because moving on to dhcp all the way doesn't solve the basic problem.

jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 26 2004 Anchor

There is no such thing as DHCP any more, the protocol itself deals with aquiring new IP addresses once the old one has expired based on querying some routers to see if the IP is wants is available. If not, it tries another one.

So overall it's nice and swish and harder to crack because unless you want to run a service you have no need to broadcast your domain name. Combined with the inherent new security and features, IPv6 is better for everyone because it is inherently more secure and easier to configure.

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Sep 26 2004 Anchor

So when, realistically, cant we expect it to go live?

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Why wont it save me?

jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 26 2004 Anchor

IPv6 is already live. In fact, if you run Windows XP I actively encourage you to install the IPv6 Protocol (see Microsoft.com for the info).

I expect a mass take-up in two to three years when IPv4 finally begins to fall over. If possible, encourage friends to switch or plague your business/school/college/university to move their intranet to IPv6 (if not done so already).

Short answer: Begins in about 2 years, should be over in 5 years. The transition technologies are all in place through, and IPv6 is backwards compatible, so there won't need to be a single 'switch over' date.

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Sep 26 2004 Anchor

Im not taking any risks installing this?

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Why wont it save me?

jacksonj04
jacksonj04 Over 9000
Sep 26 2004 Anchor

risks such as?

Edited by: jacksonj04

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Dragonlord
Dragonlord Linux-Dragon of quick wit and sharp tongue
Sep 26 2004 Anchor

if you use windows you already take a risk so that doesn't really matter... nah... i think this should not pose any more risk than installing any other upgrades.

PsychoBrat
PsychoBrat Bratticus Psychosis
Oct 5 2004 Anchor

azz0r wrote: Im not taking any risks installing this?


If you've got the IPV6 stuff on your box (assuming you're running xp) you can just run "ipv6 install" to install it and get it going; it's that easy.

If you've having problems, or it invokes irrational fear in your heart, you can send it into the fiery abyss by running "ipv6 uninstall".

The changeover to IPV6 might be quicker than expected, as companies like Cisco are pushing for widespread compatibility and providing free updates to their older routers etc.

The future looks delicious! :)

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