I want to share this... Thread

...because alot of talented musicians offer their skills for almost free, or devs expect musicians to compose for free.
Please don't do!

Theguardian.com

Great read, thanks for sharing this!

Edited by: MattManCollins

Thanks for sharing this neoninsect. Although it is a very depressing read. I personally think this should be posted on one of the main developer centric boards so they take note of it and understand the current state of affairs. I'm sure they will have a valid opinion that needs to be voiced. Is this possible?The sad truth is because of a lack of a collective business sense from modern composers, we have confounded the issue of abysmal pay/deals. Although I am not experienced enough to know for certain, my understanding of music for games is that work for hire was the norm with at least a living wage, then profit share becomes more prevalent (although understandable for little/no budget indies) and now we see far too much work for "free". Soon we might be paying to put our music in the media of tomorrow! I must admit I'm still trying to work out if the dream is viable. If I look just at the numbers, perhaps not....

Yes, us 3D artists get told the same thing. However, lots of commercial projects require you to have worked on at least 2-3 prior commercial projects. And if you want to get onto these and aren't in a situation that allows you to travel after every shitty job you're offered, you'll do it for free. Sign away your rights and work for nothing, just for the hope of getting work in the next studio you want to apply to.

I think the whole Human Resources departments in big studios need to be thought over. Often people with little or no knowledge of the artistic sit there, judging applicants on the number of games they worked on and how successful they were; also, of course, what $ they demand. I have seen the trend in musicians a lot, but music today is widely available (soundcloud, etc.) and there are tons of composers. IF they hope to sell anything at one point, they will have worked for free for years before that. It's blue-eyed and foolish of the Guardian article to insist on "should be". Reality doesn't go away, just because you stop believing in it...

Edited by: SinKing

I agree with all of this. Not to offend any on the boards here, but it's true that the fact some composers offer free work is a huge detriment to the other composers actually trying to make a living from writing music.

Not only that, but it hugely devalues the entire process. Almost as if the game developers are merely doing composers a favor for hiring them. I wish there was a very tactful and respectful way to discourage up and coming composers from even considering working for free.

Edited by: NickTorretta

The first thread on this forum states any looking for work or jobs should not be posted here. How bout people start talking less about themselves and their music(for free or not) and start talking about the concepts of composition, sound design, and game audio? Or how about we post some cool links to interviews with musicians/composers or game audio designers? Almost every post I see here is about composers wanting to get their music in games(guilty). I'll start off, if you haven't heard the game audio podcast, you should check it out. Great, knowledgeable guys with a lot of interesting topics covered, and a ton of podcast for free!

I'm glad you guys took note of the article and shared your opinions.
@SweetNiche - Thanx for the link, I will listen to it, if the time allows it.

Whoever trys to make a living out of his talent! Never give up! There are alot of people willing to pay for the work they get! It's hard to find them in these times, while people expect free work for portfolio or something, but they exist. This is also an issue for many developers, programmers and artists as well.
For us musicians - that's why I posted it here - we must stop to offer our skills for free. Even those who have a fulltime job and do this as a hobby.

Sorry, I hope I didn't come off as being to stern, I'd just like to hear more people getting into other aspects of indie game audio on here besides composition. Here is a really great rule of thumb that can be applied to any kind of freelance work:

If you want it fast, it won't be cheap.
If you want it cheap, it won't be fast.
If you want it cheap and fast, you want too much.

Hehe, no worries. Money is always a heavy topic in these kind of jobs, so it is absolutely legit to talk about it as serious as possible.
Your rule is basicly one of my aspects of pricemaking. If I have enough time to work on more stuff at the same time, I can go cheaper.

Really good thread, man! I started off as the "work for free", or more precisely, "accept a job, despite not being paid for it" noob. I am also guilty of marketing myself for far less than what I'm worth. A fault that I am quickly reprimanding and fixing (though pricing yourself is a topic all on its own).

I do want to say one thing though -

I, personally, like to take on projects for free if the developer is unable to provide funds. Not a huge handful, just one here or there if time permits, and if their project is intriguing enough. It is simply the idea of working/growing with a development team without the cloud of money hanging over our heads.

Now, these projects in particular, I have sought out on my own. Offering to compose, realizing they can't pay me, and deciding to help. I don't go waiving my service prices. I like to think that working for nothing but the experience is, in a way, humbling. Maybe that's just me.

Then again, I work as a teacher, not as a composer, so I'm pretty sure my view on that would change were the situation different. Right now, though, I enjoy working on projects that make money, and projects that don't. It's as if I'm making sure my head is in the right place.

I'f I'm willing to put my heart into a soundtrack I'm NOT being paid for, I haven't lost heart.

Edited by: M4uesviecr

There is nothing wrong with working for free, as long as you can afford it to work for free. There is nothing wrong to offer your service for free on a project that you feel like it is worth to help out.
What more I feel that is wrong, is something like those threads here, offering a position to score for example, without wanting to pay the composer. They want highquality, they want the best they can get and they don't want to pay for it. What more I feel it is wrong, that we have composers, that take those jobs. And this is what legitimate it.

*sorry for bad english...it's late for me and I can't really concentrate^^

I have a day job and don't rely on my composing work to pay rent, and I STILL won't work for free because it not only de-values the industry, but it de-values my integrity as an artist. If you don't think you're worth paying money for, why would any of your clients?

Unless you're working pro-bono on a huge project (somehow unable to produce an audio budget) that's likely to draw a lot of attention to your work, I don't see much value in offering your services for free. I mean fine, it's practice, but clients are going to begin expecting insufferably cheap prices from qualified and talented composers that deserve better.

Just my two cents.