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Game Designer Looking For Indie Development Team (Forums : Recruiting & Resumes : Game Designer Looking For Indie Development Team) Locked
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Sep 4 2013, 3:33am Anchor
Quote: I can compose music and I can draw up level layouts

 Well, it's not hopeless but you should market your composing and level planning skills rather than your ideas. Or whatever you have proof of because people will be asking for proof.

Quote: Other then that, I usually find better luck telling people what I can vision in my head and having them draw it.


So you do oral explanation only and let someone else fill the gaps and produce the actual design. See, that is why you are considered an idea guy and nobody wants you. That won't change until you put things on paper.

Doesn't matter what you say you have until you prove it. Don't get this wrong, you don't need to show it to me, you need to show it to whoever you try to work with. People often post their work in order to get contacted by anyone in the first place and considering the topic you should do the same.

Sep 6 2013, 1:54am Anchor

Maybe I should advertise those qualities.  But, the idea of game development at an indie level is still very much like how it was back in the '80s.  Either you're making your own game, or you're going no where.  And, just because you're making your own game doesn't mean it's good because you got the wrong ideas doing the wrong things.  At an indie level, much like the '80s developers are ignorant and arrogant and the guys with the ideas have no room to shine because of the ignorance that plays a factor.  To remind you, in the '80s it was all about one-man developers and it wasn't hard to get into.  Present day with indies, it's still all about one-man developers and it isn't hard to get into indies.  While, Your points will continue to remain valid and I do have to prove something.  But, it's the arrogance that lead to the downfall of gaming until Nintendo came along and it's the same arrogance that will lead to the downfall of the indie market unless something comes along.

Edited by: Anaconda_Vice

Sep 6 2013, 2:29am Anchor

>barely addresses anything that has been discussed so far
>tries to lecture people older and more experienced than him of how things were like before he was born
>continues to ramble on how not hiring everyone who walks in your office and says they are master game designer without any proof is arrogance

Sep 6 2013, 8:41am Anchor

i...                                             ...i got lightheaded reading this...

shadowofamn
shadowofamn 3D Artist
Sep 6 2013, 2:55pm Anchor

Hey Anaconda_Vice, good luck on your journey of game developing. With your attitude, skills level, and communication skills, I doubt you will go far unless you change. Until you become a big shot, don't talk like one. If you do become one then come back and quote me I will apologize to you personally. Have fun in the real world.

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Sep 6 2013, 5:53pm Anchor
shadowflar3 wrote:>barely addresses anything that has been discussed so far
>tries to lecture people older and more experienced than him of how things were like before he was born
>continues to ramble on how not hiring everyone who walks in your office and says they are master game designer without any proof is arrogance

On your third point, I'm only interested in showing proof to people who are interested.  I don't like to waste time for nothing.  Also, if you think what I'm discussing if off topic of what's been discussed.  Then you don't know what I'm discussing, because that's what I've been telling you from the beginning.  To sum it up, if you don't know what I'm discussing you were never apart of the discussion to begin with.

Edited by: Anaconda_Vice

ENP
ENP
Sep 6 2013, 6:20pm Anchor

You seem like a total asshole

You should stop commenting here and focus more on trying to become this "designer" you claim to be or aspire to, take some time to learn more about what your getting yourself into

Edited by: ENP

Sep 6 2013, 6:25pm Anchor

Yeah Anaconda I tried the same approach to getting a team last year. I was pretty naive really. But I got involved in other projects, learned quite a few more things, like how to program in Unity3D + UDK as well as how to do 2D texturing and generate normal, diffuse and height maps with full displacement tessellation implementation in-engine. Got pretty far into some AI programming, learned a crap ton about proper game narrative which was surprisingly different to what I had expected. Learning how to use narrative properly in games was a big shift from what I used to do (conventional novel and screenplay writing). Everything is starting to really work out now though. Going to kick it into high-gear end of the year. Have fun playing around with engine tech and helping out with a few odd jobs on various Indie projects (hell even mods will do!). I know I did (and still do!). I understand the appeal of wanting a whole team to jump on-board because you think your idea is something truly incredible. Like I said, I went down that path too. I got shut down pretty hard too, but it actually worked out for the better and it made me a better developer because of it (although, don't get me wrong, I am still a bottom-of-the-log kind of developer right now). I also feel like an ass now for having been so stubborn at the time, but I realised my error. There really is no need to get so angry and attack people even though you feel a little let down right now. Just take it all with a pinch of salt and keep going. Whatever you decide and whatever happens man, best of luck to you!

Edited by: PixelatedChaos

Sep 6 2013, 6:37pm Anchor
Anaconda_Vice wrote:I'm only interested in showing proof to people who are interested.  I don't like to waste time for nothing.

You haven't shown anything to make someone interested.  Even if you had, there's this:

sloperama wrote:Pretend for a moment that you have a great idea for a novel, not a game. How would you go about getting it written and published? Would you go to a bulletin board and advertise looking for an author to write it for you? No, you would have to get off your butt and write it yourself. I have heard that a friend of Frank Herbert (author of Dune) asked Herbert to author the friend's idea and split the profits 50/50. Herbert refused, even though the guy was a good friend -- Herbert's reply was basically that ideas are easy; the writing is the hard part. Think about it for a minute -- would YOU want to have a friend come up to you, tell you a few sentences, then have you spend months hunched over a keyboard turning his few sentences into the Great American Novel? I doubt it. If you did spend months writing that book, would you want to give half of the money to that guy? I don't think so.

Now pretend for a moment that you have a great idea for a movie, not a game. How would you go about getting it made into a movie? You would have to begin by becoming a movie industry professional, get several movies under your belt, become a producer or studio executive, and off you go! That's the DIFTI route ("Do It From The Inside"). There's also the DIY (Do It Yourself) route: spend a lot of money (tens of thousands at the cheapest), write and direct it yourself, with the help of actors and technicians you hire. The end result may never get into theaters everywhere but could well prove your worth to a real studio. Either way, (DIY or DIFTI) by the time you're done, you're in the movie biz. And you earned it by hard work, not by waving your arms for a few minutes in front of a cigar smoker who then throws wads of cash at you -- it don't work that way.


Source:
Sloperama.com

To make a long story short, the ONLY way someone like you is going to get a good team to work on their game design is if you pay guaranteed money (royalties DO NOT count).

Edited by: Squared55

Sep 6 2013, 7:03pm Anchor
Squared55 wrote:
Anaconda_Vice wrote:I'm only interested in showing proof to people who are interested.  I don't like to waste time for nothing.

You haven't shown anything to make someone interested.  Even if you had, there's this:

sloperama wrote:Pretend for a moment that you have a great idea for a novel, not a game. How would you go about getting it written and published? Would you go to a bulletin board and advertise looking for an author to write it for you? No, you would have to get off your butt and write it yourself. I have heard that a friend of Frank Herbert (author of Dune) asked Herbert to author the friend's idea and split the profits 50/50. Herbert refused, even though the guy was a good friend -- Herbert's reply was basically that ideas are easy; the writing is the hard part. Think about it for a minute -- would YOU want to have a friend come up to you, tell you a few sentences, then have you spend months hunched over a keyboard turning his few sentences into the Great American Novel? I doubt it. If you did spend months writing that book, would you want to give half of the money to that guy? I don't think so.

Now pretend for a moment that you have a great idea for a movie, not a game. How would you go about getting it made into a movie? You would have to begin by becoming a movie industry professional, get several movies under your belt, become a producer or studio executive, and off you go! That's the DIFTI route ("Do It From The Inside"). There's also the DIY (Do It Yourself) route: spend a lot of money (tens of thousands at the cheapest), write and direct it yourself, with the help of actors and technicians you hire. The end result may never get into theaters everywhere but could well prove your worth to a real studio. Either way, (DIY or DIFTI) by the time you're done, you're in the movie biz. And you earned it by hard work, not by waving your arms for a few minutes in front of a cigar smoker who then throws wads of cash at you -- it don't work that way.


Source:
Sloperama.com

To make a long story short, the ONLY way someone like you is going to get a good team to work on their game design is if you pay guaranteed money (royalties DO NOT count).


I know, money really does mess with the senses these days.  It's no longer about making a good game anymore, it's all about how many zeroes are on a pay-check for most people.

SinKing
SinKing bumps me thread
Sep 6 2013, 7:27pm Anchor

Dude, get a grip on reality. It is not all about money, in fact I think the people who comment on these forums are thinking less about money than anywhere else. You completely miss Squared55's point. You either wow people with your skills and a unique idea and build a fellowship rather than "just" a team. Or you make it your goal to produce your totally unqiue and well documented idea and work (yourself, anywhere) to pay others to build your dream. They do their part, they get payed, they leave.

These are the options you have.

--

User Posted Image

Sep 6 2013, 7:28pm Anchor
SinKing wrote:Dude, get a grip on reality. It is not all about money, in fact I think the people who comment on these forums are thinking less about money than anywhere else. You completely miss Squared55's point. You either wow people with your skills and a unique idea and build a fellowship rather than "just" a team. Or you make it your goal to produce your totally unqiue and well documented idea and work (yourself, anywhere) to pay others to build your dream. They do their part, they get payed, they leave.

These are the options you have.


I did kind of miss the first part, that I admit.  But, I did understand the second part.  For the people that do want paid for their work, they'll have to at least put a small demo together and then let crowd funding take care of the rest.

Edited by: Anaconda_Vice

casf01
casf01 Rigger / tech artist
Sep 6 2013, 10:56pm Anchor

Now inverse this last concept and apply it to you.
Get it?

Put a small demo tpgether, if you can't then learn how to just like squared did. This is the best advice I can give you. No body will ever ask you how good you are in this industry you have to show ppl how good you are.

Word, just like ypur resume aint worth shit for a junior the only things that count is your personnal demo and your potential ( not being a jerk with a total lack of social skill also helps :) )

Sep 6 2013, 11:03pm Anchor

I don't think you do understand why people want to get paid, though.

It's not because they're greedy, or because they think they're too good for you. It's that they have something to lose - Their valuable time and experience. Projects fall apart very easily, and it has nothing to do with whether or not the idea was any good. The more inexperienced the team, the more likely it's going to fail, because you don't yet know all the pitfalls of development that are waiting to swallow your project whole.

Putting together a game is hard, it's not like you can just whiteboard a few features and make it happen. It takes many more skills than just programming 101, art 101, and some cool concept for the player to mess around with to make a good game. (And if you disagree, take up programming and learn to do it yourself, that should save you a lot of hassle in trying to recruit a capable programmer.)

So why money? Partly to show that the designer has some skin in the game, that you're just as serious as you want them to be. That you're not getting a free ride off their work with the sole responsibility of vetoing their efforts. Programming is work. Creating assets is work. Coming up with ideas and telling people what to do is fun, not work, you should be paying somebody for that opportunity!

The other reason people want to be paid is to make sure they're going to still have something to show for if/when the project goes down in flames. A "portfolio opportunity" doesn't help someone who already has a respectable portfolio. (And they're the ones you need if you want to get something done, right? Or were you going to rely solely on untested, inexperienced talent?)

If you get (bored/a job/a spouse/hit by a car) and no longer contribute, it's your workers who are out the time spent using a marketable skill towards a dead end, while you just simply decided to not play My Little Indie Game anymore.

Anaconda_Vice wrote:For the people that do want paid for their work, they'll have to at least put a small demo together and then let crowd funding take care of the rest.

Can I make you the same offer? Will you join my project, put together a small demo, and let crowd funding take care of the rest? Or does that sound slightly insulting when you're on the other side of it?

In lieu of money, do as everyone else has suggested: Earn that good will and experience through other projects. Or learn the skills needed to create your own idea, and start working towards it. The internet is full of programming and art tutorials that don't cost a dime. If your idea is that good, and you're as dynamic as you say, you have everything you need to prove to the world that you have something worth contributing to.

Sep 7 2013, 12:38am Anchor
Anaconda_Vice wrote:
I know, money really does mess with the senses these days.  It's no longer about making a good game anymore, it's all about how many zeroes are on a pay-check for most people.

It's no longer about making a good movie anymore, it's all about how many zeroes are on a pay-check for most cameramen.

Squared55 wrote:
To make a long story short, the ONLY way someone like you is going to get a good team to work on their game design is if you pay guaranteed money (royalties DO NOT count).

The point isn't that they're greedy, the point is that they don't need your ideas to make a game.  Especially when working on someone else's idea is less fun.  They need an incentive.  Either you  provide a skill/time they do not have, or you give money.

You seem to have nothing but ideas, which we have no shortage of.  So the only thing you have to compensate people and show your commitment is money.

Someone wrote:For the people that do want paid for their work, they'll have to at least put a small demo together and then let crowd funding take care of the rest.

People can't get multiple conflicting projects funded, and make a personalized demo for every game designer with the promise of maybe, possibly getting hired and a cut of the money.  In the real world, do most people apply for just one job, and then sit down for a month to see how that works out?  Actually, no it's worse than that.  The equivalent would be working at a company, for free, with the promise of maybe getting a one-time payment if the public likes what you managed to whip up in a few months.

Edited by: Squared55

Sep 9 2013, 3:12am Anchor

Better than sitting around doing nothing with your thumb up your a**.

Sep 9 2013, 3:50am Anchor

Beats sticking your thumbs up other people's asses for the past four days. Thanks for.... contributing?

casf01
casf01 Rigger / tech artist
Sep 9 2013, 5:20am Anchor
Anaconda_Vice wrote:Better than sitting around doing nothing with your thumb up your a**.

Dude.... Come on... Can we close this thread before it gets too far ?

Sep 9 2013, 6:24am Anchor

My team is just do planning together, and make decisions as a team in every stuff for our game like story, gameplay, etc - because that's the best for a small team.

An "idea" guy want to join the team but he just simply can't do as much as we can. We make all the content, code, animations, gameplay for the game and he want to write ad signs, notes and skill tooltips for a good % of the income. Who will accept guys like these for any kind of game? At least learn photoshop or the engine itself to be useful, no one wants a pencil acrobat in a 3-4ppl team.

Edited by: Ashkandi

Sep 9 2013, 4:57pm Anchor

You really gotta start reading the entire comment, rather than just the last paragraph.

Anaconda_Vice wrote:Better than sitting around doing nothing with your thumb up your a**.

Because they're totally not gonna work on their own ideas instead of doing nothing.

Edited by: Squared55

Oct 1 2013, 3:24am Anchor
Ashkandi wrote:My team is just do planning together, and make decisions as a team in every stuff for our game like story, gameplay, etc - because that's the best for a small team.

An "idea" guy want to join the team but he just simply can't do as much as we can. We make all the content, code, animations, gameplay for the game and he want to write ad signs, notes and skill tooltips for a good % of the income. Who will accept guys like these for any kind of game? At least learn photoshop or the engine itself to be useful, no one wants a pencil acrobat in a 3-4ppl team.


The irony of that is I would most likely do more work alone than the whole team combined.

Oct 1 2013, 5:12am Anchor
Anaconda_Vice wrote:
Ashkandi wrote:My team is just do planning together, and make decisions as a team in every stuff for our game like story, gameplay, etc - because that's the best for a small team.

An "idea" guy want to join the team but he just simply can't do as much as we can. We make all the content, code, animations, gameplay for the game and he want to write ad signs, notes and skill tooltips for a good % of the income. Who will accept guys like these for any kind of game? At least learn photoshop or the engine itself to be useful, no one wants a pencil acrobat in a 3-4ppl team.


The irony of that is I would most likely do more work alone than the whole team combined.


Then I'm wondering why you need more people. If you can code, animate and all the other stuff the team can do. Do you have any examples of your previous work that you can use to prove your claim? Or is it just another empty sentance.

Oct 1 2013, 5:49am Anchor
Naqser wrote:
Then I'm wondering why you need more people. If you can code, animate and all the other stuff the team can do. Do you have any examples of your previous work that you can use to prove your claim? Or is it just another empty sentance.

There's plenty of material in this thread about what he is. People write so much trying to give more or less friendly advice and he just one lines and skips stuff, gives up on discussion and then proceeds to bump his dead thread back up later when he's bored.

My advice is to ignore this guy and spend your insight on people who are willing to listen...

Oct 1 2013, 5:55am Anchor
Naqser wrote:
Anaconda_Vice wrote:
Ashkandi wrote:My team is just do planning together, and make decisions as a team in every stuff for our game like story, gameplay, etc - because that's the best for a small team.

An "idea" guy want to join the team but he just simply can't do as much as we can. We make all the content, code, animations, gameplay for the game and he want to write ad signs, notes and skill tooltips for a good % of the income. Who will accept guys like these for any kind of game? At least learn photoshop or the engine itself to be useful, no one wants a pencil acrobat in a 3-4ppl team.


The irony of that is I would most likely do more work alone than the whole team combined.


Then I'm wondering why you need more people. If you can code, animate and all the other stuff the team can do. Do you have any examples of your previous work that you can use to prove your claim? Or is it just another empty sentance.


I have never spoken a single empty sentence, I have never exaggerated what is true and what isn't.  I've only merely made this 'elites' group of people seem like monkeys and quite frankly that's probably true.  Everyone that has replied to this thread has acted high and mighty, but the truth is they're not.  They're on the internet and I'm on the internet.  I don't have to show you anything and I don't have to prove to you anything.  But, the project I've been working on has come a long way in about four months.  With where I'm at now building this from scratch.  You're out of your league if you think you can compare to me because you helped make a failure of an RTS.  Your turn.

Edited by: Anaconda_Vice

Oct 1 2013, 6:31am Anchor

The only thing this guy has ever achieved as far as the internet knows is this thread. He has been asked many times to show anything to support his ridiculous claims about how great he is and what he has done but he has shown none.

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