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Calling out to all Battlestar Galactica modders!!! (Forums : General Banter : Calling out to all Battlestar Galactica modders!!!) Locked
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ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Oct 11 2011, 11:48am Anchor

Romnus, those days never existed except maybe in your dreams - the legal issues have been present for as long as people have been making games.

Oct 11 2011, 7:52pm Anchor

I would like to know the real reason why NBC banned fan based mods?

Oct 11 2011, 9:49pm Anchor

Lack of foresight.

Admiral_Skeybar
Admiral_Skeybar Designer
Oct 11 2011, 11:38pm Anchor
brolee wrote:I would like to know the real reason why NBC banned fan based mods?

Money probably, BsG online is now their "big thing" they want everyone to know about so they pull everything that could possibly compete with that. And considering that nearly every BsG mod or indie project I have seen is both completely free and looks much better than Bigpoints game can ever be, I'd say that is why they chose to ban the mods now, because BsG online isn't even close to as successful as the hoped it would be.

It's sad really but when you get down to it, money is always the dominant factor.

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"Not lazy, I'm passive progressive."  

Oct 12 2011, 4:19am Anchor

Is that the reason though? Does Universal actually make any money off of Bippoint's game? It could easily be that Bigpoint bought the licence and assumed all the risk themselves, thereby getting to keep all the profit.

ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Oct 12 2011, 4:43am Anchor

The point that many of you are missing is how copyrights are upheld in certain states - if a copyright isn't visibly seen to be actively protected by the holder, it can potentially be considered lost, and that's a particularly worrying prospect for any copyright holder. Worse yet, those responsible (usually an external agency) for protecting copyrights owned by large companies will often be expected to be doing a 'minimum level of work' at elast, so stomping on fan projects makes it look like they're doing their job.

Oct 12 2011, 6:28am Anchor

I doubt Bigpoint had anything to do with this. BSG Online made most of it's player base during open beta, which ended some time ago, and the game's been open to the public for well over 6 months now. If anyone was worried about BSG Online losing profits due to mods, they would have acted before the game was out - they did know about the mods back then. Plus, BSG Online is a completely different game to what any of these mods have to offer, and I doubt they'd see a few mods with small audiences that offer a completely different gameplay as direct competition. Nah, either NBC's got something new going or someone's been trying to impress the boss in the legal department.

Edited by: newman1702

ind1
ind1 Evil Genius
Oct 12 2011, 7:34am Anchor

BSG On-line is having a huge advertising campaign at the moment,
pulling these mods is just business directing people to BSG On-line

MGM tried this a few years ago trying to shut down Stargate mods they got rid of a few but then gave up,

Played BSG On-line last night and its an ok game i would rather a sins of a solar empire style but its still worth a play.

My advice to BSG Mods is to keep going as long as you are not making profit and that you put a disclaimer at the bottom of your website you should be fine, the reason they will have targeted moddb is because you all have the ability to sell mods here through Desura.

simples

Edited by: ind1

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Hi

Oct 12 2011, 8:17am Anchor
ind1 wrote:Played BSG On-line last night and its an ok game i would rather a sins of a solar empire style but its still worth a play.


I think Nexus: The Jupiter Incident's gameplay would fit BSG better.

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Jok3r098
Jok3r098 “A computer is like air conditioning – it becomes useless when you open Windows” - Linus Torvals
Oct 12 2011, 10:52am Anchor
ind1 wrote:BSG On-line is having a huge advertising campaign at the moment,
pulling these mods is just business directing people to BSG On-line

MGM tried this a few years ago trying to shut down Stargate mods they got rid of a few but then gave up,

Played BSG On-line last night and its an ok game i would rather a sins of a solar empire style but its still worth a play.

My advice to BSG Mods is to keep going as long as you are not making profit and that you put a disclaimer at the bottom of your website you should be fine, the reason they will have targeted moddb is because you all have the ability to sell mods here through Desura.

simples


I agree, pleeeease everyone keep going, if all else fails you could put installers up on some dodgy underground east asian server and rely on word of mouth.
Aulthough i would argue against the BSGO 'worth a play' bit, that game is reallly badd, what on earth were they thinking -.-

Oct 12 2011, 1:34pm Anchor

Have you heard anything back, Soul?

ind1
ind1 Evil Genius
Oct 12 2011, 7:04pm Anchor

after some more playing of the game today, lets just say i wont be playing again as i started to get into it i just didn't like it, at least i can say i have it a go ;)

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Hi

Oct 12 2011, 7:09pm Anchor
ambershee wrote:The point that many of you are missing is how copyrights are upheld in certain states - if a copyright isn't visibly seen to be actively protected by the holder, it can potentially be considered lost, and that's a particularly worrying prospect for any copyright holder. Worse yet, those responsible (usually an external agency) for protecting copyrights owned by large companies will often be expected to be doing a 'minimum level of work' at elast, so stomping on fan projects makes it look like they're doing their job.

I think you're thinking of trademarks not copyright.

Gibberstein
Gibberstein Generic Coder Type Thing
Oct 12 2011, 7:24pm Anchor

You may well be right - but since both are involved here, BSG mods are still on the bad end of the gun in this situation. The only way out is to convince MGM to stop shooting.

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"lets say Portal is a puzzle game, so its a rehash of Tetris"
- Wraiyth points out the craziness of stereotyping games by their genre

Oct 12 2011, 11:25pm Anchor

NBCU sure didn't think twice about kicking dirt into the faces of modders and programmers/modelers everywhere, but they sure were happy a few months ago when they hired members of a popular mod to help them make stunning assets for their awfull battlestar galactica online game. Diaspora.hard-light.net A few months later, they turn around and destroy all of our fan projects... It's just not nice, how do you think these guys got so good at making those ships? Whoever made BSGO should be fired and replaced with every team member who worked on a battlestar galactica mod! Only then will I unblock NBC from all the T.V.s in my house and let my wife and kids watch The Office! :D

Oct 13 2011, 1:10am Anchor

Bear in mind that Bigpoint are NOT NBC Universal. All the discussion about hiring Diaspora's modders was between Bigpoint and Diaspora. Universal were never involved in that and probably never even knew it happened.

Oct 13 2011, 2:06am Anchor

Oh they knew, they were the licensors, so they knew :P

Marchello
Marchello Taurus group member
Oct 13 2011, 2:22am Anchor

can we tell them about that? mabye it will help, when they realize, that even BSGO, whitch brings them money, was developed with help of modders...

Oct 13 2011, 4:08am Anchor

Guys for the love of god don't be scared. NBC can't do anything to you, fuck that copyright bullshit. Make your own forums/sites and continue the mods. Again i repeat they can't do anything to you !!!

Oct 13 2011, 4:33am Anchor

We should show them what we have given back to them AND the community, then they might let us bring our work back! :D

Oct 13 2011, 4:52am Anchor
romnus wrote:Oh they knew, they were the licensors, so they knew :P

I wouldn't be too certain. I think the Diaspora Dev Blog post was the only place it was ever actually mentioned publicly unless it's somewhere on Bigpoint's forums too. Bigpoint don't have to state where they got their freelancers from so it's possible they wouldn't know.

Oct 13 2011, 8:02am Anchor

NBC is essentially publisher on BSGOnline, publishers don't care who the developer hires, so long as the project gets done. Publishers approve budgets, not people.
Letting NBCU know about the use of modders in BSGOnline might be a good idea, though. Either way, I'm curious as to whether or not we've gotten any kind of response. SoulAssassino?

ambershee
ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks
Oct 13 2011, 8:13am Anchor
Karajorma wrote:
ambershee wrote:The point that many of you are missing is how copyrights are upheld in certain states - if a copyright isn't visibly seen to be actively protected by the holder, it can potentially be considered lost, and that's a particularly worrying prospect for any copyright holder. Worse yet, those responsible (usually an external agency) for protecting copyrights owned by large companies will often be expected to be doing a 'minimum level of work' at elast, so stomping on fan projects makes it look like they're doing their job.

I think you're thinking of trademarks not copyright.


That may well be the case, but BSG is still trademarked - so it's likely the point remains ;)

Edited by: ambershee

Oct 13 2011, 11:49am Anchor

This entire forum is great, but I think we should start to organize some of our ideas, with the final goal of writing an essay to NBCU on behalf of the entire community that expresses our concerns in a passive-aggressive tone. They are not responding to individuals about this subject, so opening communications with a community-formed letter would allow us to put this entire thing behind us, and hopefully get some understanding from the IP holder, as well as explain the teams non-profit goals and the purpose of modding: to gain experience, and more importantly; to pay tribute to great works of fiction. Mentioning the modders who worked for BigPoint would also be a good idea. We need to hurry though, before this issue loses relevance, and we lose any support from the people who have been hurt in this situation.

Assaultman67
Assaultman67 Needs a fuckin' title
Oct 13 2011, 2:47pm Anchor

Speaking on behalf of all the modders who are using Intellectual Property without permission ...

Whenever you create something using someone elses IP you are doing something Illegal and either three things will happen.

a) Nothing.
b) You get told to stop.
c) You get sued.

If they send you a notice telling you to cease and desist. You need to accept that the project is "over" and should never be released publicly, otherwise, you are highly at risk of being sued (and rightfully so).

Now, moddb has been noticed by NBCU to remove all the mods on the site. However, I don't know if the individuals who are ACTUALLY producing the mods have been contacted. This could be considered a loophole to continue working on the mod elsewhere (unless moddb has been told to contact the teams ... which doesn't seem to be the case). However, I would suggest that the mod teams sit down and discuss the risks of going forth with the mod. If this isn't a red flag I don't know what is. This demonstrates that NBCU is aware there are mods out there for the BSG IP which means you are now on their radar.

When me and redfrog produced MarsWars which is a Red Faction mod for
UT2k4 we knew that any day there was a risk of being shut down by
volition. When RF:G came out we we're pretty much shitting bricks thinking that at any moment we could get a cease and desist order.

To this day I'm not even sure Volition is even aware of Mars Wars ... (the mod name itself was specifically lacking of any "red faction" mention to keep us relatively off the grid on the "google radar" ... Ironically, now there is a MMO named Mars War which we are not sure predates the mod or not ... so its possible we violated a copyright from one company and a trademark from the other. :S)

Anywho it was a pretty tense scenario for a while ... especially considering how dangerously close the red faction community were with the developers at volition. Shit, we had email addresses for employees who worked there so we could email them when the tracker was down ... LOL

As for people attacking the moddb staff ... Leave them alone!

You need to recognize you're angry over the mod being pulled (and not the fact that you weren't notified) and you're taking your anger out on the wrong people. You are just looking for excuses to yell at someone.

If that is the case, you can yell at me. Just think of me as the lawyer at NBCU who sent the request to pull the mods.

It would have been nice to recieve a notification saying "the mod has been deleted because _____" but they would have to send one out to every single BSG mod. Thats a very tedious task you are asking from them and they probably have their hands full on a regular work day (let alone the day when you are legally obligated to sift through thousands of mods on your site and remove all the mods related to the ___ IP.)

As for the Moddb mods. Don't get worked up, try to remain calm, Don't respond to their anger, act more apologetic and humble :P (they're angry and the more you talk back the more you present yourself as a target for your anger ... If I were a moddb admin, The moment this discussion came up I would have said "That is a good suggestion! We will consider it for future use!" or something along those lines. (I'm not saying you should lie to them, just be very, very polite. If an individual keeps attacking you despite what you say, onlookers will just make them out to be the asshole in the conversation.)

Recognizing a potential PR situation (someone blaming you for ____, angry mob looking for a scapegoat, etc.) and responding to it accordingly can HEAVILY influence the resulting discussion as well as the overall view by the public ...

I guarantee this would have been a much shorter and more positive conversation if a representative of Moddb responded very tactfully. It's kinda difficult, I know, but if you can manage to set some of your pride and emotions aside, it pays off.

Basically ... use more mind ju-jitsu.

(heh, Who knew that I would learn valuable social lessons from the internet. And sorry for the very long post, lol)

Edited by: Assaultman67

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