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Calling out to all Battlestar Galactica modders!!! (Forums : General Banter : Calling out to all Battlestar Galactica modders!!!) Locked
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Oct 9 2011, 4:38pm Anchor
TKAzA wrote:I wasn't aware of this issue, however moddb's stance is always to uphold the copyright holders rights, if you choose to make fanArt you choose to put yourself and your teams hard work in the firing line of the licencor of that IP.
I'm sorry to hear so many bsg mods have had to be removed due to this, i'm guessing with the release of BSG online a main reason for NBC to do this is, to bottle neck fans to playing due to lack of other choice.

newman1702 wrote:This makes no sense to me. Remove all the mods based on some IP from moddb, you lose half the moddb. I mean, just run a search on it for terms like "star wars", "star trek", etc.. I fail to understand what does anyone have to gain by pulling a bunch of non profit mods off a modding site. As a member of the Diaspora team, however, right now I am mostly disappointed in the moddb staff that not only failed to inform us that they are taking down our pages and why, they also failed to respond to our inquiry about it for more than 24 hours. That is just completely unprofessional. I see their admins are doing an excellent job of avoiding this thread, too..

To address your concerns.

ModDB is not just BSG fans, get real we were round long before the re envisioned series.
It states in our terms of use and when you make a profile, you can't breach copyright, we will allow people to upload fanArt however if the IP owner asks us to remove them, we will, would you rather a few mods go or the whole site?

I'm a admin, have been for a long time and only found out about this from this thread, i stand by the staffs actions as it's the law and we don't need to justify ourselves due to this.
 
Protest as much as you want, as a avid BSG fan i support you but don't go badmouthing staff doing their job.



I'm not protesting the fact that if moddb is asked by NBC-Universal to take down our project, then moddb has little choice in doing so. You'll note that my main complaint was that the Diaspora team has not, to this moment, been contacted by any of the moddb staff about the takedown. We were not warned in advance that moddb has to do it, we were not contacted afterwards, we then sent a question to moddb staff well over a day ago and to this moment haven't received so much as a word.
I have never stated that moddb was just about bsg (where would you get such an idea from?) or that you're somehow expected to tell NBC "no" when they tell you to take down mods based on their IP. Nobody expects that, and when I say that such a decision makes no sense I'm directing that towards NBC. When I say that it's completely unprofessional to take down a project without notifying the project lead, and then fail to respond to an inquiry about it for well over 24 hours, then I'm directing my complaint towards moddb. I trust that makes the distinction clear?
I'm sorry if this sounds like "badmouthing the staff" but I do believe that since to this moment we weren't notified about this at all, our project just having vanished, we do have the right to express some to-be-expected polite dissatisfaction with the failure on the part of moddb's staff to send us a simple e-mail.

Edited by: newman1702

Oct 9 2011, 4:38pm Anchor

While I disagree with badmouthing the staff, it was a bid rude of ModDB not properly notifying the mod teams they were closing. I'm 100% in agreement with taking the content down as stated in the terms of use, but ModDB could have handled it a bit more gracefully. 

That being said, we're trying to take avenues of polite and courteous discourse with NBCU executives, in order to come to some arrangement. While we may not be able to come back to ModDB (I'm hoping we can), we may certainly be able to host the mod on our own website.

100% in agreement, newman.

Oct 9 2011, 4:53pm Anchor

When the copyright holders come, your choice is to fold or go lose money in court.

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Oct 9 2011, 4:56pm Anchor
Oct 9 2011, 5:03pm Anchor
TKAzA wrote:I wasn't aware of this issue, however moddb's stance is always to uphold the copyright holders rights, if you choose to make fanArt you choose to put yourself and your teams hard work in the firing line of the licencor of that IP.
I'm sorry to hear so many bsg mods have had to be removed due to this, i'm guessing with the release of BSG online a main reason for NBC to do this is, to bottle neck fans to playing due to lack of other choice.

newman1702 wrote:This makes no sense to me. Remove all the mods based on some IP from moddb, you lose half the moddb. I mean, just run a search on it for terms like "star wars", "star trek", etc.. I fail to understand what does anyone have to gain by pulling a bunch of non profit mods off a modding site. As a member of the Diaspora team, however, right now I am mostly disappointed in the moddb staff that not only failed to inform us that they are taking down our pages and why, they also failed to respond to our inquiry about it for more than 24 hours. That is just completely unprofessional. I see their admins are doing an excellent job of avoiding this thread, too..

To address your concerns.

ModDB is not just BSG fans, get real we were round long before the re envisioned series.
It states in our terms of use and when you make a profile, you can't breach copyright, we will allow people to upload fanArt however if the IP owner asks us to remove them, we will, would you rather a few mods go or the whole site?

I'm a admin, have been for a long time and only found out about this from this thread, i stand by the staffs actions as it's the law and we don't need to justify ourselves due to this.
 
Protest as much as you want, as a avid BSG fan i support you but don't go badmouthing staff doing their job.


I'm sorry, but did you read his entire post?  He was pointing out that MANY of the mods on ModDB are based on copyrighted IP.  He used the examples "Star Wars," and "Star Trek."  But that expands to numerous other IP's as well.

Oct 9 2011, 5:17pm Anchor
TKAzA wrote:It states in our terms of use and when you make a profile, you can't breach copyright, we will allow people to upload fanArt however if the IP owner asks us to remove them, we will, would you rather a few mods go or the whole site? I'm a admin, have been for a long time and only found out about this from this thread, i stand by the staffs actions as it's the law and we don't need to justify ourselves due to this.
 
Protest as much as you want, as a avid BSG fan i support you but don't go badmouthing staff doing their job.

Deleting the diaspora page and not informing the involved members at all on what is going on. Good job doing your jobs, staff.

Oct 9 2011, 5:20pm Anchor
KingSpoon wrote:
TKAzA wrote:It states in our terms of use and when you make a profile, you can't breach copyright, we will allow people to upload fanArt however if the IP owner asks us to remove them, we will, would you rather a few mods go or the whole site? I'm a admin, have been for a long time and only found out about this from this thread, i stand by the staffs actions as it's the law and we don't need to justify ourselves due to this.
 
Protest as much as you want, as a avid BSG fan i support you but don't go badmouthing staff doing their job.

Deleting the diaspora page and not informing the involved members at all on what is going on. Good job doing your jobs, staff.


You were using someone else's IP without permission and you're complaining your page got taken down?

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Oct 9 2011, 5:33pm Anchor
masternerdguy wrote:
You were using someone else's IP without permission and you're complaining your page got taken down?

Many modder teams decide to take this risk - a simple search will tell you just how many hosted projects here are based on commercial IPs. These people love a certain universe / franchise, they'd love a game based in it, and they go make their own total conversion / mod. These projects are always volunteer based, non profit ones that take a long time to complete, more often then not they die before they get to release, and even when they don't, quite honestly most of the time their fan bases are small, niche based that can't really compete or cut into the profits of big commercial AAA games.
But that's not really the issue here. Like I said, if the legal IP owner decides to tell moddb to take down such a project from it's site, moddb can't do anything but oblige. All I'm saying is it would have been nice to have been notified about it at all. To this moment Diaspora team has had no official notice about the takedown - most of our information on it came from this very thread. That's just wrong, in my opinion.

Oct 9 2011, 5:35pm Anchor
newman1702 wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
You were using someone else's IP without permission and you're complaining your page got taken down?

Many modder teams decide to take this risk - a simple search will tell you just how many hosted projects here are based on commercial IPs. These people love a certain universe / franchise, they'd love a game based in it, and they go make their own total conversion / mod. These projects are always volunteer based, non profit ones that take a long time to complete, more often then not they die before they get to release, and even when they don't, quite honestly most of the time their fan bases are small, niche based that can't really compete or cut into the profits of big commercial AAA games.
But that's not really the issue here. Like I said, if the legal IP owner decides to tell moddb to take down such a project from it's site, moddb can't do anything but oblige. All I'm saying is it would have been nice to have been notified about it at all. To this moment Diaspora team has had no official notice about the takedown - most of our information on it came from this very thread. That's just wrong, in my opinion.


Aah ok.

I thought you were complaining about the takedown, but I agree if your mod is removed you should at least get an email.

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Oct 9 2011, 5:41pm Anchor
Oct 9 2011, 7:10pm Anchor

This is really disappointing to here. The nexus mod was fantastic, and I was closely watching a mod in development for Sins of a Solar Empire.

Henley
Henley the sun never sets on the eternally cool
Oct 9 2011, 7:49pm Anchor

Just so everyone is aware we have no responsibility to notify all users of each modification about the closure of the profile. When contacted by one member we will tell that member what happened, we cannot control if that member chooses to tell anyone else about it.

Lets clear the air here, NBC Universal contacted ModDB about the removal of the IP from the site, we removed the mods using that particular IP from the site. Anyone inquiring about the fate of their profiles were notified. Let it be known, that using an IP you do not own will eventually lead to your closure after significant growth. 

Email the support@moddb.com if you have any issues with this. 

moddb_tos wrote:ModDB moderators retain the right to remove any content from personal and gaming profiles in breach of the above and will deal with the member responsible in the manner they deem necessary.

Any person who feels that a particular post is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and will make every effort to do so within reason and within a reasonable time frame if we determine that removal is appropriate. This is a manual process, so please realize that we may not be able to effect results immediately.

ModDB moderators and agents will not be liable for any damages of any kind incurred as a result of any message posted to ModDB. Once you post content on any page, you expressly grant ModDB the right to use, reproduce, modify, distribute, etc. the content in any form, anywhere. ModDB, moderators and its agents will cooperate with any 3rd party litigation, investigation, or police action (public, private or government) against any member with full disclosure of any information we have gathered through these dynamic pages.

Last Updated: March 3, 2010

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Oct 9 2011, 8:22pm Anchor

We are  getting press about it on Kotaku at least. Perhaps NBC will listen to our plea letters --> Kotaku.com

Oct 9 2011, 8:25pm Anchor
jstubbles wrote:We are  getting press about it on Kotaku at least. Perhaps NBC will listen to our plea letters --> Kotaku.com

I wish you all good luck. A lot of mods were wiped out.

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Oct 9 2011, 8:45pm Anchor
Henley wrote:Just so everyone is aware we have no responsibility to notify all users of each modification about the closure of the profile. When contacted by one member we will tell that member what happened, we cannot control if that member chooses to tell anyone else about it.

1) I sent the ModDB a mail over 3 days ago asking politely what happened to the mod I'm the project lead for. I never received any reply.

2) While you can say you have no responsibility to notify people if you choose to close their profile it unprofessional to not do so. Especially when this is a profile that has been present for many years and which you have had to close due to external objections to it. Leaving the modders responsible scratching their heads and wondering what happened to their profile for up to 48 hours while they wait for a reply is amateurish.

3) The stock boilerplate "Game Over" message that has replaced our mods is similarly unprofessional. It gives no details about what happened and serves only to confuse both the users and the modders involved in the project.

I do not blame ModDB for taking down the BSG mods after being contacted by NBC Universal. Of course they have to. Making a mod using the IP that belongs to someone else is a risk we chose to take and I don't feel it is the ModDB's responsibility to fight for us.
 But the attitude of the ModDB towards that closure and yours in particular is abysmal. While it might be acceptable in a fan run mod site, it is unprofessional in a company which is attempting to position itself as a major player when it comes to delivery of mods to the gaming public. You are basically telling the modders and users who use Desura that  you will simply delete their game from it should you feel the need and leave their installed userbase scratching their heads wondering where it went. Which basically means that any project using someone else's IP should have nothing to do with you.

Edited by: Karajorma

Oct 9 2011, 10:43pm Anchor

Reading this thread reminds me of a few years back when all the halo mods were pulled from moddb. Moddb doesn't fight for your mods, they roll over and let the community fight for itself. I doubt very much that the battlestar galactica modding community will be heard in the same voice that the halo community was and eventually won the right to have mods exist under the Halo ip on other games that people created. Once all the mods based on other ips are gone from this site, I imagine a great many people will leave and never return.

Oct 9 2011, 11:02pm Anchor

The way that moddb is handling this would have been acceptable with an apology for taking so long to respond. Instead their staff on here chose to be rude and unhelpful, and that is UNACCEPTABLE!

If you actually read the complaints, nobody is blaming moddb for taking them down. They are upset at NBC for the takedown and upset at moddb for the lack of notification, explanation and/or reply.
Yes we understand that your policy says that you don't have to, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it anyway.

Again, the response by staff on here is appalling and I will seriously rethink using Desura or moddb in the future because of this. 

Oct 9 2011, 11:13pm Anchor

Thing is, I don't expect them to fight for us (although it would be nice if they did!). I just expect a little courtesy from them. Beyond the Red Line, for instance, has been on this site for over 5 years and is a winner of a ModDB Mod of the Year contest. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect something of that calibre to at least get something better than "This mod has been deleted, here's a few possible reasons why it might have happened!"

Oct 9 2011, 11:38pm Anchor

Does this mean that the all the BSG mods are gone as in they have received C&Ds as well?

If so NBC Universal will have lost my interest both as a company and as a Television Station.

Edited by: HeadClot

Henley
Henley the sun never sets on the eternally cool
Oct 10 2011, 1:19am Anchor
Karajorma wrote:Thing is, I don't expect them to fight for us (although it would be nice if they did!). I just expect a little courtesy from them. Beyond the Red Line, for instance, has been on this site for over 5 years and is a winner of a ModDB Mod of the Year contest. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect something of that calibre to at least get something better than "This mod has been deleted, here's a few possible reasons why it might have happened!"

Coagmano wrote:The way that moddb is handling this would have been acceptable with an apology for taking so long to respond. Instead their staff on here chose to be rude and unhelpful, and that is UNACCEPTABLE!

If you actually read the complaints, nobody is blaming moddb for taking them down. They are upset at NBC for the takedown and upset at moddb for the lack of notification, explanation and/or reply.
Yes we understand that your policy says that you don't have to, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it anyway.

Again, the response by staff on here is appalling and I will seriously rethink using Desura or moddb in the future because of this. 


There is not a whole lot we can say about the subject. Until this issue has been resolved we cannot go into detail about the closures. Once we are able to talk about it people will be notified. If any of you are aware of what happens during CnD's you would know of the red tape.

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Oct 10 2011, 4:31am Anchor

There's a difference between not being able to say much and saying something confusing though. A simple "This mod has been temporarily disabled due to legal issues. Efforts are under-way to resolve these and the teams involved have been notified" sounds much better than the confusing mess you have on all our mod pages.

My other complaint with the ModDB was that you took down the profile for my game over 3 days ago and STILL haven't bothered to reply to my emails about it. As I said before that's simply not professional. I simply do not believe that a C&D prohibits you from sending an email to the teams involved explaining at least some of what happened even if you can't tell the general public.

Oct 10 2011, 6:03am Anchor

As you could have read, we 100% agree with ModDB's action, as it is the only way you guys don't get sued to oblivion by a billion dollar megacorporation.

We made the mistake by not contacting the copyright owners for their permission.

The only thing would like to ask of you is this: please have the courtesy to drop a message to the mod authors explaining what is happening. Write up a standard email.
We all appreciate your work, but i feel that since ModDB would be nothing without it's users, please respect them.

And i did ask, and would like to ask again: could you please help us opening up communication channels to thr copyright owners, so we can ask for their permission to re-submit and carry on with our projects? I'm doing my best but it is extremely difficult to find someone there who will actually read an email i send them.

TKAzA wrote:I wasn't aware of this issue, however moddb's stance is always to uphold the copyright holders rights, if you choose to make fanArt you choose to put yourself and your teams hard work in the firing line of the licencor of that IP.
I'm sorry to hear so many bsg mods have had to be removed due to this, i'm guessing with the release of BSG online a main reason for NBC to do this is, to bottle neck fans to playing due to lack of other choice.

newman1702 wrote:This makes no sense to me. Remove all the mods based on some IP from moddb, you lose half the moddb. I mean, just run a search on it for terms like "star wars", "star trek", etc.. I fail to understand what does anyone have to gain by pulling a bunch of non profit mods off a modding site. As a member of the Diaspora team, however, right now I am mostly disappointed in the moddb staff that not only failed to inform us that they are taking down our pages and why, they also failed to respond to our inquiry about it for more than 24 hours. That is just completely unprofessional. I see their admins are doing an excellent job of avoiding this thread, too..

To address your concerns.

ModDB is not just BSG fans, get real we were round long before the re envisioned series.
It states in our terms of use and when you make a profile, you can't breach copyright, we will allow people to upload fanArt however if the IP owner asks us to remove them, we will, would you rather a few mods go or the whole site?

I'm a admin, have been for a long time and only found out about this from this thread, i stand by the staffs actions as it's the law and we don't need to justify ourselves due to this.
 
Protest as much as you want, as a avid BSG fan i support you but don't go badmouthing staff doing their job.

Oct 10 2011, 10:17am Anchor

I can see ModDB's need to remove these mods however I agree that a message such as the above-suggested "This mod has been temporarily disabled due to legal issues. Efforts are under-way to resolve these and the teams involved have been notified" (or perhaps "has been removed due to..." if it feels more appropriate) would be great (note: I have no idea what message, if any, is currently shown).

Edited by: Zarius

Oct 10 2011, 9:25pm Anchor

I agree with Stubbles,

A canderous, diplomatic approach will serve us best.

As for ModDB... at first I understood etc... but the more I read their responses the more I am appalled.  Their reply's in this thread should be shown
the next time their up for any kind of "Customer Service Award"

For shame, FOR SHAME.....

Oct 11 2011, 10:53am Anchor

Jeez, It seems like you need a creative commons license just to make a legal IP mod these days... :(
I miss the old days, when you could put battlestar galactica, star wars, and Babylon 5 in the game "Bridge commander" without any legal issues. :(

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