Best place to start learning how to mod Thread

Hello all,I am interested in getting into the gaming industry professionally and I have heard that game modding is a good way to get experience. Since I have never done anything like modding I have been doing some research and have found that there are numerous game engines to choose from. It seems that there is plenty of things to learn out there and I am not sure where would be the best place to start. Should a beginner delve into UDK or do something that seems more straight forward such as the Morrowind TES Construction Set? Thanks guys!

it all depends on what part you want to do: modeling, textures, programming
tell us that first

Thanks for the response!

Programming would be my first choice. I am interested in learning all aspects, but programming fits my background.

I started out in the Source Engine (Half-Life 2), and I've learned how to texture, model, map, and program (Well, I learned the actual programming elsewhere, but I changed some of the source code for my little mods)

Source would not be such a good choice to begin as the source code is quite messy
it depends on what you know tho.
don't know what engine is good for learning what language (aside from the basics)
but here are some recommendations:
Löve engine -> Lua (2d engine)
Unity -> JavaScript, C#
XNA -> C# (i know not a engine :p)
and thats it from the top of my head xD
note that these 3 have no "start" point for code -> you basicly have to make the game from scratch, just the basic rendering has been done for you (some more then the others)

the best place to start is at the begigning.

I'm partial to Doom3 & Quake 2. Doom 3 has lots of stuff that's in scripts, so you don't need a compiler to get started for programming. All it's file formats are industry standards or text-based so there's lots of exporters to use. You can see most changes w/o exiting the game.

I'd suggest doom 3, just because of it's ease-of-use. You can download existing mods/maps to see how things are done.

90% of all the stuff out there for modding doom 3 is done by community members so it's relatively easy to follow. They made a nice reference site that gives descriptions & examples of most of the scripting, making it even easier.

Thanks for the advice guys! Keep them coming please

So no one recommends the TES construction set (specifically Morrowind)? Although I have more of a programming background, i am very interested in learning as much as I can. Thanks again!

TES Construction Set would be an alright choice. It's relatively simple and intuitive. It's got a good amount of documentation. I'm sure you could manage to do some things in it with a little research.

This is the wiki for it. There is a lot of information there.
Cs.elderscrolls.com

Edited by: NGS616

construction set has a not so industry standard workflow tho
and from experience, a bit buggy :p
but its an allright tool i think :p

There's a lot to be said for doing what interests you (even if it's not the typical beginners path) - since no path to games development is easy, it's better to choose one you're enthusiastic about, so you can keep up motivation. If you really want to do a Morrowind mod, do it. Even the easiest way to learn isn't easy, so it's better to face slightly tougher problems with enthusiasm than take on tough problems half heartedly.

That said UDK is also quite a nice environment to work in if you've learned programming already. UScript is a Java-like language with some very nice features built specifically for common game programming tasks. There's also a nicely growing body of tutorials out there for it (including Ambershee's tuts here )

anybody have suggestions on where to get started for animating? scott roths civil protection animations was done in hammer and the sdk i'd like to find a tut somewhere on how to start there

Thanks alot Gibberstein! That was great advice! To be honest I am a bit of a Star Wars fanatic so that would have to be where my true interest and enthusiasm lies .

The primary reason I mentioned Morrowind was because of its rumored ease of use (and its all I knew about). A friend and I are getting started out and we both thought it might be a good introduction but I wasnt sure if it was the best choice. He is not looking into making game development a career choice so I am more concerned about starting out in the right direction (not necessary easy but a good intro) than he might be.

I keep hearing good things about about UDK. I may discuss giving this a try with my friend. Is this more of a "typical beginners path"? Thanks again!

Edited by: NGS616

Yeah, Unreal has a lot to offer, even compared to Unity.
Unity scores by making it easier to just start making a game.
When using the Unreal Engine, even with the UDK, you'll have to dig through lots of code to get your first own game mechanic working.
If you do successfully, the UDK makes way better results for free, if you don't, you'll use Unity because you simply start from zero, and that's fun.

I wouldn't touch Unity until Version 3 is released due to the lack of a debugger. Its a big pain in the arse trying to work without one, even moreso if you're a beginner.

UDK is arguably the best engine going around right now, and what ngs616 said is true. UnrealScript is a solid enough language that you'll run into very little that you can't do with it. As someone less experienced, its probably easier to learn basic programming concepts first before tackling anything, and there are plenty of resources on the net for it (www.cprogrmaming.com comes to mind).

Unity isn't a very good beginners engine IMO. The documentation is solid and it has a massive community but you don't really get provided with a full, deep game like you do if you start with UDK (you get the code for UT Demo).

Unity has some debugging functionality, but it could be better indeed :p
they should make the profiler available in free version tho, handy tool (in fact, any engine needs it by default imo :p)

Sigma wrote: Unity has some debugging functionality, but it could be better indeed :p
they should make the profiler available in free version tho, handy tool (in fact, any engine needs it by default imo :p)

It has debug prints and stuff but not a proper debugger, afaik, thats coming in Unity 3

Thanks guys! I have downloaded UDK but have not played with it yet. Do you have any tutorials that you can suggest?

If anyone else has any other suggestions or advice please feel free to add them.

You should watch the 3d Buzz video tutorials, in the order they are displayed on this page.
Udn.epicgames.com

It is a lot to watch. It's around 30 hours or something! But it will teach you a whole lot about what you want to know. And you can mod the UT3 demo for some practice.

Edited by: NGS616

Wraiyth wrote: I wouldn't touch Unity until Version 3 is released due to the lack of a debugger. Its a big pain in the arse trying to work without one, even moreso if you're a beginner.

I'd say using a debugger is NOT a good thing for a beginner. Those tend to not teach you how to code properly, similar to how spell check doesn't help you spell, it just points out mistakes. Makes for more sloppy programmers.

On a broader note, I'm wondering why @ the start of the thread, things like Unity & UDK were suggested against because there's nothing to work with vs modding an existing game. If the engine route is being done then I'd say anything by id: it's free, LOTS of GPL code out there to look at & Doom Q1/2/3 are perhaps the most documented engines out there to date.

Gibberstein wrote: There's also a nicely growing body of tutorials out there for it (including Ambershee's tuts here )

Mine are way out of date (for UT3, written in 2007) - there's a better selection out there

Thanks HappyFriar. I actually have all of the older doom PC games but I wouldnt even know where to start modding them. Do you have any particular references that you favor (such as toolkits, etc)? Also are you saying that with the UDK and Unity packages are more for creating games vs modding them? Thanks for all the help guys!

UDK and Unity are definitely very much game creation tools, they aren't intended (nor suitable) for modding. Generally a moddable game will have it's own set of tools that you can apply and learn your way around (and many operate in fairly similar ways too, which is thankful) - in any case, google tends to be the single best way of finding out about them.

The line between modding and indie games is pretty thoroughly blurred now, to the point that the difference is nonexistent until you are ready to release. A more useful question to look at might be how big is the project, and are there any key features you want that might be easier to do in one set of tools over another?

To answer that you really need to tell us what you see yourself doing in the future, gamedev wise

mrlove82 wrote: Thanks HappyFriar. I actually have all of the older doom PC games but I wouldnt even know where to start modding them. Do you have any particular references that you favor (such as toolkits, etc)?

There's a 500 page book I happen to like with a bunch of utilities & addons on the included CD.... with the many engine ports out there it's best to check out the engine's site for any custom specifics. IE, for zdoom:
Zdoom.org

I prefer modding Q2 to Q1 or 3 myself. Some of the stuff it just loading up the code & diving in. The q1/2 assets are kind of a lost art. Most of the tutorials went away when fox/ign/gamespy dumped all the hosted site on the planet network. I think there's some Q2 tut's here (I should make some up). but the Q1/2/3 model format is an open format, most editors have plugins to read/write them.

Gibberstein wrote: The line between modding and indie games is pretty thoroughly blurred now, to the point that the difference is nonexistent until you are ready to release.

I'd say the line's easy to see: are you using a game as a base? Even that mechwarrior mod used crysis's stuff as a base. Plus mods don't have engine changes (even if they are standalone. IE Gloom or D-Day Normandy. both work with a stock Q2 client or as standalone, both 100% compatible).