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| And yet still they whine and complain... | Locked | |
| Thread Options | 1 2 | |
| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
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Ok people, let's try again - no implied hostility with the caps, ... - If you cross the North Korean border illegally, you'll get 12 years herd labor. A job, a drivers license, a Social Security card, Welfare, Food Stamps, Credit Cards, Subsidized housing and/or a loan to buy a house, a free education, free Health care, a Lobbyist in Washington D.C., billions of dollars worth of public documents printed in your native language, the Right to carry your own national flag while protesting that you don't get enough ethnic rights or respect and in many areas of the U.S. you can vote. " Whew " ! And we, the American citizens pay for it all. So what's wrong with this system ? Everything ! It's all nonsense. Edited by: jjawinte |
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
Yes, for the most part. I'm not going to bother re-writing the whole thing so as to look clever. -- " It's only gaming after all - keep it in perspective. " |
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Oct 2 2010 Anchor | |
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Could you have least removed all the caps? :p -- °w° |
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Oct 2 2010 Anchor | |
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I'd go for a romantic weekend in Saudi / Iran or China :p But no, it's completely non-factual. It's one of those ridiculous anti-immigrant things that circulates. Edited by: ambershee |
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
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Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Sound familiar |
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
Exactly "ambershee " ! It's all right wing bullshit and exaggerations to further inflame and perpetuate racial ignorance and prejudice in this country. Yes, other countries have different border and immigration policies. To base an opinion on a few of the most radical examples is ridiculous, yet the constant media blitzing of this nonsense by these parties is exactly what most American people are willing to do. They're pathetic sheep all too happy to let someone else think for them ! The author of this " text " is employing the same propaganda tactics as many of the listed countries above use ( and it's worked so well for them, eh ) and worse yet, decent intelligent people are eating it up in their attempt to blame someone - anyone, for the current state of the American nation and of the world as a whole. The ability to incite hatred, distrust and fear is a truly a far too long overused power. Edited by: jjawinte |
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
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I welcome anyone who wants to come here. You can't own land, you can only claim it. If some of our fellow human beings make the journey here for a better life, then they should be given the same opprotunities we receive. Edited by: NGS616 |
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Oct 2 2010 Anchor | |
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Machete is after them! --
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
Well they would be able to read this if they were even able to get near New York..
Machete + Desperado = Don't fuck with Mexicans with guns and knives. Nothing more badass than a Gituar case rocket launcher Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP |
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Oct 2 2010 Anchor | |
The first...probably not unless you're illegally hired for unskilled labor. The second and third, no, you won't "get" those. The fourth and fifth require the third. The sixth I don't see the problem with since this would be a private company providing credit, able to provide credit to you anywhere the card itself is accepted thus illegally immigrating is irrelevant. Seventh requires the third, again, and a loan requires a huge amount of information and data which they simply do not possess, and any federal loans require the third. Eighth I similarly do not see the problem with since you're talking about education minors who are brought with family members to a new location; I certainly do not want children to be denied an education due to circumstances they cannot control, and someone educated in America will return far more in terms of productivity than our cost in taxes. Ninth I only wish was entirely truthful since early treatment costs extremely less than emergency care, and when you cannot afford to pay and/or fear deportation you wait until medical care is extremely necessary, but the vast majority of free care is for children, which I reiterate not denying due to circumstances beyond their control, with regards to vaccinations and immunizations which we all benefit from. Actually for the ninth if health care were simply easy to obtain we would see far more uninsured or underinsured Americans taking advantage of a necessity for a productive, enjoyable life. The tenth should exist when a system utilizes lobbyists anyway since folks should be concerned about our immigration policy either way. Lobbyists are trying for harsher penalties, greater enforcement, etc., others are trying for greater protections, more open immigration policy, and further, while still others are working all throughout. Similar to the justice system, if we had people who were not advocating for all sides I would be concerned about the fairness of decisions rendered (still am, but I would be more concerned). The eleventh I still fail to see a problem (though I question if you or the mass fearmongering email actually has any knowledge of where to begin to find the numbers to determine how much printing on other languages costs, much less actually has such numbers to say "billions") since we are talking about policy which is necessary to understand. Most Americans who natively speak English do not comprehend important documents for loans, contracts, or government documents all the same, thus we may as well print them in other languages to help comprehension. The twelfth...are you suggesting you think people should only be allowed to carry the United States flag or a state flag in protest? You realize this is infringing upon a few aspects of the First Amendment, right? If you cannot respect a few fundamental concepts which this country was founded upon I fail to see why you are concerned with what happens to this country. And the thirteenth, no, they cannot vote for a reason mentioned multiple times before. The fraud they need to commit to get a social security card is not exactly simple and not easily done by an extensively impoverished population. Besides, we're America. This should count for something, at least amongst Americans. |
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
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@ Vangor - Excellent information in your comment ! As I mentioned above, this is text from an E-Mail forwarded to me by someone from a generation who actually believes this nonsensical rhetoric. I myself do not and lobby against it. You've shown quite astutely just how easy is to differentiate flat out lies and bullshit from real-world facts and policy if you, as an American citizen, are simply willing to take the time to learn, for yourself, the basics of some of the actual regulations and policies within which our governmental system operates in regard to this topic. No college degree required - simply some factual information. That's where things begin to become grey. I hate to say it - and perhaps someone could correct me if you feel I'm wrong - but a steadily increasing number of Americans have grown disenchanted with our governmental system to the point of complete apathy for it. Day after day, whether it's scandals, lies, world policies gone wrong, party bashing, or the flavor of the day; with the media blatantly spinning nearly everything into a stew of sensationalized misinformation and misdirection, the truth has become unintelligible from the non-truths. It's simply become far too much of a disappointing effort to even bother with. Much easier to settle for the wagon that sounds best to you and jump on. C'mon, look at some of the most popular media figures ( and sources of the so called facts ) - Glenn Beck, ( who's as crazy as a shit-house rat ) and Rush Limbaugh who's no better on or off narcotics. Comedy Central's, John Stewart maybe ? The major news networks all serve their own agendas and parties openly as well. Aside from the pathetic entertainment value ( if you happen to be high at the time ), it's all self serving propagandistic trash. The only people who believe any of it are from the " please lead me " clan like the ass who wrote the text I initially referenced and that number continues to grow... America is rapidly becoming a seriously disillusioned and damaged nation of people who are finding the lies far easier to believe than what is loosely refered to as the truth. Edited by: jjawinte |
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| Oct 2 2010 Anchor | ||
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DEY TERK ARE JYABS |
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Oct 2 2010 Anchor | |
So let me get this straight ... you quote one of those mass forwarded emails mostly made by the ignorant knowing full well they are wrong. Stir everyone up that read the post. Then hop over to the other side and focus their anger towards republicans in general? Does anyone else see how ridiculous this is? If I held up a sock puppet and made the puppet say "All black people enjoy chicken and watermelon!" And then turned around and said (as myself) "Hush! That's totally uncool sock puppet! how dare you say such racist things" ... ... Would everyone start bickering about sock puppets being racist and wrong? This post was merely a vehicle to upset people and focus the anger on republicans ... I absolutely hate politics for reasons like this ... Left wing, right wing ... doesn't fucking matter ... they both try to find the biggest idiots of each other's parties and then put them in the spotlight as if they are the best people to represent the entire party ... Edited by: Assaultman67 |
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| Oct 3 2010 Anchor | ||
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Honestly, do we want the jobs that the immigrants are taking anyways? Apparently a lot people in America want to be a gardener or farmer but them dang Mexicans keep stealing them jobs from under us Americans! Not that I support illegals entering our country... I'm Hispanic. I'm just saying they should fill out the paperwork and pay their dues just like the rest of us!
Hey, I happen to like both Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. We need more cynical people like them! I know they are crazy and sometimes like to exaggerate the details... but most of what they say I agree with! Edited by: Rawket |
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| Oct 3 2010 Anchor | ||
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OK, so not everyone appreciates my method of delivery. Tough. I'm using the opening text for addressing the information we receive, it's delivery vehicle(s) and it's effects. I never once referred to the " Republicans " or any party specifically and I couldn't care less about either party. If your making an association, feel free, but don't waste your time telling me how I am. I know quite clearly what I'm attempting to say. I don't have any love or hatred for any party in particular and usually avoid politics completely because of the theme I'm attempting to address here. If the method I'm i'm using is too obtuse, then I guess the " Assaultman " is right...it must be ridiculous because it's not clear enough for everyone at the same time. I'm a great fan of good sarcasm myself " Rawket ", but not when it's employed as an entertainment platform for inflating and perpetuating the problem. Enjoy whoever you want, It's America ! -- " It's only gaming after all - keep it in perspective. " |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
I feel exactly the same was as ngs616 here. I also can't help but think that most of these people who are so incredibly anti-immigrant would also be the ones who were against giving blacks' freedoms and the right to vote. They are the mindless sheep who look for someone to tell them what to believe so they hear someone banging off about illegal immigrants and suddenly where you had a neutral shell without any opinion in the matter this person also feels like immigrants are ruining this country and are responsible for all of our current issues. For some reason these people can't remember the incredibly ironic fact that our ancestors MIGRATED here "illegally" from another country to make what they felt was a better life for themselves. I can't understand how these same whackos can preach about their "true" America being robbed from them by these immigrants when the constitution that was created during the birth of America clearly supports immigration? Or how they can pick and choose which amendments they like and which ones to utterly ignore? Though I guess these same people probably pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow or skip over. I just find it pretty disgusting how many people are openly discriminating against against most hispanics in this country right now, assuming they all came to be here be hopping the fence between here and Mexico or that they are somehow not worthy to be in this country at all because they are "ruining" it. Fucking idiots. Edited by: Tokoya |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
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I think that most people are upset with the fact that they are dodging taxes ... Generally if you get a job in another country you have to pay taxes to that country ... If Illegal immigrants payed taxes I'd have no problem at all with Illegal immigration. However I don't really have any other issues with Illegal immigrants (generally they get stuck with such shitty jobs its hard to envy them) ... And those same people are being used by others to propel their business forward so they can make a much larger profit ... |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
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The US has always said one thing and done another, just like every other nation. So when you hear the poem of the new colossus (give me your tired, your poor, etc) that was written in a contest for a prize, not a declaration of our stance on immigration. The majority vote rules the land and depending on which group of people hold the most votes will get what they want; whether it be operation wetback or open borders. You may disagree you may be thrilled, but it's democracy in action for better or for worse. -- Rawr.. |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
Except that it doesn't, because the US voting system is skewed to allow some people's votes count more than others. |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
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I guess you're talking about Electoral College, and how it gives 'swing states' an advantage in the presidential election? Well, I think most people in the US have come to realize that presidents are nothing more than faceman; someone to give a voice to the bloated bureaucracy we have. And that doesn't play much of a role in legislation, only massive people screaming for their opinion to matter more than the other guy wins the day. And It's not because their right by any means, it's just that politic are a business and politicians want to target the largest market. Youtube Ron Paul for some refreshing political views. -- Rawr.. |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
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Might as well ask: what's wrong with deomcracy? Nothing much, except that banks and the industrial complex get to vote these days. The people demonstrating and burning or waving flags are not important to those who sit in their ivory towers. Considering that 1% of the US citizens own more than 37% of the countries wealth a huge imbalance between rich and poor is building. The much praised middle-class will seize to exist, or exist by making debt only. The slave got shelter from his owner, he got food and clothing and life-long employment. The modern middle class man has to find all of these himself, so by that logic a slave's life was better. Money is the crucial factor. The bait has to be tasty for the fish, not for the fisherman. And we all so readily believe that having money will cure us of our problems, or at least make us indifferent about the rest of the world's problems. As long as debt is the only way to produce money and there is no real value to our work, we will lack the satisfaction of accomplishing something in life that cannot be taken away by the banks or the next economical crisis. All these values that were mentioned in the mail you quoted derive from a long struggle for democracy. However that struggle is rendered useless when it prohibts us from building a better society. As long as profit-maximization and the concerns of the shareholders outweigh any reason and sustainability all of these deomcratic values aren't worth what they look like on paper. --
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| Oct 3 2010 Anchor | ||
I think you've really hit on one of the greatest factors in the effort to misinform Americans about immigration as a whole. Tax revenue. An easy sore spot to manipulate. There's always been some a amount of angst against illegals and migrant workers taking work away from citizens, but no one really wanted or needed to do that type of work anyway, so a little prejudice and grumbling about it was enough. Given the current economical situation here in the states - record unemployment, the recession and the steadily increasing tax rates at every level among many others - immigrants are easy targets for the brunt of our anger and disgust at the government and the wealthy. So many people are on the "Protect our Borders " and " Deportation " bandwagons, angrily rallying and protesting while the Ivory towers are filled with much snickering and smiling. ( Sinking summarizes the imbalance of wealth and power quite well in his comment ) Those in positions of power know as well as we do that immigrants had nothing to do with causing the current issues of recession, massive unemployment, our crumbling economy or military conflicts. But they serve as a wonderfully convenient distraction and focus of attention if executed properly - and it has been quite masterfully done. Spin, spin, spin ! Immigrants are now coming to the states with hopes of building a better life, just as it has been for the citizens of many nations for well over a century. The finite number of them who's activities actually perpetuate the prejudicial stereotypes warrant attention and should be properly dealt with, yes. The other 99% deserve the same compassions, respects and opportunities that allowed this country to become so wonderfully diverse in culture are hard working and supporting families same as we are. In my opinion, they are unjustly being targeted by the media and various wealthy interest groups as a convenient scapegoat for the frustrations and fears of the American people who just want straight answers and viable reassurance from those we've elected to do so. Edited by: jjawinte |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
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I have to wonder if the US loosened it's immigration laws a little, if the problem with illegal immigrants would indeed be such a problem. |
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| Oct 3 2010 Anchor | ||
I haven't heard one person say they would have any issues if all the illegals became legal & got the shaft like everyone else who's legal. Plus, it's not like they took any jobs away: people don't want to do the jobs they're doing. That's economics: don't want a to go plant trees/pick beans/etc, then you do it. simple as that! Make those stpuid HS & college kids work the crappy jobs instead of Wally World & McDonalds & then (nothing magic about it at all) the illegals doing all the crappy jobs go home and work in THEIR country doing crappy jobs and improve THEIR country so some day WE could go there & do the crappy jobs illegally! In Canada they don't allow ANY non-Canadians to attend their schools or work their jobs unless you have special permission. Canadians ALWAYS get first dibs and any Canadian will always take precedence over any non-Canadaian for any job/school. What sucks is that any Canadian that wants to learn/work in the US just needs a work/school visa & they can. Like all those Canadian doctors who say their medical system is better & the US puts to much $$ in to it: they're taking US tax/health $$ to fund Canada. If a US person did that to it would be illegal. But any of you EU peeps out there should really keep your mouth shut about anything the US does wrong: last I recall the EU's in one dandy of a pickle & they only have them selves to blame. Noone coming illegally over the Greece or Spain to "steal" your jobs & healthcare $$. All your own stupid $$ handling. So your solution to the US is to let everyone in but I don't see Germany telling everybody from France to come on over & enjoy their wealth w/o contributing. Everything coming from that side of the table is nothing but hypocrisy.
That would be like saying if moddb.com allowed hard core porn in the forums the moderators wouldn't have to look for porn in the threads. Or if Valve eliminated the VAC then there's be no problem with cheaters. Don't see why any country should have lower standards then a gaming website. Heck, NOBODY bitches Germany eliminates all Nazi stuff from their culture. Especially the Germans: they see it as necessary. Edited by: TheHappyFriar |
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Oct 3 2010 Anchor | |
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@TheHappyFriar You are aware that's exactly how it works in the EU? Freedom of movement. You can buy a house in Spain, pack your bags in the UK, and live there next week, with almost no questions asked. The moment you own a house in Spain, you then start paying into the spanish tax system - when you start working you start paying into it some more. You can enrol your children in a spanish school without much difficulty. The issue with illegal immigrants comes from people who can't enter the country legally. If they can't do that, they can't legally get a job, own property or legally pay into the tax system. It's not like people come across the border and then somehow survive without somewhere to live, or some means of earning a wage. That said, people complain about Poles and other eastern Europeans coming to the UK and 'taking our jobs'. The reality was that they were actually filling vacancies that noone in the UK was willingly taking up, such as vegetable picking. A number of British people interviewed not that long ago (who were on state benefits for unemployment) apparently considered the work 'beneath them'. |
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