A question about Oil Thread

I wasn't really aware that anybody has successfully built a reactor that gets positive returns (more energy comes out than what is initially put in to start the reaction ... ive heard stuff like 60% returns ... but nothing actually over 100%

also i thought they kinda gave up on making "cold fusion" work ... most the fusion people do i think is just with really small amounts so when the heat is dissipated into the surrounding system it doesn't melt everyone's faces off

All of these attempts to make natural energy will not be able to replace oil, (at least in the present) is the main point I am attempting to get across.  The ideas of each of these.. solar, nuclear, wind, water, etc are all great but for many cannot replace petroleum due to things such as financial burdens, investments (many months worth of a car leased) and the incredible cost of the new fuel cars such as hydrogen (which takes almost 2x more energy to make then it outputs) electric cars, the air compressed car, and even hybrids (though they have gone down in cost). 

The short term solution is indeed oil.  This is inevitable, and the ONLY thing we can change is who the money goes to by voicing our opinions and amounting support for Oil Shale extraction.  The choice is either to shell out ever rising amounts of money to OPEC, or start giving less amounts to our own government which will benefit indefinitely.

Edited by: cheeseyballz

"Necessity is the mother of invention." -Plato

That's why i think oil should be taxed and heavy restrictions should be put on the access of new oil deposits ...

Yes, all we need is that next hit of crack oil and then we will be fine ... In this case the short term solution makes the long term solution even harder to accept!

But prolonging the present discomfort at the expense of our future happens all the time in the U.S. ... so why not continue that lifestyle? ... has anybody heard of TARP? the social security crisis? How about all those people who took out loans for cars, houses, and other stuff they cant afford?

The use of oil i think should be considered a cultural addiction ... nothing would be solved by accessing that oil ... it would only make the rut we're in deeper and thus harder to get out of ... by not allowing ourselves the access to that oil we are providing ourselves with motivation to find an alternative source of power ...

And yes, its going to suck ... but it's for our own good (well, for our children's future) ...

In general, i think the entire US population needs to man the fuck up and start taking responsibility for the crap they pulled (making bad loans, using expensive modes of transportation) believe it or not but alot of these problems the goverment is dealing with is occuring because the US population has absolutely no discipline when it comes to finance ...

... when i was in high school ... i had a dog that would run around during the summer and barked alot when he got thirsty ... so i would get a ice cream bucket and fill it to the brim with water and put it down in the shade for him to drink ... he would then drink some of the water, knock over the bucket, and then chew on it ... 3 hours later he would be thirsty again ... I remember asking my dad why he did that and he told me "What separates us from other animals is our ability of self restraint in preparation for the future."

Edited by: Assaultman67

Isn't life just a continued process of acceleration? Think about how long it took for the first bacteria to evolve from the puddle of primordial soup. Somewhere down the line were fish eaten by bigger fish and then some fish crawled away to the shores and started living on the land. The faster we consumed life the faster it grew into new forms and eventually was nearly wiped out by a giant comet's impact. Somehow life sustained itself be eating up other life and in the end it came down to man, who can eat up all other species and consume all energy, which is what we are doing to date.
In this whole struggle we learned to stop chasing after what we sought and started producing it ourselves. Alchemy wanted to create gold from inferior metal. Today we can do that, though it costs more energy than is worth the produce. Everything has an energy balance. Every time the cells in our body renew the telemeres at the end of the dna strand becomes shorter, until the cells are unable to reproduce and we die. I feel like Earth is an organism, which can renew itself like the cells in our body, but given infinitely longer time. We can't predict how long the balance will hold and all we do is accelerate the process of life itself. It is like a rush and we won't stop until there is nothing left to waste. What seems like Alchemy to us today, may well be the only solution left for mankind to break the circle. We could learn to live off different energies. We'd have to change life itself and stop feeding on it. I don't know how this can be done, unless by discovering new sources of energy. The old ones will be depleted in a matter of time and moderation is not suggested by the way we live today.

Again, that is off the topic of if shale oil should be allowed to be extracted.  Simply for the current times, making Shale Oil legal could be a huge economic boost to the U.S.  First off, it would supply trillions more into the government on top of their current revenue.  Readings all around keep telling stories about how the up coming generation will be paying back the deficit for the next decades, but why not make that unnecessary?  I personally would rather see the money we spend on oil funnled to the U.S. government rather then OPEC, and various other countries who dislike the U.S. 

Now, as I said before there are a few factors which make the oil we get across seas even more polluting than shale.  The transportation for one.  If anyone is curious look up how much gas oil tankers eat up.  Having pipelines and refineries in the spot where it's extracted to the coasts would save extremely large amounts of gas. 

The point that I am trying to get across is that the U.S. and the rest of the world is in NO economic position currently to forcibly switch all cars to all these 'green' ideas, and neither are the people.  For the time being, Shale oil may be the only way to get oil to a reasonable price.  A few things I think is that a compromise could be reached by these ignorant and radical environmentalists, would be to make a certain % of the money gained from Shale used for researching clean energy.  The current amount of money spent on clean energy is insufficient in my opinion and will not get higher, only lower due to Americas economic state. 

Going 'cold turkey' on oil would have irreparable consequences.

theres no point in wind power, its just a dynamo pushed by the wind, if you have a 100ft dynamo you can use an electric motor to spin it, even a 10ft dynamos for hospitals, silos and moonbases

I will be flat out honest and tell you that even if gas goes up in price then I will still be using gas cars.  The whole point of these 'eco' cars is to make it so that it's a cheaper alternative to gasoline.  Unfortunately none of them are except for the electric cars.  The electric cars are a wonderful idea, and quite truthfully ALL the 'eco' cars will be more expensive then normal combustion engine cars because the technology inside them is way more expensive to create.  It is the same concept with computers.  At one point computers were so expensive that you would pay upwards of 2,000 dollars for a laptop.  Now a days you can go to best buy and buy a basic one for 299 dollars.  Eco cars are wonderful, and until they have the capability of massively producing these new advanced cars at an affordable price, the average person is never going to be able to afford them.  You have to look at the issue of gas prices through the eyes of an average person.  Another thing you forget that EACH American household uses  either 1,000 gallons of oil to heat their houses a year or more!  If you stopped using oil you would have to use electric power to heat your house which is even more inefficient and costly than oil. 

Everything has reprecussions, and the use of pure electric power would be absolutely stupid, because you would have to use a similar amount of oil just to produce enough electric power to heat the houses and to charge the newly purchased electric cars.  A lot of people say "Lets use windmills yeah!" however in New York, Long island specifically that is literally impossible.  I will provide you with reasons as to why this is impossible and will not be able to be done until the government intervenes with the waterfront home owners association or w/e it's called on LI. 

The people who live on the water on long island have property that alone is worth over half a million dollars.  Almost ALL waterfront homes go for over 750,000 regardless of size.  Within the last years a proposed and funded project to build one of the largest wind farms was put forth, but shot down by the people who live in these waterfront homes.  On LI for example if you live on the water you are either extremely wealthy or rich.  They do not need clean energy because they can pay for almost what ever price it goes up to.  They refused to have the windmills allowed to be installed miles and miles offshore because they felt it blocked their 'views'.  Because of selfish bastards such as these wind power is not an option.  Solar power is a great source, but not for where I live either because of the 1/3 rainy days we have.  That's just an example of where I live, and I'm sure others have the same opinions in other places around the world.

Edited by: cheeseyballz

There is some truth to what you are saying, however  the fact that Shale oil exists and is being hidden by the environmentalists, (who are truthfully doing all they can to hide it from the general public) and this in turn makes it seem as if there is a dire need for oil based on the actual supply available running out, which it isn't because Shale Oil can provide enough for hundreds more years even at the rising use. 

Currently there are some groups forming that will be bringing the Shale Oil information to the masses and a few I already have looked into.  With their intentions and the average citizen viewing the idea of using the Shale Oil, I believe that it will be the next viable source of oil within the next 5-10 years.  Due to the fact that extracting it in the enviornmentally friendly ways takes a few years to do, (and actually does little to no damage to the surface only some well holes) also they provide more oil per ton then the old ways they experimented with.  Once the information becomes largely known by the American public I am almost 100% confident that the overwhelming support it will gain based on the very few ignorant environmentalists that exist, it will become Americas next big thing.